Hollies photo at EMI House.

[downriver]

Living in London and venturing to Soho often (Dave Dee jokes welcome!) I have always been fascinated by that balcony the Beatles leaned on in 1963 and 1969 photos by Angus McBean.
I find it criminal that something so historic could be destroyed. I damn wish I got to see it.
Other artists before and since had their photo taken there too.
Also there are photos of The Supremes and The Beach Boys outside the building (which was on Manchester Square) and you can almost see the legendary balcony in the background.
Anyway there is this Facebook page that has really dodgy colourised photos of the Hollies but one caught my eye as it depicted them outside the famous building!
So I decided to see if I could find a better shot or a source.
And here it is!
Thought fans here would be interested.
I really didn't want to just barge in with a new post but I did use the search function to see if it was already discussed here and I could not see that it had.
It is the closest we will ever have to The Hollies posing on the famous balcony! It even looks like it's made out of the same material!
What a great shot.Does anyone know where I can purchase a watermark free copy?
Are there other photos circulating?
Now we mention it, I do remember not too long ago seeing another taken nearby at the same photoshoot.

www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/british-rock-group-the-hollies-at-emi-house-in-manchester-news-photo/1365365418

[baz]

There's a fair few photos taken around that Manchester Square building of various EMI acts. There was a metal spiral staircase outside that led to a basement and many acts would gather around that and I'm sure I've seen a Hollies pic in colour of them on that staircase.

Here's another shot in b+w taken from another angle, one of several... and this one is even closer to the legendary balcony!

www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/british-pop-group-the-hollies-11th-april-1964-they-are-news-photo/2798546

Incidentally, just two days later they were at Abbey Road for the session that produced "Here I Go Again", "Baby That's All", "Don't You Know" and "Time For Love".

American acts like The Beach Boys had their photos taken there as well as naturally they would pay a visit to EMI during their visits and a photographer would be present to get some all important new press shots.

[downriver]

Thanks Baz! That was the one I saw a while ago and have not been able to find since. So it's great to see it again!

[moorlock2003]

Yes, with Graham and Tony still sporting those repugnant ‘50s style pompadours.

[gee]

Re the famous 'Red' and 'Blue' Beatles albums cover photos at Manchester Square the 1963 photos were of course taken by Angus McBean (pronunced 'McBain' I learned only recently)...however I believe the later 1969 photo - which was originally intended for the aborted 'Get Back' album - was taken by Linda McCartney (who got the angle of McBean's older photo slightly out but was pretty close)

Looks like we'll be seeing them again in a revamped set soon very likely expanded including the 'new' Beatles track; 'Now And Then'

be nice if BMG revamped The Hollies back catalogue....

[downriver]

Hi Gee! Man I am so chuffed about the 3rd Beatles reunion record. I loved the first 2 and was disappointed Anthology 3 never came with a 3rd.
I too saw that Parlogram video and stopped pronouncing it "bean" 😂
Re the 1969 balcony photo tho, is that really Linda? My understanding is John wanted everything down to the finest detail, including even luring back Angus to take the photo. Yes Linda was in the picture and yes she had her camera and yes she took zebra crossing outtakes but I've never been aware of reports of her being at the balcony session.
I do know there were two different shoots tho, on different dates so maybe one was Angus and one was Linda.

[cameron]

It's also interesting that circa 2001 EMI were digitising the negatives from the 1963 photo op on that balcony and a cleaner mistakenly threw the whole box away! EMI sued the cleaning company, but alas, that piece of history is sadly gone forever.

[gee]

It was Paul McCartney who said Linda took that 1969 balcony photo I remember reading...but whether it was her pic or Angus came back to do it is questionable - I would have thought Angus would have got his old 1963 angle spot on - it's very slightly out if you hold the 'Red' and 'Blue' albums up alongside each other - but it's not really anything important

yeah the EMI cleaner story was tragic...!! - tho' BBC have 'junked' so much precious TV material as well...

We know George vetoed 'Now And Then' from Anthology three but to be fair the demo did apparently have a 'power hum' on it throughout that they could not remove back then which obviously would have got to George as no way would they normally put out anything so clearly substandard which would detract from the Group name ...added to that the rough demo would have sounded like a weaker incomplete song idea as opposed to a proper demo to work with then, while now with that modern AI thing Peter Jackson has they can isolate each part, strengthen John's voice without adding anything to it and retaining George's rhythm guitar part add Paul and Ringo's parts (and it seems utilise John, Paul and George three part vocal harmony sound sequenced from 'Because') to hopefully create a complete Beatles performance

I think also back then after doing two John song demos George may have felt 'enough was enough' bearing in mind how he always had to fight to just get a couple of his own songs featured on Beatles albums...so whether George would have accepted a modern tech created version of 'Now And Then' minus the power hum and with proper John vocal ...or still called it 'Rubbish'(he liked to be a bit awkward at times out of sheer mischief) we can only guess....

I would like to see Peter Jackson get to work on The Star Club Hamburg tapes

Also that AI could be (and probably will) used to improve the very hard separation and sometimes very 'muddy' mix of early to mid sixties Beatles EMI stereo and create true decent stereo on tracks only in mono or fake stereo etc...which if so, might hopefully in due course also see some earlier sixties Hollies stereo EMI albums get a decent true stereo sound.  

[baz]

Aug 8, 2023 21:39:03 GMT gee said:

yeah the EMI cleaner story was tragic...!! - tho' BBC have 'junked' so much precious TV material as well...

Yet EMI were just as bad as the BBC as evidenced by their junking of a huge amount of multitrack tapes during 1971 and 1972 - ironically, during the same era the BBC set about junking many of their old black and white TV shows. Also like the BBC with their videotapes, EMI would recycle multitrack tapes as well - witness the fact by 1966, the multi's of The Beatles' "She Loves You" were already gone. Some real horror stories in there such as only one multitrack surviving from Pink Floyd's first album and in spite of making many recordings for EMI, Peter and Gordon and Manfred Mann are represented by just one 4 track tape each... all their session tapes are long gone. Steve Howe recently released a "remix" of the album he did with Tomorrow where he used demixing technology to recreate the MONO mix as well as taking some senseless liberties because he always hated the stereo mix and was annoyed to learn that not a single multitrack exists of the band.

Though it appears that The Beatles, Cliff Richard and The Hollies were generally spared and most of their multitracks survive to this day, some were still junked - the "I'm Alive" session tape doesn't exist and neither does "Jennifer Eccles" - when Ron Furmanek did his remixes, all he could do with those was tweak the existing stereo mixes. The reason behind EMI's junkings? Multitrack tapes took up more space than 1/4 inch masters so getting rid of those freed up space for more masters. The BBC claimed similarly - it was to free up space. Whilst one can understand that logic to a degree as archives do cost money to maintain, the fact that the BBC and EMI were hardly strapped for cash makes it all the more unforgivable and in the long run shot themselves in the foot as they could have exploited that material commercially to great effect.

Despite that, it is criminal that with most session multitracks existing that The Hollies' main body of work has NOT been remixed/upgraded when there are several albums of horrible stereo mixes. The AI technology Giles Martin now has access to has actually been around for over 15 years in the form of spectral editing which has gotten ever more refined, able to extract elements from mono mixes or multitracks where more than one instrument was on one track. It's now reached the point where extraordinary results can be gotten. For a prime example, check out "Paperback Writer". The mono single was powerful, but the original stereo mix was pants. Ron Furmanek remixed it in the mid 90's for the "Anthology" videos to great effect, getting a balance far closer to the mono single. Giles then did his own mix in 2015 for "1+" which was good but the remix he did last year is astonishing as he was able to extract Ringo's drums from the basic track where it was "locked in" with guitar parts so now the drums really jump out at you with a force and life of their own that wasn't possible before.

Will The Hollies be given similar treatment via this technology? It would be great but I'm not holding my breath either.

[gee]

I suspect a large part of the reason for both BBC and EMI junkings was that these concerns were run pretty much along the lines of the British Civil Service dominated by older very 'establishment' figures, often knighted or titled people, those who 'knew better' re music and largely believed that Rock & Roll was NOT here to stay (even Ringo was still talking about "getting a proper job next year..." even after Beatlemania !)

so the general view from many of those above filtering on down through managerial staff even well into the sixties was that this youth music would soon fade away (look how popular film and theater soundtracks were in those days with 'The Sound of Music' outselling The Beatles and middle of the road singers like Val Doonican being the one to knock 'Sgt Pepper' off top spot in the UK) , plus back then the times were indeed a changing mega fast, what was 'hip' in 1963 was hoplessly out of date by 1966 ...so who then would bother about 'She Loves You' not being in true stereo ? (many then still only listening in mono - even John Lennon said he always 'thought in mono')

- likewise say BBC back then as Colour TV dawned in the UK assuming children's TV like 'Doctor Who' in black & white plus old out of date pop shows would never be of interest again...

those overriding attitudes that pop/rock music would never last - which to a degree even persisted into the seventies from some senior exec figures - saw less respect afforded to younger groups than say the much prized far more serious viewed classical music, and film / Theater albums plus easy listening etc...

To an extent it was TRUE for a time, in the UK at least - I can recall when 'underground' and album orientated rock bands were going strong in the early seventies older sixties pop records were seen as passe - you could snap up singles, albums by Beatles, Hollies, Manfred Mann, Searchers etc very cheaply in second hand shops...also any old MONO albums as stereo, even fake stereo was the only format of note for several early seventies years

the situation changed dramatically a few years later hence the price increases for sixties albums and the hunt for once common singles as bands, including notably The Hollies began to be re-evaluated (the 'Record Collector' magazine in the early eighties played an important role regarding the earlier sixties music especially being taken alot more seriously)

[Mevrouw Bee]

Aug 9, 2023 21:41:19 GMT gee said:

I suspect a large part of the reason for both BBC and EMI junkings was that these concerns were run pretty much along the lines of the British Civil Service dominated by older very 'establishment' figures, often knighted or titled people, those who 'knew better' re music and largely believed that Rock & Roll was NOT here to stay (even Ringo was still talking about "getting a proper job next year..." even after Beatlemania !)

so the general view from many of those above filtering on down through managerial staff even well into the sixties was that this youth music would soon fade away (look how popular film and theater soundtracks were in those days with 'The Sound of Music' outselling The Beatles and middle of the road singers like Val Doonican being the one to knock 'Sgt Pepper' off top spot in the UK) , plus back then the times were indeed a changing mega fast, what was 'hip' in 1963 was hoplessly out of date by 1966 ...so who then would bother about 'She Loves You' not being in true stereo ? (many then still only listening in mono - even John Lennon said he always 'thought in mono')

- likewise say BBC back then as Colour TV dawned in the UK assuming children's TV like 'Doctor Who' in black & white plus old out of date pop shows would never be of interest again...

those overriding attitudes that pop/rock music would never last - which to a degree even persisted into the seventies from some senior exec figures - saw less respect afforded to younger groups than say the much prized far more serious viewed classical music, and film / Theater albums plus easy listening etc...

To an extent it was TRUE for a time, in the UK at least - I can recall when 'underground' and album orientated rock bands were going strong in the early seventies older sixties pop records were seen as passe - you could snap up singles, albums by Beatles, Hollies, Manfred Mann, Searchers etc very cheaply in second hand shops...also any old MONO albums as stereo, even fake stereo was the only format of note for several early seventies years

the situation changed dramatically a few years later hence the price increases for sixties albums and the hunt for once common singles as bands, including notably The Hollies began to be re-evaluated (the 'Record Collector' magazine in the early eighties played an important role regarding the earlier sixties music especially being taken alot more seriously)

Around the same time the Boomers became nostalgic for their youth. 

[cameron]

Wow thanks for pointing out the remix of 'Tomorrow' baz , that's one of my favourite albums that I could only dream of affording an original mono first pressing! The Parlophone coloured vinyl mono repress must be a dub from the original vinyl if the mastertape doesn't survive of the mono mix? I'm a die-hard stereo fan, regardless of how "wonky" it sounds, usually as it offers more clarity and detail over mono, but this album is an exception. Seemingly the multi-tracks were gone before the album was even compiled as about half of the original LP was presented in truly woeful fake stereo. 'White Bicycle', for example, just pans around the stereo field for the sound effects and chorus, pulling all the way to one channel for the verses! Awful stuff. I shall be checking out the new version!

As for EMI throwing away multi-tracks, you kind of can see their logic when every other musical "fad" had disappeared as quickly as it appeared up to that point. By 1971 when they began to trash a lot of them, bands like Peter and Gordon and Freddie and the Dreamers were long consigned to the history books and sounded hopelessly out of date by then. Likewise, the beat-boom era material, as great as it was, seemed old fashioned by then. You can understand the logic in thinking that they wouldn't need them. I don't think it was until the Beatles' red and blue albums sold so well in 1973, combined with George Martin pulling out the multi-tracks to create new stereo mixes for some of the tracks to present them in true stereo or improved stereo, that EMI began to see value in older material. Also during this era, the Hollies' back catalogue was largely reissued on budget EMI labels and was selling very well. Albums like 'Reflections', 'I Can't Let Go' and 'The Hollies' kept 'Hollies (1965)', 'Would You Believe' and 'Evolution' respectively in print for years, despite truly woeful artwork. I think 'Reflections' probably ranks on par with the US 'Moving Finger' artwork as being the worst ever associated with the Hollies.

We don't know exactly what's missing and what survives by the Hollies. According to those in the know, the established sessionography we have of the Hollies is full of errors and is missing a lot of unreleased stuff, though there's been no updates with what's available. It's also quite vague as it doesn't reveal if some of the tracks are working versions or final takes. In addition to the missing 'I'm Alive' and 'Jennifer Eccles' multi-tracks (I didn't know that the latter was missing!), 'Look Through Any Window' is also one that's gone. Someone once said that junior engineers were invited to play with the multi-tracks in 1971/2 before they were destroyed, and that's allegedly where the alternative stereo mix of 'Look Through Any Window' with the extra backing vocals comes from. I reckon the Hollies' stuff survived as they were still a current hit making band in 1971/2, and they owned their tapes from late 1966 onwards. 

[baz]

Aug 11, 2023 11:13:47 GMT cameron said:

Wow thanks for pointing out the remix of 'Tomorrow' baz , that's one of my favourite albums that I could only dream of affording an original mono first pressing! The Parlophone coloured vinyl mono repress must be a dub from the original vinyl if the mastertape doesn't survive of the mono mix? I'm a die-hard stereo fan, regardless of how "wonky" it sounds, usually as it offers more clarity and detail over mono, but this album is an exception. Seemingly the multi-tracks were gone before the album was even compiled as about half of the original LP was presented in truly woeful fake stereo. 'White Bicycle', for example, just pans around the stereo field for the sound effects and chorus, pulling all the way to one channel for the verses! Awful stuff. I shall be checking out the new version! 

Be warned about the Steve Howe mix otherwise you may be disappointed. First, he totally changed the track order and with it removed "Colonel Brown", "Shy Boy" and "Auntie Mary's Dress Shop" whilst adding "Why", "Claramount Lake", "Caught In A Web aka Now Your Time Has Come" and the alternate version of "Real Life Permanent Dream". To be fair, the new running order does flow well but...

Worse, he's made a few edits - "Revolution" has sections missing they come as a shock as you suddenly think "Huh? Where did that bit vanish to?". Then for some inexplicable reason given he adopts an anti-stereo stance, he applies stereo flanging on the freaky parts of "My White Bicycle". A very mixed bag and a fair few of us are not impressed with his revisions. Howe has always despised the stereo mix and feels they're best heard in mono which I respect but his attempt to re-present that album in mono could have been better done... the cover especially is absolutely awful and ill-fitting!

[gee]

EMI's budget re-issue series was going strong for a few years before 1973 and those Beatles albums and they did have an idea of the works they held however back then the key word was STEREO hence all the fake stereo re-chanelling they did tho' true stereo (no matter how basic) was used where possible but some mono only albums were re-issued in that format


'Reflection' was the first release of the stereo version of 'Hollies' (1965) on the budget Regal Starline label in 1969, while 'Stop Stop Stop' (stereo 'For Certain Because...') was released in 1971 and 'The Hollies' (stereo 'Evolution') was issued on music for pleasure label in 1972

EMI also had re-released on Regal Starline stereo 'Mann Made' of 1965  (Manfred Mann) plus a fine mostly true stereo MM compilation; 'The Greatest Hits; 1963-66' (on music for pleasure label) , a re-channelled stereo 'The Animals' first album (1964) - also a 'Most of The Animals' best of set on music for pleasure - and compilations by The Shadows ('Somethin' Else'), The Beach Boys ('Bug In') - also 'The Beach Boys' compilation and re-issues of stereo 'All Summer Long' (1964) & 'Beach Boys (Today- 1965)' on music for pleasure , a 'Sound of The Seekers', and a rare true stereo versions compilation; 'The Best of The Dave Clark Five' which were on on Regal Starline circa 1969-70 plus a DC5 compilation 'Play Good Old Rock & Roll' on Starline in 1971 together with a mono re-issue of 'Session With The DC5' (1964) on music for pleasure in the late sixties while mfp did two Shadows compilation LPs of rare stereo tracks between 1969 and 1972 ('Walkin' with...' / 'Mustang') and some Cliff Richard compilations and album re-issues were on Regal Starline, music for pleasure and EMI's sister budget label Sounds Superb.

A now sought after 'Remember...The Yardbirds' best of 12 track set spilt equally between tracks featuring Eric Clapton and Jeff Beck was on Starline circa 1971

Gerry & The Pacemakers first album (1963), plus the second Freddie & The Dreamers album (1964), The Swinging Blue Jeans debut album (1964),  and a Billy J.Kramer with The Dakotas compilation (titled; 'Billy Boy') were all issued in mono on music for pleasure in the late sixties too plus Cliff Bennett & The Rebel Rousers ('Drivin You Wild') and Kenny Lynch ('We Like Kenny') also both in mono.

Hermans Hermits had two volumes of 'The Most of...' on mfp 

A noteworthy Pink Floyd compilation 'Relics' was released on Starline in 1971 and a Barclay James Harvest compilation 'Early Morning Onwards' followed not long after on Starline in 1972

so a full on rolling UK programme of budget priced re-issues and some fine compilations was going from around 1969 onwards well before the 'Red' and 'Blue' Beatles albums Allen Klein oversaw in 1973

The second Hollies album of late 1964 had been issued in stereo as 'The Vintage Hollies' even earlier in 1967 on EMI's World Records label

I think EMI were pretty on the ball re reissuing either albums or compiling sets of earlier material  in their budget priced ranges from the late sixties onwards probably essentially to try to grab some extra cash from deleted sixties albums etc from those who had recently got a new stereo system.

[moorlock2003]

Aug 11, 2023 12:07:50 GMT baz said:

Aug 11, 2023 11:13:47 GMT cameron said:

Wow thanks for pointing out the remix of 'Tomorrow' baz , that's one of my favourite albums that I could only dream of affording an original mono first pressing! The Parlophone coloured vinyl mono repress must be a dub from the original vinyl if the mastertape doesn't survive of the mono mix? I'm a die-hard stereo fan, regardless of how "wonky" it sounds, usually as it offers more clarity and detail over mono, but this album is an exception. Seemingly the multi-tracks were gone before the album was even compiled as about half of the original LP was presented in truly woeful fake stereo. 'White Bicycle', for example, just pans around the stereo field for the sound effects and chorus, pulling all the way to one channel for the verses! Awful stuff. I shall be checking out the new version! 

Be warned about the Steve Howe mix otherwise you may be disappointed. First, he totally changed the track order and with it removed "Colonel Brown", "Shy Boy" and "Auntie Mary's Dress Shop" whilst adding "Why", "Claramount Lake", "Caught In A Web aka Now Your Time Has Come" and the alternate version of "Real Life Permanent Dream". To be fair, the new running order does flow well but...

Worse, he's made a few edits - "Revolution" has sections missing they come as a shock as you suddenly think "Huh? Where did that bit vanish to?". Then for some inexplicable reason given he adopts an anti-stereo stance, he applies stereo flanging on the freaky parts of "My White Bicycle". A very mixed bag and a fair few of us are not impressed with his revisions. Howe has always despised the stereo mix and feels they're best heard in mono which I respect but his attempt to re-present that album in mono could have been better done... the cover especially is absolutely awful and ill-fitting!

My White Bicycle is found in stereo (with the panning back and forth) on the “My Generation” comp that came out in the late 70s (I’d have to dig out my copy to get the exact year). That LP also has the only appearance of The Roulettes’ “The Long Cigarette” in stereo. The 1976 US reissue of the Tomorrow LP has Keith West’s solo hit “Excerpt from a Teenage Opera” added to Side 1.

[baz]

Aug 14, 2023 3:27:45 GMT moorlock2003 said:

My White Bicycle is found in stereo (with the panning back and forth) on the “My Generation” comp that came out in the late 70s (I’d have to dig out my copy to get the exact year). That LP also has the only appearance of The Roulettes’ “The Long Cigarette” in stereo. The 1976 US reissue of the Tomorrow LP has Keith West’s solo hit “Excerpt from a Teenage Opera” added to Side 1.

That came out in 1976, one of the best compilations ever, just a pity it came out during the fake stereo era yet as you point out it does have "The Long Cigarette" in true stereo which I certainly have never encountered anywhere else and same for The Boston Crabs' "Gin House" which is another unexpected surprise. One of those rare compilations that managed to pick my personal faves and essentials by the likes of The Action, Locomotive, Yardbirds, Downliners Sect, Artwoods and The Moles.

[moorlock2003]

Aug 14, 2023 9:38:32 GMT baz said:

Aug 14, 2023 3:27:45 GMT moorlock2003 said:

My White Bicycle is found in stereo (with the panning back and forth) on the “My Generation” comp that came out in the late 70s (I’d have to dig out my copy to get the exact year). That LP also has the only appearance of The Roulettes’ “The Long Cigarette” in stereo. The 1976 US reissue of the Tomorrow LP has Keith West’s solo hit “Excerpt from a Teenage Opera” added to Side 1.

That came out in 1976, one of the best compilations ever, just a pity it came out during the fake stereo era yet as you point out it does have "The Long Cigarette" in true stereo which I certainly have never encountered anywhere else and same for The Boston Crabs' "Gin House" which is another unexpected surprise. One of those rare compilations that managed to pick my personal faves and essentials by the likes of The Action, Locomotive, Yardbirds, Downliners Sect, Artwoods and The Moles.

One of my favorites on the LP is the highly-touted “I Could feel the whole world go round” by Shotgun Express.