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Post by anthony on Dec 29, 2022 20:57:55 GMT
Hi all, I saw the new Abbey Road Doc, I was really looking forward to seeing the Hollies part with Tony and Bob, firstly don't blink or you will miss it. It was about Elton Johns piano part. I was hoping it was going to be about their great memories of all those years recording and the songs they did there. No its a moment of Elton. then Elton says something like you can tell that's me, it's my style, hey no the Hollies song was brilliant, great working with them, nothing. Let down.
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Post by sandy on Dec 30, 2022 9:22:11 GMT
Sadly, all too predictable.A ' luvvie' fest for the usual high profile socialites'.....What a missed opportunity. The actors here have a society clique,and so do the musos.....
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Post by Tony Wilkinson on Dec 30, 2022 9:50:06 GMT
Sadly, all too predictable.A ' luvvie' fest for the usual high profile socialites'.....What a missed opportunity. The actors here have a society clique,and so do the musos..... Same usual suspects that rock up on Jonathan Ross or Graham Norton shows ..never an Allan Clarke or a Tony Hicks ..... |
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Post by Mevrouw Bee on Dec 30, 2022 13:53:51 GMT
"If These Walls Could Sing..." I suspect the "Usual Suspects" wouldn't like what they have to say because it wouldn't be all about them.
I saw the photos of the premiere party and I lost interest after that. Did they even ask the boys or have they been forgotten since the 1990s?
I assume not even Graham was part of it?
Not that anyone cares except us...which says it all really...
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Post by Stranger on Dec 30, 2022 16:53:29 GMT
I thought an Abbey Road documentary would HAVE to use some of the On A Carousel recording footage...
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Post by thejanitor on Dec 31, 2022 14:17:24 GMT
Don't get me wrong, as much as us hardcore Hollies fans are probably sick of Elton's piano on Heavy being repeatedly brought up in interviews, I imagine it could still be new info for some viewers of this doc. However, to make that Bobby and Tony's only anecdote is very dissapointing, as I'm pretty sure The Hollies spent much more time recording at Abbey Road during its peak era of the 60s and 70s than Elton did during those years.
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Post by sandy on Dec 31, 2022 17:34:42 GMT
Don't get me wrong, as much as us hardcore Hollies fans are probably sick of Elton's piano on Heavy being repeatedly brought up in interviews, I imagine it could still be new info for some viewers of this doc. However, to make that Bobby and Tony's only anecdote is very dissapointing, as I'm pretty sure The Hollies spent much more time recording at Abbey Road during its peak era of the 60s and 70s than Elton did during those years. It's just like when they are interviewed and asked what it was like to be around at the same time as The Beatles all the time, as if their catalogue and experience isn't enough in its own right, and they have to mention ' referred' fame...š„“ |
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Post by baz on Dec 31, 2022 21:12:53 GMT
Don't get me wrong, as much as us hardcore Hollies fans are probably sick of Elton's piano on Heavy being repeatedly brought up in interviews, I imagine it could still be new info for some viewers of this doc. However, to make that Bobby and Tony's only anecdote is very dissapointing, as I'm pretty sure The Hollies spent much more time recording at Abbey Road during its peak era of the 60s and 70s than Elton did during those years. And whats the betting most viewers know who Elton is but may be thinking " who are The Hollies?" Is THAT how The Hollies are gonna be remembered? For being one of several bands that gave Elton some session work? Not seen the film and have zero interest in it as it was obvious from the word go what was gonna happen - The Beatles did everything and everybody else are just mere bit-parters. It's quite disappointing and damning as the story of Abbey Road is just as fascinating outside of The Beatles... so many legendary recordings were made there but now its nothing more than a shrine to The Beatles and most pop acts that go there now do so for the poseur factor, not because its a fine recording studio. Of course The Beatles put it on the world stage and made it immortal but to dismiss the amazing work made by a great many others there - inside and outside of the control room - is insulting but given how history keeps getting rewritten, sadly an inevitability. Oh well, won't be long before the inevitable 100th anniversary film about Abbey Road masquerading as yet another Beatles luv-fest. |
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Post by anthony on Dec 31, 2022 22:25:00 GMT
Don't get me wrong, as much as us hardcore Hollies fans are probably sick of Elton's piano on Heavy being repeatedly brought up in interviews, I imagine it could still be new info for some viewers of this doc. However, to make that Bobby and Tony's only anecdote is very dissapointing, as I'm pretty sure The Hollies spent much more time recording at Abbey Road during its peak era of the 60s and 70s than Elton did during those years. Funny a guy at work said to me that he didn't know Elton played on that that song, so as you say maybe it's more the fans that know. It was like we were so lucky to have young Elton play on our record, A real insult, I thought they would come back later and do a small bit on the Hollies, no it was for Elton. The whole show was ordinary unless you are a Paul McCartney fan, Hey you get to see Ringo's new hair piece. It wasn't hardly worth the trip to Abbey Road for Tony and Bobby's very short tribute to Elton. |
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Post by gee on Dec 31, 2022 22:47:01 GMT
Besides The Hollies...was there any mention of The Shadows at all ?
add up how many hits Hollies and Shadows (plus backing Cliff) had between them (at least that laughable Hall of Fame finally inducted The Hollies belatedly) and think how much work those artists did at Abbey Road...records they sold etc
yet normally such shows bleat on and on about The Beatles, solo Paul, Pink Floyd doing seemingly only 'Dark Side of The Moon' etc...and then it's quickly on into the 80's / 90's (when EMI began to fall apart) to praise up the more modern acts who recorded at Abbey Road
such shows are just as stated above indeed 'Luvvie' productions
re Elton John, did he actually do much recording in Abbey Road ? (maybe he did as a session player in the sixties)
his record company DJM then later his Rocket Records label were not under EMI's wing were they ? - he had begun as a solo artist on Philips label in the UK circa 1969 and their artists never used Abbey Road as far as I am aware, Dick James DJM Records were done via PYE Records to begin with I think...later Elton was away recording at Caribou Ranch (hence that album title) among other places often recording overseas I think....
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Post by gee on Dec 31, 2022 23:00:21 GMT
Re 'He Ain't Heavy' Bernie could play that piano part equally well, and did do many times thereafter
as for standout features... besides The Hollies performance it's more Johnny Scott's orchestration and the 'heavenly choir' of The Mike Sammes Singers (I believe it was) towards the conclusion that stand out more than the supporting piano part I feel - on the intro it's Allan's harmonica that really stands out
Elton had a more prominent piano feature later on 'I Can't Tell The Bottom From The Top' plus his organ on 'Perfect Lady Housewife' both in 1970
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Post by cameron on Jan 1, 2023 15:40:55 GMT
The fact that Elton John is so heavily involved in this documentary is very insulting to everyone else. Elton John didn't record at Abbey Road until 1976 when some orchestral sessions were done for his 'Blue Moves' album, which received mixed reviews at best. All his "core" early 1970s albums were recorded at Trident Studios or the infamous Chateau D'Herouville in France. He'd record again at Abbey Road for the also forgettable album 'The Fox' in 1981, but never recorded there again from what I can find out. So he recorded two album's worth of overdub sessions at Abbey Road and that's it. Arguably, his involvement with the Hollies at Abbey Road has had a significantly larger reach than his own material that was recorded there. Apart from being a union session man in the late 1960s and early 1970s, I can't see when else, if at all, he recorded anything significant at Abbey Road.Ā
But what did you expect? The documentary is directed by Mary McCartney and history has shown us that people who have a privileged route through the front door thanks to their parents aren't necessarily the best people for the job. How on EARTH could the 'On A Carousel' footage be forgotten about? Only that and Cilla's recording session for 'Alfie' with Burt Bacharach remain the only two surviving bits of footage of some actual recording going on of a big hit song at Abbey Road in the 1960s. All of the Beatles stuff (excepting the live 'All You Need Is Love' broadcast and also with the possible exception of the 'Hey Bulldog' session) was done for the cameras as George Martin didn't like filming occurring when they were actually recording. That Hollies footage is the only thing we have of a pop song being put together at Abbey Road, showing the basic set up, the microphones, sound screens etc... all up close. To find out that it wasn't part of the documentary has pretty much made my mind up to not watch it.Ā
It feels like, yet again, the Hollies get passed over because they're not perceived to be a "name" now. They've got so much to their credit, and the wider public definitely is still interested in the band. The live footage of them in 1970 that Reelin In The Years put an except up on YouTube last month already has over 100,000 views, with ALL the comments lauding how incredible the Hollies are, most really surprised at how they played live even better than they did in the studio. I've scrolled and scrolled and can't see a single bad thing said about the Hollies on that clip. I was watching the clip when a friend was over and he quipped "wow I didn't realise that all those songs were by the same band", which is a common theme with the Hollies. The interest is still there, their talent speaks for itself. Yet another missed opportunity in the Hollies' very frustratingly large catalogue of missed opportunities.Ā
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Post by gee on Jan 2, 2023 0:53:12 GMT
Good point about George Martin NOT wanting The Beatles filmed when actually recording (maybe because John Lennon got his OWN lyrics wrong so many times...??)
yet George WAS happy to just march in with his camera team on The Hollies as they were recording 'On A Carousel'...and as Bobby put it; 'stuck a camera up me nose whilst I'm playing...'
another thing strikes me re George Martin and HIM suggesting
'If I Needed Someone' to Ron Richards as possibly suitable for The Hollies to cover...
could GM not have tipped off George Harrison that it was HE who had suggested The Hollies cover the new song ? - in that way George Harrison at least would have had some foreknowledge he would likely be questioned about the song, the cover version, and "did he write it specifically for...?" etc (as DJ Brian Matthew likewise asked Paul re UK singer Frankie Vaughan's cover of 'Wait'- a clued up Paul replied 'No but if anyone wants to cover our songs that's fine by us...'- being extra money in the bank and more songwriting fame etc)
Had George Martin tipped off George Harrison maybe he would not then have been caught cold by writer Alan Smith
- and used his wits more !
so George Martin was not that helpful to The Hollies as maybe he might have been seeing they were a fellow EMI recording group
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Post by cameron on Jan 8, 2023 0:22:12 GMT
In the interest of being fair to my comments above, I gave the documentary a watch tonight.
I have to say, overall itās pretty well done and itās only fairly short at an hour and a half long, so you can perhaps understand the briefness of the Holliesā segment due to time constraints and they really do rattle through a LOT of significant recordings in this documentary. This point needs to be emphasised when taking any criticisms of it that you may read into an account.
Elton John isnāt quite as all over it as some have said, but the Holliesā segment is very much a vehicle for Elton John to tell his story about being a session musician there. Itās very frustrating to me that thereās not a particular big mention of the Hollies and Allan Clarke isnāt mentioned at all. Even if it was a simple āpretty much all the Hollies hits from 1963-1975 were recorded hereā would have done. It made āHe Aināt Heavyā seem like their one-hit wonder in its presentation. Pink Floyd got to tell their āthe hour we got to see the Beatles record Sgt. Pepperā story, which makes the Holliesā edit seem even more frustrating when the Hollies got a far closer look at Sgt. Pepper taking shape. But that seems to be forgotten from history nowā¦ as the band that recorded the most amount of tracks at the studio out of everyone who was mentioned and/or interviewed, I expected a bit more.
That said, the big treat for Hollies fans is theyāve used the session tape for āHe Aināt Heavyā and you hear Elton Johnās original count-in and it also reveals that there was an unused full orchestral score from the very first note. It fades various parts in and out and you get to hear Allanās raw double-tracked vocal briefly and Eltonās piano part on its own.
Overall, itās a worthy watch Iād say. Nothing really new or revealing, but itās entertaining and well paced. Obviously the Beatles take centre stage, but itās nice that Cliff Richard gets a look in to kick things off, with a new interview at the studio. Mary McCartneyās narration is very much āme and Abbey Roadā which Iām sure folks will have an opinion about, but thereās new interviews with Paul McCartney and Ringo Starr which show them in a nostalgic light. Mary McCartney has found just about all the available footage from Abbey Road in the 1960s (again, annoying that the Hollies footage isnāt used) and thereās a few Beatles photos that Iād not seen before. Itās very much the story of the music that was made there and the key points of the history of the studio. Itās not particularly technical, definitely one for casual viewing, but I enjoyed it far more than the initial reviews would lead me to believe that I would.
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Post by gee on Jan 9, 2023 22:56:00 GMT
Pink Floyd (about to work on 'Piper' debut album) we often hear mention of got a look at 'Sgt Pepper' being recorded...
...as also did Simon Dupree & The Big Sound - who were there working on their debut album 'Without Reservations'- Parlophone PMC / PCS 7029 (the second Parlophone LP release after 'Pepper'as the catalogue number advises)
however instead of just "looking on in awe" as I have heard Floyd members say....the three Shulman brothers (Derek 'Simon Dupree' himself, Ray, and Phil) between them were already playing a number of varied instruments on their EMI recordings
mellotron, vibraphone, piano, organ, gong and swirling wind effects (as The Hollies also featured on 'Elevated Observations ?' outro) all were featured on 'Kites' single that made no.8 in the UK and they featured brass, and vibes in addition to various guitars, drums, assorted percussion with some expertise ...
always makes me smile when some (not all) Beatles fans claim how they were light years ahead of everybody else - not in playing instruments or having imaginative recordings as many other classic artists were going strong too in 1967...
Later of course the three Shulman brothers would regroup in 1970 as acclaimed prog rock group Gentle Giant (playing some 33 instruments between the six piece, later five piece group) - but that 1967 album whilst essentially soul / pop influenced songs featured alot of the same instruments as 'Pepper'
...but I bet 'Simon Dupree & Co' were not mentioned as Pink Floyd were - or were they ?
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Post by gee on Jan 9, 2023 23:10:19 GMT
this was a track on 'Without Reservations' LP featuring brass and vibes (as Gentle Giant later also used)
producer Dave Paramor was the nephew of Cliff / Shadows producer Norman 'Norrie' Paramor I believe
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Post by baz on Jan 9, 2023 23:49:15 GMT
mellotron, vibraphone, piano, organ, gong and swirling wind effects (as The Hollies also featured on 'Elevated Observations ?' outro) all were featured on 'Kites' single that made no.8 in the UK and they featured brass, and vibes in addition to various guitars, drums, assorted percussion with some expertise ... I recall reading an interview with Dupree's bassist Peter O'Flaherty about 20 years ago where he scotched rumours that "Kites" was not recorded at Abbey Road by pointing out that Abbey Road had an actual wind machine which they used... as did The Hollies. A curious band... they were getting nowhere commercially with their soul based material and gained notoriety thanks to the BBC documentary "The Ravers" which didn't help matters either. So they requested their manager find them a hit and they did, only problem being they absolutely hated "Kites" but it did the trick. That's when they started doing their most interesting stuff and guess who joined them for a Scottish tour in 1968 when keyboardist Eric Hine fell ill? A certain Elton John... and they thought he was so good they even tried to entice him to join as a permanent member. It's possible he guested with them on a recording session or two... Dudley Moore tickled the ivories for them on one occasion at Abbey Road! Elton's session work included sessions at Abbey Road with Scaffold and The Barron Knights. Scaffold had quite a few interesting characters guesting on their records, most notably Graham Nash himself on "Lily The Pink", probably Nash's last session at Abbey Road before he left The Hollies, and Jack Bruce played bass on that one... who had of course done some recordings there with Manfred Mann and even earlier with Duffy Power and Graham Bond... and wasn't he the bassist on "After The Fox"? Cream even visited Abbey Road the following year backing Caroline Munro on her 1967 single... And on and on one could go namedropping and listing the countless legendary names that recorded at Abbey Road! |
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Post by gee on Jan 10, 2023 0:52:45 GMT
I saw Simon Dupree on a 'booze cruise' in 1966 - my Mum's friend Mary knew the brothers Mother Mrs Shulman
they had a younger brother Terry Shulman...who was quite happy in his job as a dustman !
they were a soul influenced band to begin with - doing 'I See The Light' in 1966 as their debut single
- co lead singer with Derek ('Simon Dupree') here is older brother Phil Shulman who played brass on the studio recording
Alan 'Fluff' Freeman wrote glowing linear notes on that LP 'Without Reservations'
they did a nice cover of Mike Hugg's Manfred Mann track 'Each And Every Day' renamed as; 'Daytime Nightime' another flop single !
'For Whom The Bell Tolls' was a minor UK Chart single hit, but 'Broken Hearted Pirates' was awful and they loathed it !
'Thinking About My Life' was a late single in 1969 but by then the brothers had other ideas
after they broke up the original band they joined forces with keyboardist / vocalist Kerry Minnear and gifted guitarist Gary Green and after a couple of drummers settled on Welsh percussionist John Weathers as Gentle Giant selling a lot of albums in a string of complex studio albums over 1970 to 1980 and were very popular in Europe, some parts of the USA but never really breaking through fully as big time at home in the UK despite being a 'known name' band here with critical plaudits
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Post by gee on Jan 10, 2023 1:06:48 GMT
one of Gentle Giant's best known tracks - 'I'm Turning Around'
from 'Live at The BBC'
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Post by gee on Jan 10, 2023 1:15:18 GMT
that was a more commercial track - but mostly Gentle Giant's material was the complete opposite going from acoustic to electric, from folk to complex harmonies, from church choir type vocal harmonies to rock music style - you never knew what to expect next from many of their album tracks
Jethro Tull's Ian Anderson watching them as Tull's support band on a tour once remarked
'I though our stuff was complex...but how the Hell do these guys remember all this ?'
see here the instruments they played...
On Reflection
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