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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2020 7:13:32 GMT
Looking quite different from Mud's Glam years!
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Post by johnt on Nov 20, 2020 9:20:44 GMT
Great find Peter. I vaguely remember this series of The Ed and Zed Show. I don't think many episodes were made. I can't think why!!
Ray looks a bit like Roy Wood!
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Post by The Dude on Nov 20, 2020 18:25:48 GMT
Great find Peter. I vaguely remember this series of The Ed and Zed Show. I don't think many episodes were made. I can't think why!! Ray looks a bit like Roy Wood! According to the description of this video on YouTube there were nine episodes in total: "Hosted by Ed "Stewpot" Stewart (Crackerjack) and his robot assistant Zed. Out of a total of nine episodes that were made, sadly only seven still exist. Featuring special guests Mud. "Let battle commence! Ed and Zed return with another 'sparring-to-see-who's-starring' match! And with them come another 'Ed The Eminent Expert' mystery, that 'Jumpin' Jehosophat' group, Mud, and a chance to join Judy Garland and friends along the Yellow Brick Road in The Wizard of Oz." genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules... " |
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Post by baz on Nov 20, 2020 22:56:12 GMT
Yes, seven out of nine shows survive and six of them recently went into circulation featuring (in order) - White Plains, Hot Chocolate, Mud, Sounds Incorporated, Vanity Fare and Herman's Hermits or "Peter Noone and Herman's Hermits" as they were called by then just as they were about to split... their show is strange as it starts off with them miming to the 1964 recording of "I'm Into Something Good" which feels rather archaic given their longer hair and facial fungus then the dreaded Zed attempts to host minus Ed accompanied by members of Roger Ruskin Spear's Kinetic Wardrobe - ie : Spear's weird robots he used in the Bonzo Dog Band!
It's a surprisingly high survival rate for a rather cheap and naff BBC kids show from that era. The music guests give it some worthiness but the robot stuff is cringeful as are the mysteries. Still, given there's not much of his work left on "Top Of The Pops" it is good to see Ed Stewart in action.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2020 9:25:22 GMT
Herman's Hermits or "Peter Noone and Herman's Hermits" as they were called by then just as they were about to split... A bit strange that name change, as Peter Noone doesn't come across as being particularly egotistical... unlike some people!  |
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Post by gee on Nov 21, 2020 15:22:14 GMT
You could be making an assumption there re the announcer
I suspect the billing was really more down to the US TV Networks doing that given that Nash was a 'Name' figure in the USA
- people here in the UK often still don't know who Allan Clarke or Tony Hicks are !!
and THEY themselves are at least partly to blame as they always wanted fame but on their own terms preferring to keep a lower profile
- after 'He Ain't Heavy' topped the UK chart in 1988 Clarkey MOANED about people recognising him once more in his local supermarket !
while TH was 'always the first to leave'...from a Hollies concert, often having little or no time for the public...
all four band members names were given equal billing on the 'What Goes Around...' album cover
Peter Noone was about to leave and go solo which probably explains the latter credit for him and HH
as far back as 1965 Paul Jones was getting a label credit on Manfred Mann singles as 'vocal; Paul Jones' - however PJ himself wasn't behind that according to Tom McGuinness and Paul even objected to it but the record company deemed otherwise - and then put a BIG pic of just Paul (then just going solo with HMV / EMI) on the back cover of the compilation album 'Mann Made Hits' in 1966
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Post by Mevrouw Bee on Nov 21, 2020 15:50:54 GMT
You could be making an assumption there re the announcer I suspect the billing was really more down to the US TV Networks doing that given that Nash was a 'Name' figure in the USA - people here in the UK often still don't know who Allan Clarke or Tony Hicks are !! and THEY themselves are at least partly to blame as they always wanted fame but on their own terms preferring to keep a lower profile - after 'He Ain't Heavy' topped the UK chart in 1988 Clarkey MOANED about people recognising him once more in his local supermarket ! while TH was 'always the first to leave'...from a Hollies concert, often having little or no time for the public... all four band members names were given equal billing on the 'What Goes Around...' album cover Peter Noone was about to leave and go solo which probably explains the latter credit for him and HH as far back as 1965 Paul Jones was getting a label credit on Manfred Mann singles as 'vocal; Paul Jones' - however PJ himself wasn't behind that according to Tom McGuinness and Paul even objected to it but the record company deemed otherwise - and then put a BIG pic of just Paul (then just going solo with HMV / EMI) on the back cover of the compilation album 'Mann Made Hits' in 1966 Exactly. Nobody in North America except hardcore Hollies fans like us can name a past or present Hollie except Graham. And most of the time they have no clue that he was one. If you see the magazine articles that Sandy's been posting about Allan or the rest, they're all British. Even at their 1960s peak, they were nameless in magazines here. And never in teen publications like 16 Magazine and the like. They know maybe three songs and half the time don't even know the band that did it. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2020 16:15:18 GMT
Re: That Hollies 1984 US TV appearance, I recall Tony complaining years later that a friend of Graham's did the mixing, hence his over-loud vocals. Whatever, when the harmony singer is given top-billing by the announcer it's a pretty poor state of affairs.
At Motown in the '60s, both Diana Ross (The Supremes) and Smokey Robinson (The Miracles) were eventually given top billing over their groups, but Levi Stubbs (The Four Tops) refused any special treatment and David Ruffin (The Temptations) got thrown out of the band when he demanded it!
Of all the singers who deserved top billing, it has to be Mike Smith in The Dave Clark Five. Yes, Dave Clark was the business brains behind it all, but without Mike's singing, playing, good looks and charisma they would've been nothing...IMO.
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Post by Mevrouw Bee on Nov 21, 2020 16:19:58 GMT
Re: That Hollies 1984 US TV appearance, I recall Tony complaining years later that a friend of Graham's did the mixing, hence his over-loud vocals. Whatever, when the harmony singer is given top-billing by the announcer it's a pretty poor state of affairs. At Motown in the '60s, both Diana Ross (The Supremes) and Smokey Robinson (The Miracles) were eventually given top billing over their groups, but Levi Stubbs (The Four Tops) refused any special treatment and David Ruffin (The Temptations) got thrown out of the band when he demanded it! Of all the singers who deserved top billing, it has to be Mike Smith in The Dave Clark Five. Yes, Dave Clark was the business brains behind it all, but without Mike's singing, playing, good looks and charisma they would've been nothing...IMO. I think Diana's star billing probably had to do with her relationship with Gordy...and his plan to make her a solo artist. Smokey, well, being a songwriter/producer at Motown he had clout. Yeah, Ruffin was great but the Temps shared lead vocals so he didn't have a leg to stand on. |
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Post by baz on Nov 21, 2020 17:03:45 GMT
At Motown in the '60s, both Diana Ross (The Supremes) and Smokey Robinson (The Miracles) were eventually given top billing over their groups, but Levi Stubbs (The Four Tops) refused any special treatment and David Ruffin (The Temptations) got thrown out of the band when he demanded it! Martha and The Vandellas as well, becoming Martha Reeves and The Vandellas... and I've read a few awful accounts of how big Martha's ego was! All those name changes occurred at Motown the same year. Coming back to Noone and the Hermits, it is bizarre hearing Max Bygraves introduce them at the Royal Variety Performance as "Peter Noone with Herman and the Hermits!" Almost reminiscent of the production credits of "What Goes Round" as "The Hollies" are listed as is Graham Nash... er, wasn't Graham supposed to be a member of The Hollies? And who else but Noone was "Herman"?  |
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Post by gee on Nov 21, 2020 20:52:02 GMT
Well WE of course see Graham Nash as a 'Hollie' however in 1983 he in strict business terms was not...
Nash had left 'The Hollies' in December 1968 and severed his ties with the band and EMI Records also Epic Records in the USA signing with Atlantic
Nash was really something of a 'Special Guest' with The Hollies on 'What Goes Around...' hence the four names were credited as well - very 'special' in that it was Nash who got them the record deal with WEA Records as by then Polydor had dropped them and they yet were to properly re-sign with EMI (by 1985) the 1981 'Holliedaze' release being essentially culled from from old tapes held by EMI in association with The Hollies Ltd etc....
So Nash got them the record deal with WEA Records, and they decamped to Rudy Records again thanks to Nash to complete the tracks
the seperate production credits show the various parties involved - Stanley Johnson was the guy who mixed Nash's voice out too far on that TV performance I believe but the album had the harmonies correctly mixed - indeed it was very noticeable that besides a line or two Nash surprisingly took NO lead vocals
- I for one would have welcomed a Hollies version of both 'Teach Your Children' and 'Wasted On The Way' with Nash singing lead on that album along with a couple of Hollies versions of Allan Clarke solo tracks (say 'Shadow in The Street', 'Slipstream' etc) in place of that awful re-cut of 'Just One Look' and some of those very forgettable Paul Bliss songs !
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Post by eric on Nov 21, 2020 23:58:50 GMT
Of all the singers who deserved top billing, it has to be Mike Smith in The Dave Clark Five. Yes, Dave Clark was the business brains behind it all, but without Mike's singing, playing, good looks and charisma they would've been nothing...IMO. Peter, I couldn't agree more. Mike Smith was one of the great vocalists of the Sixties. |
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Post by gee on Nov 22, 2020 14:14:31 GMT
The late great Mike Smith remains something of an enigma as to WHY he wasn't a major solo artist in the seventies...
Mike without doubt was a major sixties pop music figure - his voice was in the same league as Allan Clarke and Tom Jones for distinctive power and ability to handle songs in differing styles
Mike was another such vocalist John Lennon would be 'worried about' !
however, like Clarkey despite his good looks and voice Mike wasn't seen as a major sex symbol like say a Scott (or John) Walker nor as 'charismatic' a teen hearthrob as a Paul Jones, a Barry Ryan, or a sex god like Tom Jones or the (actually quite 'gawky' early on ) Mick Jagger !
Mike perhaps surprisingly seemed quite content to remain under the guidance of Dave Clark - it has been rumoured that back around 1967 that Mike (possiby following Paul Jones lead) would also go solo...'You Got What it Takes' sounds very much like a proposed solo single and that might explain the 'DC5 Greatest Hits' compilation album released in the UK in 1966 as EMI did re Manfred Mann that year as Paul Jones departed
however clearly that never materialised for Mike Smith and YGWIT was put out as a DC5 single tho' other DC5 band members, besides Dave all looked rather 'miffed' in the promo film of it (as did the other Beatles besides Paul in 'Hello Goodbye' promo) which perhaps could be telling...?
to me the grinning DC does rather resemble a 'wind up toy rabbit' drummer here....!
whatever Mike opted to remain with DC until the early seventies and besides that duo album with fellow sixties frontman Mike d'Abo he thereafter seemed to sadly fade out of the music scene - ironic just returning with 'Mike Smith's Rock Engine' when he suffered that tragic fall accident
considering Mike was a decent songwriter and fine keyboardist - he, Lenny and Denis WERE The DC5 musically in essence - his later fading from the music scene in the seventies is a very sad thing as a major talent was lost to us far too soon, both then and later in more absolute terms
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2020 15:37:27 GMT
Mike started performing again shortly before his accident in 2003, and was still in fine voice (very sad to think that a month after this video he had that accident that left him paralyzed):
...Incidentally, that performance of 'You Got What It Takes' is from 'The Ed Sullivan Show', NOT a Promo Video. Here it is with the original live vocal:
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Post by baz on Nov 22, 2020 16:27:58 GMT
to me the grinning DC does rather resemble a 'wind up toy rabbit' drummer here....!  Par for the course whenever TV cameras were pointing at him! As for Mike Smith, I consider him as one of the biggest wastes of talent of all time. Even Dave Clark himself admitted Mike never really realised or accepted how good he truly was so was unwilling to go solo, happy to continue being another member of the DC5. |
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Post by eric on Nov 23, 2020 8:43:06 GMT
In early 1965, John Lennon and Mike Smith went “head to head” on my local radio and Top 40 charts in Australia with Chuck Berry tunes used by their respective bands.
The Beatles, with Lennon on lead vocals, had their single “Rock and Roll Music” enter the charts on 13 March 1965, rise to No. 1 for three weeks and stay there for 19 weeks.
Not to be outdone, The Dave Clark Five, with Smith to the fore, had their single “Reelin’ and Rockin’” enter the charts on 3 April 1965, rise to No. 3 and stay around for 20 weeks.
Mike Smith could belt out a rocker with the best of them!
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Post by gee on Nov 23, 2020 11:11:01 GMT
Mike certainly could - but he also had a deeper more reflective 'soulful' voice too and was very much capable of singing more intimate songs too and he had a strong falsetto range too heard here at the very ending of the song
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Post by Stranger on Nov 23, 2020 15:23:53 GMT
Funny how I think of Ray and Mud being a completely different era to The Hollies but seeing this clip from 1970 you realise how contemporary they are or how fleeting are the eras and moments of popularity in pop music.
Ray is six weeks older than Terry but Mud seem so much newer than the Hollies!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2020 17:12:49 GMT
Funny how I think of Ray and Mud being a completely different era to The Hollies but seeing this clip from 1970 you realise how contemporary they are or how fleeting are the eras and moments of popularity in pop music. Ray is six weeks older than Terry but Mud seem so much newer than the Hollies! Although they didn't start having hits until 1973, Mud formed in 1966 and were releasing records from 1967. It's a similar story with the bands that evolved into The Sweet and Slade (to name just two), Davie Jones/David Bowie released his first record in 1964, and Paul Raven/Gary Glitter had his first record out in 1960! So there's more cross-over with the Glam-era acts than at first obvious. |
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Post by gee on Nov 23, 2020 19:23:15 GMT
also Alvin Stardust / Shane Fenton....Bernie Jewry the Hollies old mate and roadie !
while Wings had Paul and Denny, ex-Beatle and ex-Moodie
The Police had ex-Zoot Money and Animals guitarist Andy Summers and ex-Curved Air drummer Stewart Copeland
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Post by baz on Nov 23, 2020 22:44:34 GMT
also Alvin Stardust / Shane Fenton....Bernie Jewry the Hollies old mate and roadie ! Bernard sure had one of the weirdest careers in music history! First taking on the role of the recently deceased Shane Fenton and ending up becoming a star with a handful of hits then a decade later, taking on the role of Alvin Stardust as Peter Shelley who had written and recorded "My Coo Ca Choo" felt uncomfortable promoting it on TV so all Bernard had to do was dress up and mime... and that triggered a new career for him! Alvin also enjoyed one of the unlikeliest comebacks as well in 1981 when he signed with Stiff and then Chrysalis which netted him a few more hits in the early to mid 80's... he had more hits than The Hollies did between 1973 and 1985! |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2020 7:18:14 GMT
also Alvin Stardust / Shane Fenton....Bernie Jewry the Hollies old mate and roadie ! Bernard sure had one of the weirdest careers in music history! First taking on the role of the recently deceased Shane Fenton and ending up becoming a star with a handful of hits then a decade later, taking on the role of Alvin Stardust as Peter Shelley who had written and recorded "My Coo Ca Choo" felt uncomfortable promoting it on TV so all Bernard had to do was dress up and mime... and that triggered a new career for him! Alvin also enjoyed one of the unlikeliest comebacks as well in 1981 when he signed with Stiff and then Chrysalis which netted him a few more hits in the early to mid 80's... he had more hits than The Hollies did between 1973 and 1985! he helped people cross roads! |
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Post by johnt on Nov 24, 2020 15:17:01 GMT
also Alvin Stardust / Shane Fenton....Bernie Jewry the Hollies old mate and roadie ! Bernard sure had one of the weirdest careers in music history! First taking on the role of the recently deceased Shane Fenton and ending up becoming a star with a handful of hits then a decade later, taking on the role of Alvin Stardust as Peter Shelley who had written and recorded "My Coo Ca Choo" felt uncomfortable promoting it on TV so all Bernard had to do was dress up and mime... and that triggered a new career for him! Alvin also enjoyed one of the unlikeliest comebacks as well in 1981 when he signed with Stiff and then Chrysalis which netted him a few more hits in the early to mid 80's... he had more hits than The Hollies did between 1973 and 1985! I used to live in Mansfield (where Bernie was brought up) so I know this story well. Johnny Theakston was the original lead singer and they won a talent contest at the local Palais. They submitted an audition tape to the BBC under the name of Shane Fenton and the Fentones. Johnny had chosen the name Shane from a Gene Vincent single and Fenton's was the name of a local printing company which he passed by regularly. Unfortunately Johnny (Shane) passed away at the tender age of 17 due to rheumatic fever which he suffered from as a child. The band were going to call it a day but then the BBC responded to their audition tape and asked them to appear on Saturday Club. Johnny's mother gave her blessing for the group to continue on condition that they kept the group's name as a tribute to Johnny. Bernie had filled in for Johnny in the past when Johnny was too ill to perform so Bernie was asked to take Johnny's spot as their lead singer. The rest, as they say, is history. In the late 1970s/early 80s, I used to work for a company in Mansfield whose receptionist, Norma, used to follow Shane Fenton and the Fentones around in the 60s and knew Bernie very well. In fact, I recall on one occasion he came into the office to say hello to Norma. By this time, he was Alvin! If I remember correctly, both Alvin and The Hollies bumped into each other again when they were both appearing on Top Of The Pops when Holliedaze was in the charts. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2020 15:43:04 GMT
If I remember correctly, both Alvin and The Hollies bumped into each other again when they were both appearing on Top Of The Pops when Holliedaze was in the charts.
They were certainly on the same edition:
10/09/81 (presented by Jimmy Savile)
Linx – So This Is Romance
Cliff Richard – Wired For Sound (Video)
The Hollies – Holliedaze
Randy Crawford – Rainy Night In Georgia (Video)
Alvin Stardust – Pretend
Imagination – In & Out Of Love
The Rolling Stones – Start Me Up (Video)
Ottawan – Hands Up (Give Me Your Heart) (Danced by Legs & Co)
Adam & The Ants – Prince Charming (Video)
Soft Cell – Tainted Love (Repeat from 13/08/81)
Ultravox – The Thin Wall (Audience Dancing/Credits)
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Par for the course whenever TV cameras were pointing at him!