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Post by dirtyfaz on Jul 22, 2015 2:47:08 GMT
Do any of our members know if any of The Hollies up until Sylvester & Calvert left were actually able to read music sheets/score. You would thing Bernie could because of his piano playing but what about the rest.
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Post by christocello on Jul 22, 2015 4:57:37 GMT
I would doubt that. Because you need a lot of experience as an instrument player to develop sight reading abilities. And drummers in the field of pop/rock (even jazz) seldom use notation. Tony is said to have learned the classical guitar in his youth - I remember I once read something about an argument he had with Keith Rechards about the advantage of having some knowledge in this kind of "classical" education. So he might have gotten initiated into the mysteries of music notation. Graham and Alan obviously learned their instruments not in the "classical" way. And when they sang "The lord is my shepherd" together in school, they probably sang the lines by heart, having learned them by repeated listening (to their choirmaster) and practising. With Bernie you might be right, because he is said to have had this kind of "classical" background. What about Terry - I absolutely don't know.
The Beatles often told the press, they would't have a clue about music notation and music reading. Especially McCartney said so - and he refused to learn it, because it would hinder his imagination. So the Beatles needed George Martin to "translate" their musical ideas into notation when they hired professional "classical" musicians (Yesterday, For no one, Eleanor Rigby and so on.)
All in all, just few musicians in the pop/rock genre can actually sight read (or write) music in that "classical" way. I think the majority hav developed good skills on their instrument, they learn by listening to and asking other musicians. Nowadays it has become much more simple, because you'll get all your tabs and tutorial videos through the internet.
And - one last thing: for what purpose would sight reading have been an advantage for the Hollies? To develop a three-part harmony they could have relied on Ron Richards and on their own musical feeling and experience. So - sight reading is mostly important for classical musicians that at first have to stick very strictly to notation and who play lots of different music every day, e.g. in an orchestra.
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Post by cameron on Jul 22, 2015 15:33:12 GMT
I don't think sight reading is of any advantage to musicians in a band whatsoever. Other than perhaps a vocal line when they got the demo/lyrics of a song from a publisher. But usually they were just supplied with a demo 45 or tape and a sheet of lyrics. Guitar parts are hardly ever written in notation form, usually tablature or a chord chart. I was taught sight reading at school/college but it has no advantage to composing popular music whatsoever and it's awfully time consuming to write with a lot of margin for error. You rarely get a music sheet book of popular songs that's accurate. Anyone got any of the Hollies' official sheet music? How accurate is it?
I think in those days too people had a lot of talent and musicality. There was no relying on computers to generate it and you had to write a catchy song so you'd remember how it went because recording demos was expensive! To the average person, a reel of tape would cost a good portion of their weeks' wages and they'd have to have a tape recorder too which would cost a few months' wages to buy! So writing tunes that were instantly catchy/memorable was the key I think.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2015 15:56:36 GMT
I think in those days too people had a lot of talent and musicality. There was no relying on computers to generate it and you had to write a catchy song so you'd remember how it went because recording demos was expensive! To the average person, a reel of tape would cost a good portion of their weeks' wages and they'd have to have a tape recorder too which would cost a few months' wages to buy! So writing tunes that were instantly catchy/memorable was the key I think. I think it was Paul McCartney who said that he and John would write lots of songs in their early days without taping anything, and if they could remember any of them the next day they knew they were worthwhile! I can easily imagine Allan, Graham and Tony or Jagger and Richards or Brian Wilson or Leiber and Stoller or Holland-Dozier-Holland (etc etc) doing exactly the same.
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Post by dirtyfaz on Jul 22, 2015 22:46:55 GMT
I agree with all the comments above. I play bass and I can't read. Back then ears were very important and when creating songs didn't the Hollies have a portable tape recorder?
None of the responses answer my question. Do any of the band sight read?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2015 7:50:47 GMT
Portable cassette recorders weren't introduced until around 1965, and even then the quality was poor. Of course, many had reel to reel recorders before that, but it's unlikely these would've been taken on tour to hotel rooms, on buses, etc. So it's probable that many of the melodies (if not the lyrics) were simply committed to memory.
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Post by cameron on Jul 23, 2015 18:25:34 GMT
The Hollies always carried reel-to-reel recorders from around 1965 - there were plenty of brands of portable battery powered ones from Philips and Akai or Uher if you were quite wealthy. The cream of the crop was the Nagra that would record at 15i.p.s (inches per second) which was the same speed that the tape machines at Abbey Road recorded at. All of these were portable and quite light - no heavier than a Dansette. Although Graham mentioned a Brenell in his book - I've got a Brenell Mk 5 myself and it's "portable" if you have a car to cart it around in and a roadie to carry it for you! Very heavy, around 15-20kgs in all. But it records at up to 15ips and was the favoured machine of all the stars of the day - famously the Beatles. John Lennon recorded his "Strawberry Fields" demo on one. The Hollies often refer to their tape recorders in interviews but often say they sat in the back of a car and used them - so must have had a fairly cheap battery powered one.
In answer to the thread, Bernie Calvert was the only one who could read music, but he couldn't write it very well. He called in Mike Vickers to finish "Reflections Of A Time Long Past".
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Post by dirtyfaz on Jul 29, 2015 14:30:47 GMT
I guess the answer to my question then is no. Makes sense that Bernie could because of the keyboards training.
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Post by Stranger on Jul 29, 2015 16:18:34 GMT
I guess there are a few anecdotal bits of evidence that they weren't in anyway "trained". For example, Mike Batt revealing to Tony in the '80s that his third harmony tended not be a harmony at all or some of the trained musicians at Abbey Road telling them in the '60s that some of the chords in their songs were in wrong key but they carried on regardless as they liked how it sounded.
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