The "Lost" 1968 album and Graham Nash's 1968 demos

[cameron]

Debating the "lost" 1968 album among fans has been a particularly favourite discussion of mine over the years, as I engineer together my own version of what I think it could have been. Here's the artwork and tracklist for my proposed version: 

[cameron]

As many know, I created a "finished" version of 'Marrakesh Express' using the Hollies' unfinished backing track and Graham Nash's and David Crosby's 1969 demo:

soundcloud.com/theholliesrareandunreleased/marrakesh-express-stereo

With the upcoming release of Graham's 'Over The Years' at the end of this month, there's an even earlier solo 1968 demo of 'Marrakesh Express' that I will have a go at merging with the Hollies' version. It's just quite unfathomable because the Hollies' version is several tones higher than Graham's solo versions or the official CSN version. Perhaps they were planning to slow it down and alter the sound timbre like they did with many "Butterfly" era songs?

My next question is, should Graham's other 1968 demo "Teach Your Children" be considered for inclusion on the 1968 LP? It was recorded in early 1968, so would have been considered for the Hollies to record. The Hollies themselves featured it in concert tours in 1983 with Graham and then it was a regular concert staple in the 1990s. Hear Graham's 1968 demo here:

[cameron]

PS, the cover I designed is a variant on "Hollies' Greatest" which was issued in lieu of the unfinished LP:

[eric]

Cameron, I love your artwork and tracklist. What a great album!

I compiled my version of the 1968 album some years ago based on the chronological order of the 1968 recordings. My tracks are therefore in the same order as tracks 7 to 17 on the 6th disc of “The Clarke, Hicks & Nash Years” box-set. This makes for a great listening experience too.

As I do not possess the technical abilities to create tracks, my compilation excludes “Survival Of The Fittest” and “Marrakesh Express” but it includes “Blowin’ In The Wind” (Nash version) and “A Taste of Honey”. (One can debate the inclusion of “Blowin’ In The Wind” given its inclusion (Sylvester version) on the “Sing Dylan” album.)

I will be grateful if you would explain your use of “Very Last Day” given it first appeared in 1965. Is this a live recording or an out-take?

[cameron]

Jun 21, 2018 11:39:13 GMT eric said:

I will be grateful if you would explain your use of “Very Last Day” given it first appeared in 1965. Is this a live recording or an out-take?

They recorded it in a studio for "Colour Me Pop" in mid-1968. It's the 1968 arrangement that you see during the Yugoslavian concert, minus any audience noise and a decent sound recording. It's Graham on his guitar, Tony on his banjo and the three of them singing. It's a live recording, but worthy of inclusion as it sounds like it was recorded in the studio, and as they proved with "A Taste of Honey", they weren't averse to re-recording earlier covers. 

[eric]

Thank you Cameron.

[dirtyfaz]

Nice list and artwork. Notice you used the mono prefix PMC for the catalogue number.

Thanks for the question Eric re Very Last Day. I was wondering where that was going to be coming from. Thanks for the response Cameron.
I realise that the tracks you have used are all out there.

You Were A Pretty Girl was recorded in late March sessions that included Relax, Tomorrow When It Comes and Marrakesh Express.
Another track around that time Ashes To Ashes (actually during Butterfly sessions) was recorded. Not too much known about the track.

I guess that if Graham had stayed then there would have been a bunch of new songs that maybe hadn't been written or recorded yet.

I like this exercise though Cameron.

[cameron]

Jun 22, 2018 0:54:22 GMT dirtyfaz said:

Nice list and artwork. Notice you used the mono prefix PMC for the catalogue number.

I  have made up a complete audio mix for this LP, mixing various stereo mixes, mono mixes, outtakes, BBC sessions and live tracks together to "complete" some of these songs that the Hollies rushed in 1968 and perhaps didn't finish. It's all in mono to hide the edits a bit better. For example, for "Man With No Expression", I merge the 1997 mix with less tambourine during the first half with the 1993 Ron Furmanek mix as of Nash's middle eight onwards, as Tony is more prominent in the final chorus in that one. Also for "Jennifer Eccles" I've removed the wolf-whistle where possible and overdubbed the brass section from the Lewisham Odeon recording to give it a different, less commercial sound. 

I've managed to bag an early release of Graham's solo 1968 demo of "Marrakesh Express", so I'm working on syncing that with the Hollies' instrumental track right now. It's frustrating that the Hollies' backing track is in the key of C, but the demo is in the key of D, which is exactly the same as the CSN demo version and the final CSN version. I've worked out that the Hollies must have planned to slow the track down to bring it in key (much like they did "Would You Believe") and overdub some extra guitar in the new key to change the tone of the backing track. 

I'm considering fitting Nash's 1968 solo demo for "Teach Your Children" into the tracklist, as he usually has a solo spot on their LPs by this point. I've found a 1990s live recording of the Hollies singing it (with Alan Coates) and I'm going to see if they'll fit together to get Allan and Tony's voice onto Graham's 1968 demo. But I've not tried yet so it might not fit. 

[dirtyfaz]

Thanks Cameron

A lot of work you will have to put into it. Not within my skill set.

[Deleted]

Jun 22, 2018 0:54:22 GMT dirtyfaz said:

Another track around that time Ashes To Ashes (actually during Butterfly sessions) was recorded. Not too much known about the track.

Could it be this song?

[gee]

Bobby Elliott once advised that The Hollies recording 'Ashes To Ashes' was an original Hollies composition

so apparently it was not the Carole Bayer-Toni Wine song above which I had always assumed it was probably as both Hollies and Mindbenders recorded Graham Gouldman's song 'Schoolgirl' circa 1967

'You Were A Pretty Little Girl' was it seems chiefly a Tony Hicks song - the title might have led him on to his later song 'Little Girl' on 'Confessions...' (?)

[Stranger]

Surely it's this song which contain s the lyrics "ashes to ashes" :

[cameron]

Hopefully we will find out one day soon, if Ron Furmanek's article in the Hollies' tour guide is anything to go by!

[knut]

Did The Hollies ever record Coming from the ground then? There is a nice version by Nicky James too.

[cameron]

I've always thought that the Hollies were playing the backing on "Coming From The Ground". No one's ever confirmed or denied it. The Lee Kings were an ailing act by 1967, so bringing in the Hollies to produce/co-write a track was a great move. Perhaps with the Hollies already in the studio, they just asked them to play as 'session musicians' to give the track that extra punch. The Lee Kings were a good band, but not in the same league technically speaking as the Hollies.

To me, the drums seem very much in Bobby's style - right down to that two beats on the snare before the track starts. The fast drumming and fills are his style to a tee. And that guitar solo with the fast pull offs and slides is Tony's style too. Both of them have very unique identifiable playing styles, and I very strongly believe it's them on the Lee Kings track. Allan and Graham are actually shown playing acoustic guitars on the picture sleeve cover of the single, so they're obviously playing those. The whole production is muddy sounding though, perhaps intentionally, so it's hard to pin point who's playing what.

[Gralto]

Jun 23, 2018 16:33:15 GMT knut said:

Did The Hollies ever record Coming from the ground then? There is a nice version by Nicky James too.

Knut - there is a 1967 surviving demo featuring Clarke, Nash, James and Duncan playing the track but to the best of my knowledge, The Hollies never had a crack at it themselves in the studio. The fast becoming-legendary unheard Butterfly-album session outtake 'Ashes to Ashes' is not 'Coming From The Ground'.

[Gralto]

Jun 20, 2018 15:12:07 GMT cameron said:

Debating the "lost" 1968 album among fans has been a particularly favourite discussion of mine over the years, as I engineer together my own version of what I think it could have been. Here's the artwork and tracklist for my proposed version: 

Looks awesome Cam!

[irelandcalling4]

That album (I compiled same, except for Very Last Day on the ipod a few years ago) is a top favourite; excellent songs. I see it almost as a proper studio album during that terrific run 1966 - 1975.

The albums 1970-1975 in particular discussed on other topic are top tier; the Hollies album side never given the respect it does deserve. They stand with the Stones, Who and Kinks as 60s beat groups who progressed not only through the later 60s but flourished into the 70s with artistic success and merit. The "60s singles act" tells only one part of the tale. The studio album Hollies is the equal of their more iconic contemporaries I think. I've introduced them to my Beatle loving family in law and Beatle obsessive neighbour - family in law think, like I do, that the Hollies were actually better then the Mop Tops! Objectively of course the Beatles are top; even since the 90s and Anthology to present day their PR and influence has been remarkable. Subjectively on discovering the Hollies properly a few years ago I was floored how good they were; particularly For Certain Because, Evolution, Butterly and Hollies '68 (the comp. of '68 tracks) - as musically thrilling as the Beatles works. For me the Hollies come out on top, the sheer number of wonderul songs and stellar albums right up to the mid 70s.

[knut]

What is the source of Survival Of The Fittest used? I seem to be unable to locate any early recording.

[cameron]

Jul 13, 2018 6:37:22 GMT knut said:

What is the source of Survival Of The Fittest used? I seem to be unable to locate any early recording.

It's a mash-up of the first BBC version, and a fold-down of the 1970 version, with Graham's guitar pushed forward in the mix a bit 

[thereconstructor]

Recently, I've seen some very interesting discussion as to what would have happened had Graham not joined CSN in 1969. Would he have stayed for a couple more years in the Hollies? Would he start a solo career?

Either way, I'm sure we'd get at least one more Hollies album out of Nash, as they were already well on their way to finishing one more LP. I've recently put it together in a blog post over at the Reconstructor:

[​IMG]

THE HOLLIES - LISTEN TO US (1968)

Open Up Your Eyes (Clarke, Hicks, and Nash Years)
Do the Best You Can (Clarke, Hicks, and Nash Years)
Relax (Clarke, Hicks, and Nash Years)
Tomorrow When it Comes (Clarke, Hicks and Nash Years)
Lady of the Island (Crosby, Stills, and Nash)
Wings (Clarke, Hicks, and Nash Years)
-
Survival of the Fittest (Confessions of the Mind)
Jennifer Eccles (Clarke, Hicks, and Nash Years)
Man With No Expression (Clarke, Hicks and Nash Years)
Like Every Time Before (Clarke, Hicks, and Nash Years)
Marrakesh Express (Over the Years)
Listen to Me (Clarke, Hicks, and Nash Years)

the-reconstructor.blogspot.com/2023/12/the-hollies-listen-to-us-1968.html

[baz]

Dec 4, 2023 15:50:33 GMT thereconstructor said:

Recently, I've seen some very interesting discussion as to what would have happened had Graham not joined CSN in 1969. Would he have stayed for a couple more years in the Hollies? Would he start a solo career?

One of those things we can only but wonder about. I do think Graham was getting itchy feet, his ego was growing and with his newest songs not being so well received by The Hollies, he would have done a solo album to strike out on his own to get his songs out there. Maybe he'd have stayed for one more album if it was devoted to original material.

It's easy to say he was appalled by the Dylan idea but I think he was more irritated that they were casting aside their original material in favour of covers which for him would have felt like a step backward to earlier days when their albums were a mix of covers and originals. There is the story of him visiting Allan and Terry in 1969 and Allan played him "Hollies Sing Hollies" which had Graham demanding to know why they couldn't have made an album like that when he was still in the band - given his last three albums had been all original affairs, he must have been thinking of 1968 and the decision to go with the Dylan album... so my personal feeling is the band ditching original material in favour of covers was what prompted him to walk.

[peterc]

1968 was a strange year for established UK bands, with The Who failing to come up with anything (while continuing to hone their live skills), The Tremeloes not following up their two 1967 albums (apart from a less-than-great US album of iffy covers), and The Beatles releasing what largely sounded like a collection of solo recordings. Only The Rolling Stones "found" themselves, coming up with the template they've largely followed for the past 50-odd years. So The Hollies certainly weren't alone in losing their way during that year. As for Graham, even if he'd lasted a few more years, I couldn't picture him staying after the hits had dried up, touring with the same setlist for decades afterwards.

[baz]

Dec 4, 2023 17:21:56 GMT peterc said:

1968 was a strange year for established UK bands, with The Who failing to come up with anything (while continuing to hone their live skills), The Tremeloes not following up their two 1967 albums (apart from a less-than-great US album of iffy covers), and The Beatles releasing what largely sounded like a collection of solo recordings. Only The Rolling Stones "found" themselves, coming up with the template they've largely followed for the past 50-odd years. So The Hollies certainly weren't alone in losing their way during that year. As for Graham, even if he'd lasted a few more years, I couldn't picture him staying after the hits had dried up, touring with the same setlist for decades afterwards.

Good point. The Who especially seemed utterly clueless... funnily enough "Dogs" is one of my faves of theirs but a bad choice for a single and whilst it may be a fave for many, I think "Magic Bus" is one of their most boring tracks of all and no surprise that didn't do well. The various tracks they recorded across 1968 were a bizarre grab bag of odd styles and ideas, some of which are great but there was no unity to them. It is kinda ironic the Stones managed to land on their feet after a rough year commercially in 1967... just a pity they didn't veer much away from that template afterwards.

The Hollies were certainly in an odd situation as it appears the Clarke-Hicks-Nash partnership was no longer functioning as before, Graham was writing plenty yet Clarke and Hicks didn't seem that inspired - maybe they felt pushed out by Graham? - hence an imbalance was created plus the "failure" of "King Midas" and "Butterfly" was weighing against them as they had let Graham have his way and appeared to continue to do so in early 68 before they fell into disarray, not quite knowing what to do musically, rejecting the live album and going for their first hits collection to ensure EMI were happy. Thing with Graham, he's a very egotistical guy and I can imagine him sulking when his new songs were being passed over, made all the worse by Crosby and Stills liking the songs he was writing so what was he gonna do? He was gonna go where his songs were wanted as opposed to sticking around in a band beholden to the hits and so on. I can see it from both sides... sure go with Graham and his ideas, there was no guarantee of making the transition to an album act as the public only really cared about the poppy singles... so with 4 other guys thinking about their futures and bank balances they were inevitably gonna go in the direction they did and what happened? They were initially proved right as the Dylan album was their most successful album and the 1969 singles were major hits.

[Mevrouw Bee]

Surprised to read "Magic Bus" didn't do so well, but I guess was different in Canada where it went to #6 and on the radio all the time.

"Dogs" wasn't released in Canada (until "Dogs Part Two" became the b-side to "Pinball Wizard"), but "Call Me Lightning" was. A real throwback (considering it was written in '64) but I think it's fun. Peaked at #35 (40 on Billboard).