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Post by anthony on Jan 11, 2024 4:38:27 GMT
Been listening to Hollies singing a few CSN in concerts, gee the harmonies are so beautiful, got me thinking if Nash was still in the Hollies and did some his songs what success they many have had, then I think maybe because the Hollies may of be consider an oldies band maybe not.
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Post by Mevrouw Bee on Jan 11, 2024 10:01:55 GMT
This is why I always thought Nash leaving was more personal than "they wouldn't record my songs"--his songwriting (unlike Clarke's) never really evolved after leaving the Hollies. I think he had starry eyes for the "cool kids" in America, including Joni, of course. But no CSN hit (of which Nash wrote most of them, the deeper album cuts were by Crosby and Stills) would have been out of place in the Hollies' catalogue. And the live version of "Wasted On The Way" on Archive Alive always puts a lump in my throat that the CSN hit doesn't.
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Post by baz on Jan 11, 2024 12:52:54 GMT
This is why I always thought Nash leaving was more personal than "they wouldn't record my songs"--his songwriting (unlike Clarke's) never really evolved after leaving the Hollies. Agreed. He hit a hot streak in 1966-1968 then after that just ambled along blandly and complacently. Coke habits have a tendency to result in blandness and that whole LA scene of the 70's produced so much slick bland wallpaper muzak in the name of "rock" I can't abide it and CSN and co were amongst the worst offenders. There's a wonderful moment in a 1972 edition of the "Old Grey Whistle Test" where a track from Crosby and Nash's album is played and at the end of it, original host Richard Williams declares " Some of you may disagree, but I think they're a perfect cure for chronic insomnia". I don't dislike his first 2 solo albums but the rest of his post Hollies work with and without CSN+Y I don't care for at all which is a shame as his voice was always solid. Allan's songs grew much more personal once Graham was gone and feel more "honest" to my ears so I find his solo work more satisfying than Graham's. |
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Post by Mevrouw Bee on Jan 12, 2024 9:56:21 GMT
This is why I always thought Nash leaving was more personal than "they wouldn't record my songs"--his songwriting (unlike Clarke's) never really evolved after leaving the Hollies. Agreed. He hit a hot streak in 1966-1968 then after that just ambled along blandly and complacently. Coke habits have a tendency to result in blandness and that whole LA scene of the 70's produced so much slick bland wallpaper muzak in the name of "rock" I can't abide it and CSN and co were amongst the worst offenders. There's a wonderful moment in a 1972 edition of the "Old Grey Whistle Test" where a track from Crosby and Nash's album is played and at the end of it, original host Richard Williams declares " Some of you may disagree, but I think they're a perfect cure for chronic insomnia". I don't dislike his first 2 solo albums but the rest of his post Hollies work with and without CSN+Y I don't care for at all which is a shame as his voice was always solid. Allan's songs grew much more personal once Graham was gone and feel more "honest" to my ears so I find his solo work more satisfying than Graham's. All this. Simon Napier Bell's theory that the drug in fashion dictated the music was never so apt as it was between 1964 to the late 70s. From barbituates to pot to LSD to coke... |
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Post by peterc on Jan 12, 2024 10:12:01 GMT
There's a similar drug-related theory to '50s Rock 'n' Roll, with the black rhythm 'n' blues arists smoking dope and the white rockabillies taking speed.
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Post by Mevrouw Bee on Jan 12, 2024 14:29:15 GMT
There's a similar drug-related theory to '50s Rock 'n' Roll, with the black rhythm 'n' blues arists smoking dope and the white rockabillies taking speed. Speed kept the Beatles going throughout their tenure in Hamburg... |
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Post by cameron on Jan 13, 2024 14:25:41 GMT
This is why I always thought Nash leaving was more personal than "they wouldn't record my songs"--his songwriting (unlike Clarke's) never really evolved after leaving the Hollies. I think he had starry eyes for the "cool kids" in America, including Joni, of course. But no CSN hit (of which Nash wrote most of them, the deeper album cuts were by Crosby and Stills) would have been out of place in the Hollies' catalogue. And the live version of "Wasted On The Way" on Archive Alive always puts a lump in my throat that the CSN hit doesn't. You've surmised my thoughts entirely here. I actually think the Hollies harmonies on 'Wasted On The Way' sound better than CSN's; there's more depth to them and the three distinct voices blend really well. I think it speaks volumes that the Hollies can improve a CSN song by singing it, but CSNY couldn't improve a Hollies song (see 'Man With No Expression'). Graham took a lot of his best post-Hollies stuff with him to CSN, but large chunks of his early contributions and solo material from his debut album were written when he was with the Hollies. I think he needed the competitiveness from Allan and Tony to thrive, much in the same way that John and Paul needed each other in the Beatles. Sure, they were all capable of writing great songs on their own, but they shone brightest when they worked together. Ironically, I think the songwriter that really blossomed when Graham left was Allan. Even now, Allan's songwriting (when he's not wandering off down a country/skiffle tangent) is so much stronger than Graham's. 'It Makes Me Cry' with Carla Olson is just sublime, even in its 7-minute epic album format. I'm not surprised it's climbing the Heritage Charts as we speak, so many weeks on from its release. The lyrics are pure poetry and really make you think and engage with them. I particularly loved his comeback single 'Journey Of Regret', a song I'm still picking apart five years on. I don't think Allan gets the recognition he deserves at all as a songwriter. Even 'Long Cool Woman' is the most wonderful vivid story that is so evocative through his choice of words and yet still remains open to interpretation. |
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Post by Mevrouw Bee on Jan 14, 2024 8:49:11 GMT
This is why I always thought Nash leaving was more personal than "they wouldn't record my songs"--his songwriting (unlike Clarke's) never really evolved after leaving the Hollies. I think he had starry eyes for the "cool kids" in America, including Joni, of course. But no CSN hit (of which Nash wrote most of them, the deeper album cuts were by Crosby and Stills) would have been out of place in the Hollies' catalogue. And the live version of "Wasted On The Way" on Archive Alive always puts a lump in my throat that the CSN hit doesn't. You've surmised my thoughts entirely here. I actually think the Hollies harmonies on 'Wasted On The Way' sound better than CSN's; there's more depth to them and the three distinct voices blend really well. I think it speaks volumes that the Hollies can improve a CSN song by singing it, but CSNY couldn't improve a Hollies song (see 'Man With No Expression'). Graham took a lot of his best post-Hollies stuff with him to CSN, but large chunks of his early contributions and solo material from his debut album were written when he was with the Hollies. I think he needed the competitiveness from Allan and Tony to thrive, much in the same way that John and Paul needed each other in the Beatles. Sure, they were all capable of writing great songs on their own, but they shone brightest when they worked together. Ironically, I think the songwriter that really blossomed when Graham left was Allan. Even now, Allan's songwriting (when he's not wandering off down a country/skiffle tangent) is so much stronger than Graham's. 'It Makes Me Cry' with Carla Olson is just sublime, even in its 7-minute epic album format. I'm not surprised it's climbing the Heritage Charts as we speak, so many weeks on from its release. The lyrics are pure poetry and really make you think and engage with them. I particularly loved his comeback single 'Journey Of Regret', a song I'm still picking apart five years on. I don't think Allan gets the recognition he deserves at all as a songwriter. Even 'Long Cool Woman' is the most wonderful vivid story that is so evocative through his choice of words and yet still remains open to interpretation. The lyrics to LCW were Roger Cook's, weren't they? Clarke did the music for that? |
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Post by peterc on Jan 14, 2024 9:01:18 GMT
I must be one of the few Hollies fans who's not that keen on LCW. To me it's just a CCR pastiche (a band largely specialised in pastiches of Little Richard, early Elvis, etc themselves). I can perfectly understand Ron Richards' lack of enthusiasm for the song.
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Post by rokinrobinoflocksley on Jan 16, 2024 15:52:14 GMT
I always thought it would have been kool if John Fogerty had performed Long Cool Woman live on his concert tours, ha. And Allan swapped with him to do a CCR tune.
Also wishing Neil Young would have performed America's "A Horse With No Name"...
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Post by peterc on Jan 17, 2024 7:04:58 GMT
I always thought it would have been kool if John Fogerty had performed Long Cool Woman live on his concert tours, ha. And Allan swapped with him to do a CCR tune. Also wishing Neil Young would have performed America's "A Horse With No Name"... I'd like to have heard The Dave Clark Five tackle The Sir Douglas Quintet's 'She's About A Mover'! |
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Post by Mevrouw Bee on Jan 17, 2024 9:50:41 GMT
I always thought it would have been kool if John Fogerty had performed Long Cool Woman live on his concert tours, ha. And Allan swapped with him to do a CCR tune. Also wishing Neil Young would have performed America's "A Horse With No Name"... Kind of like how the Who used to perform "Shakin' All Over" because North Americans got them mixed up with the Guess Who? |
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Post by baz on Jan 17, 2024 13:29:04 GMT
Kind of like how the Who used to perform "Shakin' All Over" because North Americans got them mixed up with the Guess Who? It always pleases me on old live tapes when I hear Roger Daltrey pointing out they were covering Johnny Kidd which was true but likely had some audiences wondering who the mighty Kidd was. So it was cool The Who kept Johnny's memory alive by way of recognising his importance and influence. |
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Post by moorlock2003 on Jan 18, 2024 7:11:39 GMT
I recall writer Ken Barnes’ review of the Romany album in Phonograph Record Magazine. He said the band’s harmonies admittedly now sounded like CSN’s but “Where in the hell did CSN get their harmony sound from anyway but The Hollies, who were always better at it and still are”. I couldn’t have said it better myself.
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Post by dirtyfaz on Jan 18, 2024 8:18:35 GMT
Have a listen to LCW on the 83 Reunion CD. An extended LCW with Johnny Kidd's Shakin' All Over in it. The Hollies did a great version of Johnny B Goode from their NZ tour component of their 83 NZ/OZ tour but without Nash. That is around if you search for it.
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Post by moorlock2003 on Jan 20, 2024 7:33:03 GMT
I must be one of the few Hollies fans who's not that keen on LCW. To me it's just a CCR pastiche (a band largely specialised in pastiches of Little Richard, early Elvis, etc themselves). I can perfectly understand Ron Richards' lack of enthusiasm for the song. Horsefeathers |
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