Allan's pseudo-brother Billy

[calvertbesseralseric]

Hi guys,

it's been a while since we had a good discussion on the autobiographical character of the lads' lyrics. Last night, I couldn't stop reflecting on the lyrics to the bridge in I'm Down, which, as I'm sure you all recall, go:

I always thought it was my dad who went to war

Thought it was my sister who fell off the wall

My pseudo brother Billy emigrated long ago

Someone went through pain to have me, someone I should know

I couldn't keep myself from thinking about the possible "Hey Willy"-esque meaning to the third line. I don't think it's a stretch at all to surmise that this refers to a certain Billy (or Willy, or... well, I think you get the point) in Allan's life, who was as close to him for his early life as a brother, and who, of course, had emigrated long ago.

I'd be interested to hear what you all make of this. In addition, is this the last song in the long line of songs written (in part) about that certain departure in 1969? By my count, we had Goodbye Tomorrow and My Life is Over With You in 1969, possibly even Not That Way At All in the same year, and Hey Willy in 1972. It seems strange they were still reflecting on the topic in 1975, particularly from this angle of betrayal and hurt.

In addition to this, I've got a crazy theory all of my own as to a lose concept behind Another Night that I'd love to tentatively float.

[baz]

Mar 1, 2021 10:22:40 GMT calvertbesseralseric said:

I'd be interested to hear what you all make of this. In addition, is this the last song in the long line of songs written (in part) about that certain departure in 1969? By my count, we had Goodbye Tomorrow and My Life is Over With You in 1969, possibly even Not That Way At All in the same year, and Hey Willy in 1972. It seems strange they were still reflecting on the topic in 1975, particularly from this angle of betrayal and hurt.

Allan remained bitter for a lot longer than one might think... even beyond the 80's reunion as there are accounts of him onstage refusing to mention Graham by name, dismissing him as "a guy that used to be in the Hollies". I don't think the peace and acceptance was fully made until after Allan left the band in 1999.

[thejanitor]

Back when we were discussing our ideas for a concept for COTM, I was thinking something similar could probably be made for the Another Night album too. My take is the songs are sort of a peep into the lives and situations of different protagonists all within the same night (possibly the 4th of July going by the title of Sandy). I don't know how well that works, but I'd love to hear your theory!

[thejanitor]

👆 Thinking about my theory again but I just remembered there's the line "the early bird's been up all morning" in I'm Down, so it wouldn't work as the same night. Maybe if we're rearranging the track list to make the concept, this could be the first (detailing the personal issues one of the characters tries to escape at night by going out and clubbing around) or last (the issues emerging the morning after). I know I'm probably going deep in on this!

[gee]

I suspect Allan's "pseudo brother billy" who emigrated long ago was indeed Graham !

Their relationship was strained after Graham departed but probably much was due to Nash's vast success stateside with CSN which obviously left Allan rather envious (tho' Nash took the risk - his career could have faded after he quit The Hollies)

Also Nash was shrewd in having a band...and a record deal with Ahmet Ertegan at Atlantic waiting for him stateside (tho' he carefully played his cards close to his chest at the time)

Allan on the other hand in attempting to 'do a Nash' later in 1971 had no record deal, backup band or producer / mentor awaiting him....and not only did his solo career have nothing like Nash's post-Hollies success but he then missed out on the USA chart success of LCW...!

we know Allan 'never forgave Tony' over the turning down of his offer to do the resulting USA tour following the success of LCW but he may well have had further resentment towards Nash as well as 'following his lead' only further robbed Allan of much greater American recognition over 1972-73 - not really fair on the 'emigrated long ago' Billy of course...but possible in Allan's eyes

'Separated' was another Nash aimed Allan Clarke song ('why, why ignore me and leave me out all the time...' / 'I never thought you'd ever leave me now you have gone away...') following 'My Life is Over...' and 'Goodbye Tomorrow' plus likely 'Not That Way At All'...and despite denials it seems the cutting 'Hey Willy'

Significantly when Hicks mooted the BBC inspired reunion with Nash idea in 1981 as a possibility after 'Hollidaze' and 'Somethin' Ain't Right' Allan said he initially was unsure about doing it but then warmed to the idea and even went over to visit Nash in the USA

Tony Hicks had in fact visited Nash during that 1973 USA tour and Tony & Jane enjoyed holidays with Graham and his then wife Susan - when Nash came over to the UK in 1981 and later he stayed at Tony's house NOT Allan's...

I heard Allan Clarke say so many poor taste things about Nash in 80's concerts (I think Allan was annoyed the rather low key success reunion was not longer as Nash returned back to the USA and to CSN) - comments like 'Graham Nash...whose he ?', 'never heard of him ? and poorest of all;

'Who ?...oh him, I thought he was DEAD ...' (!)

a comment that drew a FURIOUS look from Tony Hicks...and an 'off air' curt comment from a clearly angry Hicks to Clarkey as the audience silence was deafening...then they did 'Wasted On The Way' !

so some 'bitterness' clearly remained...up until the Hall of Fame fiasco and maybe why Nash wanted it to be an 'American night for Allan' (?) - which then left Terry Sylvester FURIOUS....

clearly 'post-Hollies' Allan has put any past bitterness behind him and appears back to being close friends with Nash (who now has fallen out with Crosby big time !)

it's like musical chairs....

[sandy]

Allan wasn't lapse in leaving without a record deal.It was early days in thinking about an album, and just an idea.He had lots of songs that the guys didn't think were ' Hollies' songs. He had thought that the guys would accept him doing it alongside the band stuff. He muted the idea, and it was Tony who very quickly escalated the situation by presenting the rather swift repost,and brutal ultimatum.This, as Allan says, was not a great thing to do, and Allan was quite rightly, really annoyed.This forced him into leaving before he had actually anything sorted...not what he wanted at all.He says, he was 'in shock'.



And I don't believe Allan was envious of Graham's career success.It was much more a personal betrayal he felt, as you can hear in lyrics of some songs we are presuming are about Graham. Allan has never been that ambitious to a level to be jealous. He wanted fulfillment from doing his own thing, but ,as he demonstrated later, he was happy to be anonymous, and keep doing what he loved at that level. He's quiet, and wouldn't have wanted such a high profile existence.The hurt was real though.

[gee]

In retrospect WHY should Allan have felt betrayed ? - Nash was perfectly entitled to follow his own career path and having enjoyed 18 UK hits with The Hollies clearly by 1968 felt he wanted to explore his own thing as clearly the group and him were 'not on the same page' etc...

Nash took a massive risk, was lucky that CSN hit big at Woodstock and never looked back

Allan Clarke was lead singer, a chief songwriter for the band and with Nash gone now had the chance to FRONT and co-LEAD the band...he chose only the former as when they were all quite happy to let Nash be the 'public Hollie' so from 1969 they were all quite happy for Hicks to assume full control of the band

Allan was happy to sing lead...and never attempted to lead the band either with Nash or thereafter, which might be telling re the later reaction he got from Hicks and Elliott in 1971

Back in those early seventies days having a concurrent solo and band career was not very common at all with only Frankie Valli - The Four Seasons the major exception but like Buddy Holly before it was there a case of the same team involved in both avenues (as also Cliff Richard / The Shadows here) ...and likewise re Rod Stewart / Faces who probably proved it COULD work but again all were working together on two concurrent musical avenues 

Tony obviously feared another 'Nash situation' of Allan drifting away (as he would do again later in 1978) if he didn't commit fully to The Hollies

for a time you were NOT to mention the name 'Graham Nash' in hearing of The Hollies...

Allan may now say; 'I asked quite nicely...' (not sure that would be Tony's recollection of it)

just take a look at Allan in those pics inside the 'Distant Light' gatefold sleeve - slumped in a chair unsmiling looking quite miserable...and like Nash back in 1968 Allan had begun clashing with Ron Richards over material

so all was not that perfect in their camp by 1971 - Allan was given a choice tho' either er 'STAY' with The Hollies...or try his luck as a solo artist

Page 29 Peter Doggett's booklet to 'The Long Road Home' CD set;

Allan Clarke; ''I saw how well Graham Nash was doing  in the States  and I though I'd like a bit of that...so I approached the boys with the idea I should do a solo album. Their reaction quite rightly was that if I wanted to do a solo album I should leave the group, I didn't want to leave I had no idea if I would be successful...BUT I DECIDED TO TAKE THE CHANCE...'

Allan's own words - with no record deal, no backing group, no producer or mentor Allan decided to take the chance...

Allan remained in due course completing his Hollies touring contract until December 1971 (after their first session with Mike Rickfors in the studio over 8-9 December 1971 ) so he was not just 'booted' from the group in any way he decided to take the chance and go his own way not actually departing until after his replacement had already been in the recording studio with The Hollies

Allan COULD have 'bided his time' and remained while properly planning his solo career investigating a record deal, getting a band together (as Nash had done back in 1968) and possibly could well have made it - but in the end he never toured, did little live or TV promotional work to push his solo career and seemed to think the albums and good reviews of them alone would be enough (while say Paul McCartney was taking his new band Wings around student union halls doing gigs building up a live reputation just as back at the beginning of his career) so in that respect Allan had only himself to blame for his solo career not properly taking off as it always seemed to be a rather half hearted attempt at a solo career despite some great recordings

I can see Tony / Hollies angle too...they had already lost out on a likely bigger hit with 'Listen To Me' due to Nash being unavailable over in the USA hence they had to pass on BBC's 'Top of The Pops' in 1968 (something Allan himself  would have been equally frustrated by then - Allan being the biggest critic of Nash's more personalised songs The Hollies just couldn't use saying to the UK music press; 'all of Graham's new songs are very slow and very boring...')

 so they clearly wern't going to allow another situation like that to arise...and The Hollies had always been run like a factory with band rules and 100% commitment expected / demanded (as Eric Haydock had discovered in 1966) with no one allowed to be any kind of 'part time' Hollie...

if co-founders Haydock and co-leader Nash duly having been replaced by new members proved that no member was deemed as 'unreplacable' in the band Allan must have known when he 'asked quite nicely' that Hicks and Elliott plus Robin Britten etc were NOT likely to just accept his wanting to do a solo set after the Nash situation in the band

Today and just around that time in the seventies such a concept would indeed become 'accepted' - ie Rod Stewart / Faces (tho' Rod was forever being urged to dump his band !) and Bryan Ferry / Roxy Music etc...but I think Tony saw IF Allan was successful he'd DUMP The Hollies at once - eager to equal Nash and become a 'name' in his own right

Allan was never just fired from the group, he admits he chose to try going it alone....and both sides learned a lesson as in barely two years he was back, then allowed his solo career..but in return him agreeing to always put The Hollies first..but it was never an easy alliance, Allan would exit - and return again - later in 1978

Terry Sylvester would later say; 

'Clarke made his annual threat to leave...'

[Tony Wilkinson]

Got to say the past is the past, been covered many times but where are we today..?
Graham has given us some really good solo material, Allan has delivered some truly wonderful music and what's left of the band.. well, I think you know where i'm going..!!

[gee]

One of the strangest and saddest things is that none of them - Clarke, Nash, Hicks, Sylvester, Elliott etc....seem 'that bothered' about The Hollies - maybe seeing the band as 'a job of work' etc

They may praise up certain parts of their band career but then also are dismissive of parts too (even Mike Rickfors likewise)

their fans, notably the longtime fans, seem far more devoted to 'their' Hollies era than any of the group members themselves

Ron Richards cited his best production work...was for P.J. Proby !

maybe why so few books on the band (Malcolm's forthcoming book hopefully setting that record straight)

but their own apparent lack of interest probably explains why The Hollies back catalogue receives such scant attention and their reputation is not overall held in the same league as MANY of their contemporary bands - some of whom they most certainly outsold !

[dirtyfaz]

Wasn't I'm Down about Ron Richards childhood? Wasn't he adopted?

[sandy]

Apr 2, 2021 22:35:19 GMT dirtyfaz said:

Wasn't I'm Down about Ron Richards childhood? Wasn't he adopted?

Yes, his son has said so.

[Mevrouw Bee]

Apr 2, 2021 15:28:01 GMT sandy said:

Allan wasn't lapse in leaving without a record deal.It was early days in thinking about an album, and just an idea.He had lots of songs that the guys didn't think were ' Hollies' songs. He had thought that the guys would accept him doing it alongside the band stuff. He muted the idea, and it was Tony who very quickly escalated the situation by presenting the rather swift repost,and brutal ultimatum.This, as Allan says, was not a great thing to do, and Allan was quite rightly, really annoyed.This forced him into leaving before he had actually anything sorted...not what he wanted at all.He says, he was 'in shock'.



And I don't believe Allan was envious of Graham's career success.It was much more a personal betrayal he felt, as you can hear in lyrics of some songs we are presuming are about Graham. Allan has never been that ambitious to a level to be jealous. He wanted fulfillment from doing his own thing, but ,as he demonstrated later, he was happy to be anonymous, and keep doing what he loved at that level. He's quiet, and wouldn't have wanted such a high profile existence.The hurt was real though.

I hear it over and over again from classic rock fans...their heroes only ever do things for professional reasons. They can't consider that the personal is just as important and can't be divorced from that.

Joni who? It was all about Marrakesh Express, you know!

Even when the Beatles admitted in Anthology that they just grew up and their families became more important than each other, all you ever hear from the fans is about the business and creative reasons. As if they all became famous in the first place because of their superhuman compulsion to create and overwhelming work ethic, denying everything else in life. 

Guys do things (for better or worse) for personal reasons too. It may not sound "manly" enough for some, but they're only human!