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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2017 8:46:20 GMT
Enjoy!  |
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Post by anthony on Jan 23, 2017 12:13:22 GMT
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Post by cameron on Jan 23, 2017 20:59:05 GMT
What a fantastic find! Great to see them wandering through the park in a distinctive "summer of love" way! Shame they're missing their psychedelic gear. I'd guess this was filmed in early 1968 on their tour of Scandinavia. I don't think 'Postcard' was ever issued as a single anywhere, I think it was a B-side to "Dear Eloise" in some countries.
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Post by Sharon 22 on Jan 24, 2017 1:22:33 GMT
Is there any way to find it in higher quality or post it in better resolution through another site or file transfer of the original file?
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Post by Gralto on Jan 24, 2017 13:03:08 GMT
Fantastic find Peter - thanks so much for sharing. Never seen this before.
But...I think the supers on the clip are definitely wrong and I also think the dubbing of Postcard by the network onto the images is bogus too. Let me explain...
The key here is Bobby's headwear. By mid 1967 - circa May - I'm pretty sure that Bobby stopped wearing his dark train driver cap, and moved to a wide brimmed number. Elliott's white turtle neck skivvy is also absent from Hollies pics by mid 1967. There's also no sign here of the psychedelic clobber various members started wearing from mid 1967, which they were still seen in well into 1968 - check out the Smothers Brothers clips from Dec 67 and Hollywood Palace 'Jennifer Eccles' US clip taped on 10 Feb 1968.
Clarke also has distinctive sideburns here that are not evident in Dec 1967 shots.
I believe the date of this clip is mid December 1966 and quite possibly - assuming it was shot in Scandinavia - a clip from the unseen Hollies sequences from 'Drop In With The Hollies', recorded on 9 Dec 1966 in Stockholm by noted clip maker Swede Peter Goldmann (who later did the Carrie Anne promo in May 1967). The H are filmed on trams but there may have been other places. Also appearing in this special were The Troggs, The Small Faces, Manfred Mann and The Beach Boys. The Troggs and Small Faces footage is known to survive, but clips of the others (inc The H) remains uncertain. Perhaps this is the first evidence of The H clips surviving? This special was also sold to other countries as Norway screened it in Feb 1967.
The H also filmed a television appearance in Helsinki, Finland (also unseen/lost?) on 14 Dec 1966. Perhaps this? Or...what Peter has found could be a previously undocumented clip, shot at another time, another place. 192 TV is a Dutch music TV channel - perhaps it's from a Dutch TV show??
Nevertheless, for the time being, I'm standing by this being from Dec 1966.
Now to the song...
Postcard was recorded at Abbey Road on 8 Sept 1967 and not mixed until October. Based on the available evidence, I'm gonna purely speculate that the original audio overlaid could have been 'Don't Even Think About Changing' - which runs 2.14, the same length as this clip. Don't Even Think About Changing was the B-Side to What's Wrong With The Way I Live, a Swedish 45 released in...Dec 1966.
Well, it all sounds plausible!!
Who'd like to dump 'Don't Even...' over the top of the clip to suss this out?
(and yes, I need to expand my life somewhat...when my little book is done you'll be forced to suffer through a lot more of this pedantic level of detail)
Peter - are you able to provide any further info? It's a great clip and the guys look so happy. The relaxed silliness that Bernie brought to the group is really evident in surviving post-Haydock 1966 clips.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2017 15:08:27 GMT
Peter - are you able to provide any further info? It's a great clip and the guys look so happy. The relaxed silliness that Bernie brought to the group is really evident in surviving post-Haydock 1966 clips. Sorry Simon, I don't have any info. Someone sent me several discs of 192 TV broadcasts featuring a jumble of artists and songs from different eras and genres, and this was amongst them.
I too suspect that the footage is from earlier than the soundtrack, and the person(s) behind 192 TV does occasionally make "new" videos for songs that they have no footage for.
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Post by cameron on Jan 24, 2017 19:14:39 GMT
I thought all their clothes/hairstyles were way out of sync with when the Butterfly LP was issued too. But I'm more inclined to say that this was filmed post their "flower power bit" as both Graham's and Tony's hairstyles are much longer than they were in late 1966. Allan certainly grew sideburns around the time of their fling with cabaret in mid-1968, but I've yet to see any photos of him having them before that. I'll give you Bobby's hat and turtleneck jumper that you don't generally see after early 1967, but perhaps this was just after the "flower power bit" when they were crossing over to more conservative dress and perhaps revisiting some of their older clothes for the time being. I'm prepared to put money on this clip actually being filmed around May/June 1968 on their brief tour of Scandinavia. The psychedelic wardrobe seems to have been pushed out of a hotel window somewhere after their tour of America in early 1968.
And cue the most anal Hollies thing I think I've ever said! I love this forum!
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Post by Gralto on Jan 26, 2017 11:37:42 GMT
Flattery will get you nowhere Cam! :-) No I still don't agree - Roots66, if she is still lurking on this forum, is the queen of Hicks' fashion and stylistic repertoire and may be able to put this to bed one way or the other. Based on the number of photos I've seen of The H over the years, I don't think I've seen Clarke wearing that very 1965-ish suit and tie combo post 1966 anywhere. That's not to say he didn't after that but the whole scene changed after 1967 and wearing a close fitting tailored suit round town in 1968 was seen as pretty square (on stage was a little different if they had a cabaret booking). But offstage the band went very casual like everyone else in 1968 - but happy to be proven wrong otherwise with a telling shot.
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Post by roots66 on Jan 26, 2017 14:07:40 GMT
Hey, don't look at me. Given the length of TH's hair I was half-expecting to see Terry among them!
My gut says '68 though. I'm inclined to think Bob still donned the Greek fisherman's cap sometimes on more casual outings.
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Post by cameron on Jan 28, 2017 12:36:35 GMT
Hey, don't look at me. Given the length of TH's hair I was half-expecting to see Terry among them! Lol! I thought the same, he never had hair that long until very late 1968 from what I've seen. Graham's hair is very long too which is how he had it from around spring 1968. Allan's suit doesn't throw me off as he often wore them - especially in the early 1970s before he went more into his "cowboy" look. The only confusing aspect for me is why is Graham wearing a suit? He would never dress so "square" in 1968! Also, towards the end of the video, as they sit on the park bench, you can clearly see Graham miming "butterfly" and flapping his hands. So perhaps the TV crew said they wanted some random footage to put an album track to, hence his tongue in cheek reference to the album? That puts it into 1968 rather than 1966. |
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Post by Gralto on Jan 29, 2017 15:49:46 GMT
It's nice to be able to provide a bit of a scoop on this site occasionally, no matter how small. I can now provide details on the date of the 'Postcard' clip, where it was shot and its subsequent historical significance in The Hollies story.
Firstly, I was a little bit right and a whole lot wrong. Right in that the supers and soundtrack were added with incorrect information. But wrong with the date. Having banged on about why it was definitely Dec 1966, I was basing this on Bobby's headwear choice, Allan's rarely seen long sideburns and one photo taken in the USA in Dec 1966 where the others had longish hair, that I was convinced it was plausible. I also analysed a collection of shots taken between Nov 67 and Feb 1968 and ruled out the 'Dec 1967' period.
Cameron and Roots66 - you guys are absolutely correct in stating it's from 1968. In fact, the clip was taken 14 Nov 1968, less than a month before Nash's departure on 8 Dec 1968. It was filmed in parkland in Bremen, Germany, nearby the Park Hotel where The H had been staying. The night previous, the band had been taping their latest Beat Club appearances (Listen To Me, Blowin' In The Wind).
Rather than Postcard, the song the band are messing about for is Do The Best You Can. On what show this was screened or for what purposes, is not presently known. I can add that the source of the above date and place info is impeccable, given he was in the clip and remains the keeper of the detailed Hollies info. Occasionally hits out a beat too...
All of this said, I'm still a little intrigued by Do The Best You Can. The song runs around 2.46 and the clip runs 30 secs less than that. I know that clips sometimes truncate songs and there is a clear fade at the end of Peter C's clip posting. However, it did get me thinking of a cryptic note I have of a filmed/taped clip of Like Every Time Before being recorded in Germany round this time but never seen...
Anybody like to dump both songs onto this vision?
Historically, this date of 14 Nov 1968 becomes significant because, to the best of my knowledge, this clip represents the last time Graham was filmed in a Hollies clip before he departed. The next time would then be 10 Sept 1981 for Holliedaze on TOTP. (and yes, other H clips with Nash went to air after 14 Nov 1968 but they had been taped prior to this date).
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2017 11:03:39 GMT
Historically, this date of 14 Nov 1968 becomes significant because, to the best of my knowledge, this clip represents the last time Graham was filmed in a Hollies clip before he departed. The next time would then be 10 Sept 1981 for Holliedaze on TOTP. (and yes, other H clips with Nash went to air after 14 Nov 1968 but they had been taped prior to this date). Thanks for the excellent info Simon.
If this was really the last time they were filmed together prior to Graham leaving, then it's great to see them having fun. In most of the autumn '68 clips Tony looks particularly miserable (though he seems to noticeably perk up in the early '69 clips with Terry).
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Post by cameron on Jan 30, 2017 18:17:39 GMT
What a mine of information you are Simon! Amazing that you've been able to find all that out so quickly. (Although I have a slightly smug face for being correct on the era that the clip was from! haha)
It should be noted that the mono mix of 'Do The Best You Can' is shorter than the stereo mix (but only by about ten seconds) - there is only one play through of the little harmonica bit at the end of the song as opposed to stereo where it plays through twice (you can hear the edit in the mono mix if you listen carefully) so perhaps that's where the time difference is from? Though I think your explanation of them re-cutting the clip to suit 'Postcard' is more plausible.
Interesting that it turns out to be Graham's last filmed appearance with the group, it seems like the typical goofing around that they did in videos from 1965/6 so I can totally see why you thought it was from them. They matured musically massively by 1968 (despite the hiccup with Jennifer Eccles!) though it's nice to see them not taking things seriously here.
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2018 9:33:10 GMT
I've done a bit more research on this, and can now reveal that the video was broadcast on the German TV show ‘Drehscheibe’ on 13-02-1969, with 'Listen To Me' as the soundtrack.
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Post by Gralto on May 23, 2018 14:51:25 GMT
Excellent, excellent work Peter - this makes more sense to me than 'Do The Best You Can' being on the soundtrack. It's great to put the source of this to bed - well done Mr C.
It does though exemplify what the folk at BR Music have consistently done with their judicious use of editing to change original works from the 1960s/70s and impose their own artistic judgements over what they believe is more presentable for the contemporary audiences, and then not notify the viewer of these alterations. So the original clip's audio of 'Listen To Me' has been removed and 'Postcard' dumped over the top - why?
Similarly, the Dutch Collection DVD they put together that was eventually officially issued by EMI Netherlands many years ago contained more of the same. It baffled me why they decided to re-edit Rod Shields' official promotional film clip of 'Magic Woman Touch' - repeating shots, removing others and completely ruining Shields'concept of trying to show on film the progression of how the song was recorded. There was also the decision to mess with the German 'Disco' clip of 'Too Young To Be Married' by removing bits of the original telecast and using introduced slow mo to pad out & alter other bits out. I think there were others too.
This editorial revisionism is up there alongside some of the work done on the Hollies BBC 'Radio Fun' CD to remove DJ links and intros etc. Very frustrating for this history buff! And the less said about the addition of modern recorded kickdrum tracks to recent mixes of 'King Midas in Reverse' etc the better.
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Post by allanangel on May 23, 2018 16:31:35 GMT
This is fantastic information. Thank you, all!
I watched the video again with Listen To Me playing in my head. It has a totally different vibe to it. Much more playful.
In retrospect, it is also very sad considering what happened three weeks later.
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Post by allanangel on May 23, 2018 16:42:10 GMT
Went back and watched it again with Do The Best You Can playing in my head. It played more like one big goodbye. Very sad.
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2018 17:59:06 GMT
I do think it works well with 'Postcard', but having said that I agree with Simon about re-writing history.
My biggest bugbear is overdubbing live footage (or live vocals) with studio recordings. On DVD at least it would be easy to let people have the CHOICE of which audio to hear, but it's rarely, if ever, done.
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