|
|
Post by anthony on May 25, 2023 0:20:16 GMT
Hi All,
I saw Carl Wayne as lead singer with the Hollies here in Melbourne 2001.
I'm sure a big section of the members here have also seen this line up.
My question how did you think he went as the lead singer?
We all agree Allan was the voice of the Hollies,
Rickfors was a great lead singer, but it was a different Hollies sound.
Peter Howarth doesn't get that many thumbs up with the so-called real Hollies fans.
that's fine.
For me Carl has a great voice, he knew how to work a crowd, but for me it was more like Carl and the Hollies.
Would like to hear your views. Here is a clip of a sound check with Carl.
|
|
|
|
Post by dirtyfaz on May 26, 2023 9:14:12 GMT
I was fortunate enough to see the Carl Wayne Hollies 3 time. Melbourne, Sydney and Twin Towns on the Gold Coast. Got to sit in on the soundcheck in Melbourne and had a chat with Carl and a couple of the other guys. He was a lovely guy and very friendly. Tony was a bit aloof and didn't show much interest in the fans there. It would have been interesting the see where the band might have gone with Carl. I don't necessarily agree that Allan was the voice of the Hollies as the others singers that replace his were fine in their own rights and for their time in the band. As we all know here Peter Howarth is the one I haven't been able to warm to.
|
|
|
|
Post by anthony on May 26, 2023 9:33:41 GMT
That sound check would have been great, Carl did have a reputation of being a really nice guy and Tony of being aloof and not interested in any interaction with fans. I remember the Hollies singing Flowers in the rain as well as tiger feet. I do remember Carl paying tribute to Allan Clarke and calling Tony Anthony Hicks.
|
|
|
|
Post by gee on May 26, 2023 22:34:18 GMT
In some ways it was probably;
The Hollies with Special Guest: Carl Wayne
Carl was so famous from his days in The Move and had such a distinctive voice plus tremendous onstage charisma he really stood out as a 'known name' figure singing with the group
Carl's likeable relaxed confident onstage persona really shone compared to the rest of the group who were very much 'musicians' not 'showmen'
I think Ray once commented that it was alot more challenging with Carl who liked to alter things more show to show as opposed to just reeling off songs in a set manner each concert...
Carl did his own angle on 'Soldier's Song' plus got them to do
'The Baby' which he loved while Tony openly admitted;
'we'd pretty much forgotten it..!'
they saluted The Move with several classic hits sung in alternation plus Ray sang Mud's chart topper 'Tiger Feet' and Alan Coates sang 'Butterfly'
Carl came onstage with the group no more 'last figure taking the stage' angle that Allan later had, and while sounding different of course Carl sang those classic Hollies hits really well - he had a MUCH more powerful voice than those famous Move hits suggest !
I think having Alan Coates in the band was a key factor then - a very underrated Hollies harmony vocalist both with Allan and Carl and 'Coatsey's contribution to the harmonies was a vital aspect when Carl was singing lead
in my view had Alan Coates not departed when he did the Peter Howarth era line up might have sounded far stronger vocally and more like The Hollies recognisable vocal sound
Bobby has said he really wished the planned album with Carl had not fallen through..
|
|
|
|
Post by baz on May 26, 2023 23:48:20 GMT
Bobby has said he really wished the planned album with Carl had not fallen through.. A real shame as I sure would have liked to hear more than the paltry below par solitary track they did record. An awkward one as otherwise apart from those who saw the live shows and the video snippets that are around, Carl has no real recorded legacy with The Hollies from which we can make honest judgements hence why I can't really make any comments on what he brought to the band musically. It did seem intriguing as his voice was different to Allan's but was a great powerful vocalist in his own right - he's one reason why The Move's "Shazam" is one of my fave albums as some of his vocal work on that is extremely powerful and was a shame he left The Move when that album finally came out. Sadder still was he wanted to form a new version of The Move in 1972 featuring Ace Kefford and Trevor Burton but Roy Wood refused point blank to let him do it. Carl was the one guy who managed to hold The Move's legacy together as he remained on good terms with all the ex-members and there was some kind of unity and that all fell apart when he was gone. It was Carl who was the driving force behind finding what tapes could be found to help remind everyone what a great band they were and the 2007 remaster campaign and boxset all credited Carl as the man who made it all possible. Interesting perspectives on offer here - Carl and The Hollies or The Hollies with special guest Carl Wayne. Whilst that incarnation was in existence, I did wonder how it sounded and panned out as when I first heard that Carl had joined, I found it an interesting choice as Carl was a renowned showman and talent in his own right and every bit as experienced as Tony, Bobby and Ray. Sadly there is no album from which we can judge a Carl fronted Hollies and for me, yet another on the long list of Hollies missed opportunities. |
|
|
|
Post by Mevrouw Bee on May 27, 2023 8:22:38 GMT
Bobby has said he really wished the planned album with Carl had not fallen through.. A real shame as I sure would have liked to hear more than the paltry below par solitary track they did record. An awkward one as otherwise apart from those who saw the live shows and the video snippets that are around, Carl has no real recorded legacy with The Hollies from which we can make honest judgements hence why I can't really make any comments on what he brought to the band musically. It did seem intriguing as his voice was different to Allan's but was a great powerful vocalist in his own right - he's one reason why The Move's "Shazam" is one of my fave albums as some of his vocal work on that is extremely powerful and was a shame he left The Move when that album finally came out. Sadder still was he wanted to form a new version of The Move in 1972 featuring Ace Kefford and Trevor Burton but Roy Wood refused point blank to let him do it. Carl was the one guy who managed to hold The Move's legacy together as he remained on good terms with all the ex-members and there was some kind of unity and that all fell apart when he was gone. It was Carl who was the driving force behind finding what tapes could be found to help remind everyone what a great band they were and the 2007 remaster campaign and boxset all credited Carl as the man who made it all possible. Interesting perspectives on offer here - Carl and The Hollies or The Hollies with special guest Carl Wayne. Whilst that incarnation was in existence, I did wonder how it sounded and panned out as when I first heard that Carl had joined, I found it an interesting choice as Carl was a renowned showman and talent in his own right and every bit as experienced as Tony, Bobby and Ray. Sadly there is no album from which we can judge a Carl fronted Hollies and for me, yet another on the long list of Hollies missed opportunities. Nobody recorded a live set? Damn. That Carl was able to keep the old Hollies fans plus attract new ones (Move fans, westend stage fans) to the band says a lot about him. Did Peter bring a built-in fan base himself I wonder? |
|
|
|
Post by gee on May 27, 2023 12:12:43 GMT
There was a rumour going around at the time that The Hollies had cut a new studio version of 'Bus Stop' sung by Carl but no official record of it appears to exist so we can only guess if they ever did...
EMI WERE apparently onboard for an album to begin with but for various reasons - business more than anything musical I believe - it failed to happen...such a great shame
'How Do I Survive' was for me a very average song by Paul Bliss - Alan Coates was unavailable for the session so we do not get to hear the Wayne-Hicks-Coates harmonies !
|
|
|
|
Post by baz on May 27, 2023 13:07:35 GMT
'How Do I Survive' was for me a very average song by Paul Bliss - Alan Coates was unavailable for the session so we do not get to hear the Wayne-Hicks-Coates harmonies ! Amazing. One track and even that's not at all representative of Carl's era of The Hollies. Unbelievable! What was the reason behind Alan Coates opting to leave? |
|
|
|
Post by johnt on May 27, 2023 14:34:22 GMT
I quite enjoyed the Carl Wayne era of The Hollies as I was also a fan of The Move in the 60s. Carl had a strong and powerful voice and had presence on stage. i remember them singing Flowers In The Rain and I Can Hear The Grass Grow. I saw him quite a few times and he had a routine where he went on a walkabout outside the concert hall just before the start of a concert probably to calm any nerves. He also used to keep his harmonica in a box on the stage in front of Bobby's drums and carefully got it out of the box just before the start of He Ain't Heavy. I heard a story where someone in the band (I don't know who) had replaced it with a Mars bar at one concert! Carl always had time for the fans and I will always treasure this photo taken at a Hollies convention a year before his death:  |
|
|
|
Post by johnt on May 27, 2023 14:40:31 GMT
'How Do I Survive' was for me a very average song by Paul Bliss - Alan Coates was unavailable for the session so we do not get to hear the Wayne-Hicks-Coates harmonies ! Amazing. One track and even that's not at all representative of Carl's era of The Hollies. Unbelievable! What was the reason behind Alan Coates opting to leave? Alan Coates left The Hollies to concentrate on running his own music company (together with his wife Kim) which was originally called The Voice and Music Company, now known as Soho Square Studios in London. |
|
|
|
Post by sandy on May 27, 2023 16:17:35 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by gee on May 27, 2023 22:51:14 GMT
I believe The Hollies Limited were recording concerts from the 80's onwards as a matter of 'the norm' with Allan Clarke, Carl Wayne and later - whether any of these survive is another matter of course....
John is spot on about Alan Coates abrupt departure from The Hollies in 2004 just after Carl's passing
wiki incorrectly states Alan Coates was on 'How Do I Survive' but Tim Chacksfield (who I believe was there) told me that Alan was unable to attend the recording session - you can't hear his distinctive high harmony voice on it at all - that 'new' song was only used as at the time EMI were unable to obtain 'Stop in The Name of Love' from WEA Records for inclusion on 'The Hollies Greatest Hits' 2CD set.
I was told that Alan, his wife singer/actress Kim Goody ( she is featured in an episode of the TV show 'Return of The Saint' starring Ian Ogilvy titled; 'The Roman Touch' playing a troubled singing star named 'Michelle' and she also had a small role in an episode of 'The Professionals' too) and another associate had / have the recording studio - then Alan and Kim got a very lucrative offer from a major TV company to produce both TV and radio themes
I later spotted Alan and Kim credited as doing the theme tune for the young children's TV show 'Roary The Racing Car' ! (my sister's young Grandson's fav TV show hence she had it on for him) - this is confirmed on wiki which states Alan and Kim have written theme music for BBC, SKY Sports, SKY News, BBC Radio Five and BBC News
This offer was obviously far too good to refuse but meant that Alan would have to leave the group to devote his time fully to the work - Tony and Bobby understood and Alan Coates departure was apparently quite amicable (unusual for The Hollies)
Alan had just been included in the first Hollies promotional photo with new singer Peter Howarth so it was quite a sudden thing with the TV work job offer appearing
I don't blame Alan at all of course, he had given The Hollies loyal service since 1981 and full time from 1984 but it was a pity the band lost his services as besides great high harmonies, fine lead vocals, and strong guitarwork he was a decent songwriter whom they never used but his song for Allan Clarke 'Reasons To Believe in' showed his ability as a composer
Alan Coates here providing close harmony and high harmony vocals to Allan's lead (much as Graham Nash has just done now)
|
|
|
|
Post by baz on May 27, 2023 23:38:58 GMT
Thanks all for filling me in on Alan Coates and his departure from The Hollies. It did seem rather abrupt given he'd been there for 20 years as it came at a strange moment given Carl had just died and Peter was recruited. With The Hollies' history being sometimes turbulent where departures are concerned it did get me wondering, so good to know it was actually a friendly one where Alan followed the path of his own choosing. A shame too as the harmonies in the band haven't quite been the same since then.
|
|
|
|
Post by gee on May 27, 2023 23:50:10 GMT
it might have seemed the loss of Carl and Alan Coates departure were linked like Terry & Bernie's exit in 1981 but this time it was a pure co-incidence as that one Hollies publicity photo featuring Alan Coates and Peter Howarth together proved with NO intention at that point for any other personnel change envisaged...until Alan and Kim got their TV job offer
so for the first time two vocalists had to be replaced very close together - Peter said onstage that Steve Lauri joined the band a week after he did !
maybe it was a quick decision to recruit Steve ? (unlike say Terry Sylvester being picked from a number of auditions in late 1968) and perhaps they should have auditioned more - Steve is a fine guitarist and decent lead singer but for me his high harmonies are really not that distinctive when compared to Nash, Sylvester or Coates 'soaring' high harmony voices that stood out - as did Allan Clarke's high harmony voice)
|
|
|
|
Post by Mevrouw Bee on May 28, 2023 8:26:16 GMT
There was a rumour going around at the time that The Hollies had cut a new studio version of 'Bus Stop' sung by Carl but no official record of it appears to exist so we can only guess if they ever did... I'm positive I heard it once years ago compliments of Helen MacDonald. |
|
|
|
Post by JamesT on May 28, 2023 8:30:19 GMT
one Hollies publicity photo featuring Alan Coates and Peter Howarth together Anyone care to share this? I think it appeared on the old forum a good few years back. |
|
albatros
Full Member
albatros
Posts: 108
|
Post by albatros on May 31, 2023 20:32:02 GMT
Hello everyone!
The Hi-Harmonies parts by Alan Coates that was absolutely great. I was able to see the band live with him a few times. I particularly liked the 1990 tour. You could tell that Clarke's voice had faded. Coates was also an absolutely very good guitarist.
Carl Wayne - I was in the audience at his first appearance with the Hollies on July 7th, 2000 in Sindelfingen at Mercedes Benz, Germany. I came here with mixed feelings. Back then, Carl Wayne surprised me more than just positively. It was a super nice evening that you won't forget. Too bad Carl Wayne had to die so young. Why the Hollies allegedly only recorded 1 song with him in 4 years has always been incomprehensible to me. Carl Wayne taped some of the Hollies' great songs himself. If you are looking for this concert on July 7, 2000 - send me an e-mail to
kraft.alfons@web.de
|
|
|
|
Post by gee on May 31, 2023 21:23:28 GMT
Giving us a taste of how The 'Carl Wayne' Hollies album would have sounded vocally....
Carl, Tony, Alan Coates & Ray Stiles singing
'It's in Every One of Us'
|
|
|
|
Post by gee on May 31, 2023 21:36:05 GMT
and Carl's recording session version of
'Soldier's Song'
|
|
albatros
Full Member
albatros
Posts: 108
|
Post by albatros on Jun 10, 2023 20:59:34 GMT
In some ways it was probably; The Hollies with Special Guest: Carl Wayne Carl was so famous from his days in The Move and had such a distinctive voice plus tremendous onstage charisma he really stood out as a 'known name' figure singing with the group Carl's likeable relaxed confident onstage persona really shone compared to the rest of the group who were very much 'musicians' not 'showmen' I think Ray once commented that it was alot more challenging with Carl who liked to alter things more show to show as opposed to just reeling off songs in a set manner each concert... Carl did his own angle on 'Soldier's Song' plus got them to do 'The Baby' which he loved while Tony openly admitted; 'we'd pretty much forgotten it..!' they saluted The Move with several classic hits sung in alternation plus Ray sang Mud's chart topper 'Tiger Feet' and Alan Coates sang 'Butterfly' Carl came onstage with the group no more 'last figure taking the stage' angle that Allan later had, and while sounding different of course Carl sang those classic Hollies hits really well - he had a MUCH more powerful voice than those famous Move hits suggest ! I think having Alan Coates in the band was a key factor then - a very underrated Hollies harmony vocalist both with Allan and Carl and 'Coatsey's contribution to the harmonies was a vital aspect when Carl was singing lead in my view had Alan Coates not departed when he did the Peter Howarth era line up might have sounded far stronger vocally and more like The Hollies recognisable vocal sound Bobby has said he really wished the planned album with Carl had not fallen through.. |
|
albatros
Full Member
albatros
Posts: 108
|
Post by albatros on Jun 10, 2023 21:05:49 GMT
Hi Gee! yes you have right Carl Wayne was a great singer with a great voice. And yes, he did all the songs like Flowers in the rain, The Baby, Tiger Feet (Ray Stiles), Blackberry Way, I Can Hear The Gras grow on the 2000 UK Tour. A real great evening with Carl Wayne. I have such one in stock. A shame that they did not make an album with him.
|
|
|
|
Post by gee on Jun 10, 2023 22:14:48 GMT
A guy I knew who was involved in The Fortunes Appreciation Society told me on the phone how he was at one of The Hollies concerts where the now sadly also late John Miles deputised for Allan....and he saw Carl Wayne there
they got chatting, Carl was very friendly and must have known this guy via The Fortunes as he chatted quite openly, saying Tony had approached Carl then re standing in for Allan however Carl politely declined feeling 'Clarkey' was an impossible act to follow - however he also said seeing what a fine job John Miles was doing onstage with the group he was now wishing he had accepted Tony's offer to sing with The Hollies...
obviously when the chance came along again later in 1999 Carl didn't hesitate...
|
|
