trask
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Post by trask on Apr 13, 2023 23:37:35 GMT
New member here!
During my rollicking, misadventurous youth, I got deep into the catalogs of a number of UK beat groups, including the Fabs, Stones, Kinks, Who, Zombies, Small Faces, and Yardbirds.
The Hollies were one of those pop combos who were perpetually on my "I need to check these guys out" list. I of course knew the hits, and I had two greatest hits collections: The 12-track LP on Epic from the mid-70s, and budget 80s reissue on EMI that had 10 tracks, but that was the extent of it.
When everyone was unloading vinyl in the 1990s, I picked up some original Hollies albums on Imperial and Epic, in various states of condition, but never spent a huge amount of time with them.
Ms. Trask shares my interest in beat groups, so I picked up for her the 6-CD EMI clamshell collection focused on the Graham Nash years. This set, as you know, runs in chronological order according to recording date, and it purports to contain everything from this period. The mono/stereo content is a grab bag.
I have randomly inserted discs from this set here and there, but I really like listening to original albums. So, using this collection, I have created playlists using the running orders of the Hollies' 7 UK albums. I am not one of those who defaults to the "UK catalog is automatically better" philosophy, but with the Hollies, this may be the case, especially considering the fact that one of their early UK albums was skipped entirely in the US.
After each album on the respective playlist, I add the singles, B-sides and stray tracks to each. In situations where an alternate arrangement exists, I add the alternate to the playlist of an adjacent album, so as not to repeat tracks within a playlist.
So, I would like to use this thread to go through these albums chronologically and share my thoughts. I recognize the fact that I will not necessarily receive these albums as I may have when I was, say 12 or 16 or 20, but I feel that I know enough about UK rock/pop from that era to contextualize the albums and make some, um, elevated observations about them.
I plan to post an album, share my thoughts, and then we can all share our opinions on them.
Let me know if there is any interest in this, or if it has already been done a zillion times.
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Post by kitch71 on Apr 14, 2023 5:40:05 GMT
Hi and welcome, this sounds like a good idea to me!
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Post by gee on Apr 14, 2023 21:33:38 GMT
Always interesting to read someone's view on the albums
The UK Albums (as with say Beatles, Stones etc) were how the group intended them to be where as in other countries often track listings were 'chopped about' with usually a hit single inserted where applicable for the better sales angle, and as you say stateside Hollies albums were in some cases unissued (that was still the case even in the seventies) or sometimes had songs left out for various reasons...
so while the UK versions might not necessarily be 'better' as such (which is all a matter of individual opinion), they were what The Hollies themselves actually intended at the time
in the case of 'Butterfly' it's really worth listening to both the mono and stereo versions as the two mixes have such notable differences on quite a number of the songs
In the case of the so called 'Nash era' of 1963-1968 going through the original UK albums in chronological order does give you an observation of how the group 'evolved' musically - the refinement to their vocal sound is very apparent between the first and second albums - developing from a 'Beat Boom' / 'British Invasion' outfit playing Rock & Roll, commercial pop music, through folk, soul, and country influences into an original band with their own creative approach showing increasing experimentation and imagination as they moved through the swinging sixties...
hope you enjoy the fascinating musical journey...!
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trask
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Post by trask on Apr 14, 2023 22:16:03 GMT
Always interesting to read someone's view on the albums The UK Albums (as with say Beatles, Stones etc) were how the group intended them to be where as in other countries often track listings were 'chopped about' with usually a hit single inserted where applicable for the better sales angle, and as you say stateside Hollies albums were in some cases unissued (that was still the case even in the seventies) or sometimes had songs left out for various reasons... so while the UK versions might not necessarily be 'better' as such (which is all a matter of individual opinion), they were what The Hollies themselves actually intended at the time in the case of 'Butterfly' it's really worth listening to both the mono and stereo versions as the two mixes have such notable differences on quite a number of the songs In the case of the so called 'Nash era' of 1963-1968 going through the original UK albums in chronological order does give you an observation of how the group 'evolved' musically - the refinement to their vocal sound is very apparent between the first and second albums - developing from a 'Beat Boom' / 'British Invasion' outfit playing Rock & Roll, commercial pop music, through folk, soul, and country influences into an original band with their own creative approach showing increasing experimentation and imagination as they moved through the swinging sixties... hope you enjoy the fascinating musical journey...! Thank you! You probably know that, in general, British Invasion-era US albums typically included fewer tracks because of how publishing was calculated in the US; and that UK albums typically omitted the concurrent single, because of the way chart positions of singles were calculated in the UK. Regarding the Stones, Andrew Loog Oldham assembled both the US and UK albums, according to these market realities, and this is at least part of the reason that many Stones fans prefer the US albums, at least through December's Children. (The US/UK Aftermath and Buttons are IMO a wash: they both have their advantages.) Two things that are weird to me about the Hollies US catalogs are the complete omission of In the Hollies' Style; and the fact that several early tracks appeared on the 1966 Bus Stop album. So that informed my decision to go with the UK albums for my journey. We can of course discuss US counterparts along the way. Tomorrow or the next day, I will post about Stay with the Hollies and share my thoughts. I look forward to hearing the opinions of folks who have lived with these albums longer than I have!
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Post by knut on Apr 15, 2023 6:26:29 GMT
Interesting project, my fellow fan! Since I am located in Norway we had the UK LPs here. Also a Swedish compilation that included 4 otherwise unavailable tracks from the first UK EP. Later I bought the I'm alive EP to get Honey and wine. Then I had to write to a US relative to get Beat Group that had A Taste of honey. We were able to buy the German "stereo" versions of the 2nd and 3rd UK LPs, but as Gee states the most Interesting differences occurred on later LPs, where different takes were used, as for Stay on Hollies Greatest.
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Post by gee on Apr 15, 2023 22:20:48 GMT
Just something you may want to consider...
A major point in the sixties 'Nash era' UK albums is the mono and stereo versions
Overall 'Stay With...' actually has a pretty decent stereo version and a few little alternates on some tracks to the better known mono version, apparently the stereo version sold very poorly in the UK hence the following three albums initially were released only in mono format
- the second album appeared in stereo renamed 'The Vintage Hollies' in 1967, the third as 'Reflection' in 1969, while 'Would You Believe ?' was only in mono in mid 1966 and later was issued in stereo early in 1967 (actually coming out after 'For Certain Because...')
the band's second, third, fourth albums and their sixth studio album were all given the dreaded ultra basic (probably cheaper !) stereo mix of:'vocals put on one channel plus a lone instrument' / 'overall instruments put on the other channel'- which sounded very strange especially on headphones...
...hence years later EMI were totally against using those basic stereo mixes and why quite a lot of Nash era tracks were in mono on that 'Clarke Hicks Nash Years' CD set.
in contrast the fifth album 'For Certain Because...' in 1966 had overall a much better stereo mix - very strange the following set 'Evolution' in June 1967 reverted to the ultra basic stereo
so you may want to consider the mono versions first which were overall the better prepared ones, or maybe cover both mono and stereo for each
'Butterfly' saw Graham Nash involved in the stereo mixing which probably accounts for both a much better stereo sound, plus fascinating track differences to the mono version
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trask
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Post by trask on Apr 15, 2023 23:08:47 GMT
Stay with the Hollies
OK, so let’s start the discussion, If we’re up for it, with Stay with the Hollies.
Because I am trying to absorb an awful lot of music for the first time, I am prepared to talk about the 14 tracks that appear on the UK LP. I am counting an additional 14 tracks from roughly the same era - singles, B-sides, EP tracks, and rarities - that I am happy to address separately after discussion of the debut album. Again, I’m having to process all of this in bite-sized chunks.
So the first album looks like this:
Side 1: Talking 'bout You Mr. Moonlight You Better Move On Lucille Baby Don't Cry Memphis Stay
Side 2: Rockin' Robin Whatcha Gonna Do 'bout It? Do You Love Me It's Only Make Believe What Kind of Girl Are You Little Lover - original Candy Man
This album was recorded in 1963 and released in January 1964.
So, the first thing I notice is that the album is nearly all covers, and that is fine. Early albums by the Stones, Yardbirds, and Animals were also all or mostly covers.
Hollies’ versions aside, I like some of these tunes more than others, and some may have worn out their welcome by 2023, so I am trying to receive this from a 1963-64 perspective, to the extent possible.
The first thing about this album is that the vocals are fantastic, and vocals are certainly one of the things the Hollies are known for. The Hollies rivaled the Beatles in terms of overall vocal capabilities and blend, and dare I say, they may even surpass the 1963 Fabs in certain regards here.
Overall, I think the best tracks here, in terms of tunes and execution, are:
Lucille Memphis Stay Do You Love Me Little Lover Candy Man
I am tempted to add “Talkin' 'bout You” to that list - it almost sounds like the early Stones - but the fact that someone is hitting the tambourine on the 1 and 3 instead of 2 and 4 kind of drives me crazy. Maybe with digital extraction technology, someone can remove the tambourine for us.
The only track I really couldn’t listen to was “What Kind or Girl are You,” which has IMO a clunky rhythm. The group also goes into similar clunky rhythms in parts of “Mr. Moonlight” and “You Better Move On,” and this IMO weakens what may have been stronger tracks.
As I mentioned, I am using the 6-CD inexpensive clamshell box collection for this, and the sources for the tracks vary. To my ears, it sounds like all of these are stereo, except for “Stay,” which sounds mono. I don’t know if these are original stereo mixes or more recent remixes. (Maybe someone knows.)
Onto the instruments: I hear lots of drums and lead guitar. The bass could be a tad louder for my taste, and the rhythm guitar is virtually inaudible for most of the album. When the lead guitar takes a solo, there is a huge hole underneath. I think I hear some faint rhythm guitar in “Mr. Moonlight,” but that’s about it.
The Hollies’ voices are very high and resonant - some may say “piercing” in places - and I think they could have used a beefier instrumental bed, with more bottom end, beneath their vocals on this album, to create contrast, much as you hear on Stones 1964 and 65 recordings. As it is - or at least as it sounds on this collection - it gets to sound tinny and kind of shrill in places.
Overall, this is a very good album for what it is and when it was made. I tried to listen from the perspective of my pre-teen self who wore out his mono copies of Meet the Beatles and The Beatles’ Second Album on his Westinghouse portable record player, and I think this album would have made him very happy at that time.
I welcome your thoughts. As I mentioned, I would prefer to discuss the related tracks separately, just so I can absorb everything.
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Post by dirtyfaz on Apr 16, 2023 7:59:08 GMT
Just as maybe an add on the Gee's comments earlier re the hard left and right stereo versions of the first batch of UK Hollies albums. Even though the stereo generally for the Stay album was OK and due to the popularity of mono through that early to mid 60s, my understanding is that Germany issued the early albums in stereo and they were made to be played on both mono and stereo equipment, the best way to fold down to mono and sound ok was to actually do the stereo hard left and right. Same with the Beatles early albums. I could be wrong with this theory but I think it did achieve the desired results.
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Post by Mevrouw Bee on Apr 16, 2023 8:32:35 GMT
Stay with the HolliesOK, so let’s start the discussion, If we’re up for it, with Stay with the Hollies. Because I am trying to absorb an awful lot of music for the first time, I am prepared to talk about the 14 tracks that appear on the UK LP. I am counting an additional 14 tracks from roughly the same era - singles, B-sides, EP tracks, and rarities - that I am happy to address separately after discussion of the debut album. Again, I’m having to process all of this in bite-sized chunks. So the first album looks like this: Side 1: Talking 'bout You Mr. Moonlight You Better Move On Lucille Baby Don't Cry Memphis Stay Side 2: Rockin' Robin Whatcha Gonna Do 'bout It? Do You Love Me It's Only Make Believe What Kind of Girl Are You Little Lover Candy Man This album was recorded in 1963 and released in January 1964. So, the first thing I notice is that the album is all covers, and that is fine. Early albums by the Stones, Yardbirds, and Animals were also all or mostly covers. Hollies’ versions aside, I like some of these tunes more than others, and some may have worn out their welcome by 2023, so I am trying to receive this from a 1963-64 perspective, to the extent possible. The first thing about this album is that the vocals are fantastic, and vocals are certainly one of the things the Hollies are known for. The Hollies rivaled the Beatles in terms of overall vocal capabilities and blend, and dare I say, they may even surpass the 1963 Fabs in certain regards here. Overall, I think the best tracks here, in terms of tunes and execution, are: Lucille Memphis Stay Do You Love Me Little Lover Candy Man I am tempted to add “Talkin' 'bout You” to that list - it almost sounds like the early Stones - but the fact that someone is hitting the tambourine on the 1 and 3 instead of 2 and 4 kind of drives me crazy. Maybe with digital extraction technology, someone can remove the tambourine for us. The only track I really couldn’t listen to was “What Kind or Girl are You,” which has IMO a clunky rhythm. The group also goes into similar clunky rhythms in parts of “Mr. Moonlight” and “You Better Move On,” and this IMO weakens what may have been stronger tracks. As I mentioned, I am using the 6-CD inexpensive clamshell box collection for this, and the sources for the tracks vary. To my ears, it sounds like all of these are stereo, except for “Stay,” which sounds mono. I don’t know if these are original stereo mixes or more recent remixes. (Maybe someone knows.) Onto the instruments: I hear lots of drums and lead guitar. The bass could be a tad louder for my taste, and the rhythm guitar is virtually inaudible for most of the album. When the lead guitar takes a solo, there is a huge hole underneath. I think I hear some faint rhythm guitar in “Mr. Moonlight,” but that’s about it. The Hollies’ voices are very high and resonant - some may say “piercing” in places - and I think they could have used a beefier instrumental bed, with more bottom end, beneath their vocals on this album, to create contrast, much as you hear on Stones 1964 and 65 recordings. As it is - or at least as it sounds on this collection - it gets to sound tinny and kind of shrill in places. Overall, this is a very good album for what it is and when it was made. I tried to listen from the perspective of my pre-teen self who wore out his mono copies of Meet the Beatles and The Beatles’ Second Album on his Westinghouse portable record player, and I think this album would have made him very happy at that time. I welcome your thoughts. As I mentioned, I would prefer to discuss the related tracks separately, just so I can absorb everything. I like "What Kind Of Girl Are You" for the harmonies myself. It's the album I listen to the least, but the one I wish I could have seem performed live the most...
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Post by knut on Apr 16, 2023 12:30:52 GMT
Little lover was self penned
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trask
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Post by trask on Apr 16, 2023 14:14:52 GMT
Little lover was self penned Thanks! I'll correct that! Interesting that the original is my favorite on the album.
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trask
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Post by trask on Apr 16, 2023 14:34:25 GMT
...the band's second, third, fourth albums and their sixth studio album were all given the dreaded ultra basic (probably cheaper !) stereo mix of:'vocals put on one channel plus a lone instrument' / 'overall instruments put on the other channel'- which sounded very strange especially on headphones... ...so you may want to consider the mono versions first which were overall the better prepared ones, or maybe cover both mono and stereo for each... I generally prefer mono for 1960s rock and pop, at least until around 1968. That said, one of the advantages of the extreme vocal/instrumental separation for me is that I can balance and individually EQ the the two sides to achieve a balance that I like.
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Post by gee on Apr 16, 2023 21:46:59 GMT
'Little Lover' an early Nash-Clarke song is the only track to feature Don Rathbone on drums - he can briefly be seen in the promo film of the song too - which differs to the album version with two guitar solos - while the verses order, plus a stereo version guitar 'run in' intro missing in mono, are notable alternates mono to stereo on the album
Nash's soaring high vocal on 'Talkin' Bout You' is notably much more prominent on the stereo version compared to the mono cut probably due to mixing
The trademark three way harmonies are only featured on some tracks here with Clarke-Nash duets still a notable nod back to the 'Ricky & Dane' days (and ahead to today )
Tony has said early on he would sing along with either Clarke or Nash before Ron Richards defined his lower harmony role in the studio - note on 'Do You Love Me' and 'Rockin' Robin' the Hicks-Nash respond to Clarke's lead approach is used and this would be a noticeable vocal feature they used later, even ten years later with Terry Sylvester on 'It's A Shame It's A Game' and 'Out On The Road' (Clarke version) in the mid seventies !
basically they just cut a prominent chunk of their live set at the time, and the style is raw, a bit over excitable at times, and powering full of energy
the probably 'unplugged' acoustic rhythm guitar loosely strummed is there - CD reveals it more - while Tony's guitar is put well up front in the sound and overall it does seem a guitar/bass/drums sound
Tony's meandering but effective guitar solo on 'It's Only Make Believe' is pretty decent and quite long for 1964 and the cover of this track reflects Allan and Graham's country music taste
'Candy Man' sees their love of Roy Orbison's work plus Allan's harmonica to the fore Allan then still has his Northern accent and they a mega tight as a group both vocally and instrumentally
Graham Nash has a brief couple of solo lead vocal lines on 'Mr Moonlight' ('and now she is mine ...' / 'the night you don't come my way...') while Clarke-Nash handle general lead vocals in duet
a powerful debut set that shot to No.2 in the UK in early 1964 - their best non compilation chart album in their home country this album firmly established them as one of the top 'Beat Boom' outfits
They were not really akin to The Beatles vocal style of alternating mostly one lead vocalist (or on occasion co-lead vocals) with backup vocals support as either two or three part prominently featured harmony vocals were much more The Hollies general approach with at this time one main lead vocalist featured overall plus Bobby's big band influenced drumming and Eric's six string bass guitar runs, and while a love of Rock & Roll is shared more of a clear Everly Brothers influence is apparent at this stage notably on their cover of 'Lucille'
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Post by gee on Apr 16, 2023 22:54:52 GMT
As I said the acoustic rhythm guitar is pretty hard to hear on many tracks but IS actually there !
this 2004 remaster of 'Baby Don't Cry' in stereo reveals the loosely strummed supporting guitar rather more
curious how they put a 'count in' at the conclusion.... here somewhat anticipating the later 'hi hat' intro that instead outros 'Pay You Back With Interest' in 1966
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trask
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Post by trask on May 6, 2023 19:02:27 GMT
As I said the acoustic rhythm guitar is pretty hard to hear on many tracks but IS actually there ! Yes, I can hear it, but it is very low in the mix! Onto the stray tracks from the debut album period. I am counting 14 of them: - (Ain't That) Just Like Me
Hey What's Wrong with Me - original Searchin' Whole World Over - original Now's the Time - original Just One Look Keep off That Friend of Mine - original Here I Go Again Baby That's All - original I Understand - original What Kind of Love - original When I'm Not There - original Zip a Dee Doo Dah Poison Ivy
This is generally a stronger set than the first album, although I could do without "I Understand" and "Zip a Dee."
I like most of the originals here.
The standout track in this group IMO is "Baby That's All."
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Post by irelandcalling4 on May 6, 2023 20:05:27 GMT
Promises to be a wonderful thread with a lot of great reading already.
Reading the initial post, I could have written the exact same in how I absorbed the catalogue when first listening back in 2013. The Clarke/Nash/Hicks set, I too playlisted the albums from that CD set and then compiled separate 'B Sides and Rarities' collections to collect all non album tracks. 'Hollies '67' for example, collecting all non album B Sides/Rarities from that year is one of my favourites. Ditto 'Hollies '68', wonderful stuff indeed.
I discovered them chronologically, album by album. By end 2013 I was up to the excellent Distant Light, and 2014 was a real odyssey into their 70s material (I love the albums up to Russian Roulette, and have a liking for A Crazy Steal).
Stay is a terrific album, one I return to a lot, as I do all of their 60s albums. Covers, yes, but very well played and brilliantly sang. It has a definite charm and energy to it, the rhythm section being particularly strong throughout. That rhythm, for me, sets them apart from Beatles for example, the Hollies of the beat era had the amazing harmonies and the driving, powerful rhythm section.
'When I'm Not There' for example, non album track, the bass, drums and guitar are irresistible. A track I loved on first hearing, still do. Power with a wondrous vocal arrangement.
Their second album improved upon Stay, with more originals than covers. I look forward to the discussion.
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Post by moorlock2003 on May 7, 2023 0:45:08 GMT
The Hollies initially had difficulty getting a hit record in the US. It wasn’t until “Look Through Any Window” that they made the national Top 40, which explains why their 2nd UK album slipped through the cracks in America. Yes, track listings differed, but the American cover designs were mostly an improvement over the rather cheesy looking English album covers. The album Art for the “Beat Group”, “Bus Stop” and “Stop! Stop! Stop!” albums sported particularly nice cover photos.
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Post by The Dude on May 8, 2023 14:45:38 GMT
As I said the acoustic rhythm guitar is pretty hard to hear on many tracks but IS actually there ! Yes, I can hear it, but it is very low in the mix! Onto the stray tracks from the debut album period. I am counting 14 of them: - (Ain't That) Just Like Me
Hey What's Wrong with Me - original Searchin' Whole World Over - original Now's the Time - original Just One Look Keep off That Friend of Mine - original Here I Go Again Baby That's All I Understand What Kind of Love - original When I'm Not There - original Zip a Dee Doo Dah Poison Ivy
This is generally a stronger set than the first album, although I could do without "I Understand" and "Zip a Dee."
I like most of the originals here.
The standout track in this group IMO is "Baby That's All."
"Baby That's All" is an original too, penned under the nom de plume of 'Mann - Chester', which is an obvious link to Manchester...
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Post by irelandcalling4 on May 8, 2023 15:37:22 GMT
'Baby That's All' is wonderful, one of my early favourites
My playlist for In the Hollies Style includes When I'm Not There/Come on Back/Baby that's All/What Kind of Love - all four terrific originals.
Forgotten how good Hollies Style is until re-listening this past few days following this thread.
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trask
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Post by trask on May 8, 2023 19:13:25 GMT
"Baby That's All" is an original too, penned under the nom de plume of 'Mann - Chester', which is an obvious link to Manchester... Thanks for clarifying! I will correct the listing!
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Post by gee on May 8, 2023 21:42:29 GMT
'When I'm Not There' - is an early Tony Hicks penned number which exists in two versions, it almost was the 'B' side to 'Searchin' in 1963 and Parlophone white label demos with this coupling exist
this would have featured Don Rathbone on drums while a second 1964 version featuring Bobby on drums was used as an EP track together with 'What Kind of Love' a number written by Nash-Clarke-Hicks and credited as such making a nonsense of the story they apparently fell for about the three names being too long to go on a single label - no longer than 'Lennon-McCartney' and less than the four Shadows names (Marvin-Welch-Harris-Meehan - and later in turn: Marvin & Welch with messrs Bennett / Locking / Rostill / Farrar all of whom got full label credits !)
- note they have full names credits over 1963 to 1964 when they unwisely became 'Ransford' later in 1964 by the time of 'We're Through' / 'Come On Back' single (which made no.7 in the UK singles chart) and their second album 'In The Hollies Style' (which made no.8 in the NME Albums chart if mysteriously not figuring at all in the LP chart the BBC used...)
Although Ron Richards linear note on the UK sleeve of the second album made it clear they were 'Ransford' this pen name made many simply assume The Hollies were not 'proper' songwriters up to mid 1966 and probably damaged their standing compared to other top groups of that era in the view of many people...even The Everly Brothers 1966 LP 'Two Yanks in England' and The Searchers 1967 cover of 'Have You Ever Loved Somebody' carried the 'Ransford' name as songwriter
'I Understand' (1963) which Tony later said was 'pretty embarressing' was also an original early effort
guitarist Derek Quinn (later of Freddie's Dreamers) said 'Learn How To Twist' was the first original number they wrote...tho' Graham Nash claimed it was 'Whole World Over', while Allan Clarke told us onstage in the eighties that a country style version of 'Running Through The Night' (another duet) was actually written by Graham and himself in 1961 tho' not recorded until 1966 as a 'B' side in a more general pop style - so clearly they were songwriting from the start even if producer Ron Richards apparently showed little faith in their own material unlike say his EMI staff colleagues Norrie Paramor (Shadows, Cliff/Shadows) and George Martin (Beatles)
'(Ain't That) Just Like Me' was an edited mono version for the hit single, but an edit from a longer full guitar parts stereo version (these can be found on 'History of The Hollies' / 'Hollies Greatest vol 2' LPs respectively)
Searchin' has a few versions - of those released there is the hit single in mono and stereo plus the alternate version in stereo also on 'Hollies Greatest vol 2' LP
'Just One Look' has the 1964 UK hit single version which was in mono plus in mono 'Hollies Greatest' LP also a stereo version on 'Hollies Greatest' LP ...and an alternate stereo version with prominent tambourine.
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Post by baz on May 8, 2023 22:45:20 GMT
Having been reminded of "Baby That's All" and not having heard it in some time, I dug it out for a fresh listen. Always liked the song anyway but what stood out for me was Eric Haydock's bass work. Quite adventurous for the time and that kind of song... funny how that was what struck me listening to it today.
One thing I like about the first album in stereo is how sometimes one can enjoy the split stereo vocals so you get Graham and Allan in separate channels giving an interesting insight into how their pre-Tony two part harmonies worked... Allan clearly had the better and stronger lead voice but Graham had a more awkward task basically having to sing different notes and he was bloody good at it! They were lucky then that Tony grew more confident adding the lower harmony giving us that magical three part Hollies harmony sound.
It is unfortunate given the reasonable stereo balance of that first album we ended up with the not as endearing full on split of band in one channel and vocals in the other for the next 4 albums. Ron Furmanek's remixes of those 1963 to 1965 songs proved that it was pure EMI laziness mixing that way as he would centre the band and split the vocals across the stereo which is much better on the ear and serves the songs better.
And here's a piece of trivia for you... on the October 23rd 1963 edition of "Coronation Street", Christopher Sandford as Walter Potts, sporting a Beatles collarless jacket performs a solo acoustic rendition of "Whole World Over" in the Rovers Return! Maybe the earliest Hollies cover?
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Post by dirtyfaz on May 9, 2023 0:23:57 GMT
Just curious about Your comments Gee re 'When I'm Not There'. Have you heard the 2 different versions. I have a scan of an A labeled demonstration version of both sides of the first version. The B side of that version has Susan Sanderson's name on it and the A side has Susie written on it. Sole writing credit to Tony Hicks. 7CXE17400 45 is the matrix number and the cat # is R5052. There was an untitled recording on 3rd July 1963 That ran for 1.49 which just happens to be the same as When I'm Not There so no doubt that is the title of the recording. They also did a couple of attempts of Searchin'. Searchin'/Whole World Over was released on 23rd August 1963. I can't locate 2 recording dates for When I'm Not There so my guess that the 2 supposed different versions are one and the same. Gee has great research so hopefully he can confirm the recording dates for WINT.
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Post by Mevrouw Bee on May 9, 2023 9:03:27 GMT
Having been reminded of "Baby That's All" and not having heard it in some time, I dug it out for a fresh listen. Always liked the song anyway but what stood out for me was Eric Haydock's bass work. Quite adventurous for the time and that kind of song... funny how that was what struck me listening to it today. One thing I like about the first album in stereo is how sometimes one can enjoy the split stereo vocals so you get Graham and Allan in separate channels giving an interesting insight into how their pre-Tony two part harmonies worked... Allan clearly had the better and stronger lead voice but Graham had a more awkward task basically having to sing different notes and he was bloody good at it! They were lucky then that Tony grew more confident adding the lower harmony giving us that magical three part Hollies harmony sound. It is unfortunate given the reasonable stereo balance of that first album we ended up with the not as endearing full on split of band in one channel and vocals in the other for the next 4 albums. Ron Furmanek's remixes of those 1963 to 1965 songs proved that it was pure EMI laziness mixing that way as he would centre the band and split the vocals across the stereo which is much better on the ear and serves the songs better. And here's a piece of trivia for you... on the October 23rd 1963 edition of "Coronation Street", Christopher Sandford as Walter Potts, sporting a Beatles collarless jacket performs a solo acoustic rendition of "Whole World Over" in the Rovers Return! Maybe the earliest Hollies cover? 21:30 in!
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Post by cameron on May 9, 2023 10:38:53 GMT
I think it's important to take some of the lesser bonus tracks in with the context that many of them weren't actually released at the time. If you were a Hollies fan in 1964, here's what you'd have got up to mid-1964 when sessions for the follow up album would start:
May 1963: Ain't That Just Like Me / Hey What's Wrong With Me August 1963: Searchin' / Whole World Over November 1963: Stay / Now's The Time January 1964: "Stay With The Hollies" LP: Talkin' About You / Mr Moonlight / You Better Move On / Lucille / Baby Don't Cry / Memphis / Stay / Rockin' Robin / Whatcha Gonna Do 'Bout It / Do You Love Me / It's Only Make Believe / What Kind Of Girl Are You / Little Lover / Candy Man February 1964: Just One Look / Keep Off Of That Friend Of Mine May 1964: Here I Go Again / Baby That's All June 1964: "The Hollies" EP: Rockin' Robin / What Kind of Love / Whatcha Gonna Do 'Bout It / When I'm Not There
So here's what came after (some dates are approx) 1972: Longer stereo mix of 'Ain't That Just Like Me' and alternative take of 'Searchin' issued on 'Hollies Greatest Vol.2'. 1978: (Date approx) 'Poison Ivy' released on an obscure Australian compilation LP, to this day, this hasn't been reissued properly as it ends on a bad note. 1985: 'Zip-A-Dee-Doo-Dah' issued for the first time on a budget self-titled Music For Pleasure EMI compilation. 1993: I think the first issue of the alternative 'Just One Look' stereo mix with extra tambourine debuts on the US '30th Anniversary Collection'. 1997: The correct take of 'Poison Ivy' appears on 'At Abbey Road 1963-1966'. 2011: 'I Understand' issued on 'Clarke Hicks & Nash Years'. 'When I'm Not There' and 'What Kind of Love' make their UK stereo debut.
What's still left unissued from the 'Stay With the Hollies' and before sessions: Fortune Teller (1963 take), three early takes of 'Searchin', Cry Me A River (unissued anywhere) and also technically the alternative take of 'Poison Ivy' that crept out on that Australian compilation. There's actually two takes of 'Poison Ivy' on 'At Abbey Road 1963-1966' with some session chat, but all other appearances of 'Poison Ivy' use the best final take.
Overall, a very productive era for the Hollies. It's useful to put dates in with the songs because you realise how prolific these guys were. It also explains why there's only one album in 1965, because 'In The Hollies Style' wouldn't be released until November 1964, so the hype around the album would have run into 1965. Also, by the time 'Here I Go Again' was released in May, they'd committed over half of 'In The Hollies Style' to tape at Abbey Road. I'm surprised that they had any time to write songs when you look at how busy they were in the first half of 1964!
Personally, it's not one of my favourite Hollies eras. I think their sound here is very "thin" overall. Although Bobby and Eric work really well together on drums and bass respectively to fill out the sound, when Tony stops playing rhythm guitar and goes into a solo, the sound noticeably drops off. I'm glad that from around 1965 onwards, Graham was at least audibly strumming his acoustic guitar in the studio on most tracks, as it goes a long way to beef up their sound. It's interesting hearing them develop as songwriters; clearly some of the stuff was written before the band made it big, presumably recorded to fill out sides of the LP (as everyone did back then!) and boost some royalties on B-sides and EP tracks, in an era where EPs sold as well as albums. It's not until 'We're Through' that the boys deliver the goods, IMO, and very quickly they'd hone that songwriting talent to produce some of the best self-composed material of that era, but that's for further discussion later in this thread...
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