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Post by cameron on Aug 28, 2020 7:33:40 GMT
As we know, Allan left the Hollies from 1971-1973 to pursue a solo career. The story goes that Tony wouldn’t let him come back to do the American tour in 1972 to promote ‘Long Cool Woman’ and according to Tony, Allan and Bobby, Tony and Allan had dinner together in late 1973 and Tony asked Allan back to the group and they agreed that they needed each other.
Well I managed to procure a copy of the 1974 tour programme and inside it states the following:
“In mid 1973, Terry Sylvester rang Allan Clarke to ask if he would be prepared to put vocals on recordings of some of the group’s early hits for an American LP. Once in the studio, everything came together so well that the group decided that it would be silly to not give that lineup another chance.”
This is an interesting alternative take on the story. And surely most accurate as it was published just a year after it allegedly took place? Has anyone heard more about this American LP? There’s no mention of this in their sessionography, though I’ve been told by a few people that their official sessionography is grossly inaccurate and omits a lot of details, so who knows. 1973 seems a bit early for group’s re-recording early hits, which of course would later be a big phase in the late 70s and early 1980s. Unless it was a motion by Epic records to get around copyright because wasn’t ‘Hollies Greatest Hits’ issued in 1973?
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Post by baz on Aug 28, 2020 8:15:58 GMT
Hadn't heard that story before. I would have thought had it been true, Terry would have been reminding us of it on Twitter to imply how important HE was to the band... you can almost hear him now "I gave Allan his second chance with The Hollies. Big mistake!"
Then again, since when has Terry ever accounted for any of his own mistakes when EVERYTHING is Clarke and Nash's fault?
Your theory about re-recording hits does hold some weight. It was a common gripe of Duke Ellington for whenever he signed a new record deal, the new company would quickly demand an album of his greatest hits so then they could try and cash in hence why there are multiple versions spanning decades of those numbers so re-recording hits was definitely common in the jazz and country world and would become more prevalent in the world of pop. It would have irritated Epic not having access to the material Imperial had so they would have pushed for such a thing as opposed to Polydor in the UK.
I think we should see if there are accounts of the common story - Tony meeting Allan and asking him to rejoin - predating Terry's departure in 1981 as once Terry was gone, it would be one of those unsubtle ways of revising history and brushing Terry's contribution out of it as getting Allan back was definitely a big game changer for the band.
Hmmm. Interesting...
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Post by cameron on Aug 28, 2020 8:56:44 GMT
I think we should see if there are accounts of the common story - Tony meeting Allan and asking him to rejoin - predating Terry's departure in 1981 as once Terry was gone, it would be one of those unsubtle ways of revising history and brushing Terry's contribution out of it as getting Allan back was definitely a big game changer for the band. Hmmm. Interesting... We know that the band can re-write their own history. Sometimes it's intentional, such as keeping ex-members out of the fanclub magazine, and sometimes I think that they genuinely forget and one member recalls half a story and it becomes legend. Even Bobby introduces some of his stories as "Tony remembers..." or "Clarkey remembers..." because he either doesn't or wasn't there for that moment. You have to remember, we're talking about a 50-60 year span, NO ONE can remember intimate details such as that over so many decades. Though I would have thought Allan re-joining the group was a poignant enough moment to remember exactly what happened. My guess is that the re-recordings weren't sent to Epic, as the Hollies probably decided not to cheapen their legacy. Though they weren't averse to re-recording old hits as far back as 1968, when they broke out 'Just One Look' and 'Stay' for a BBC session to promote 'Hollies Greatest'. They also re-visted 'A Taste of Honey' in the studio after three years with a new arrangement, so who knows...? Perhaps they "updated" the sound of the earlier hits, as they did in their live shows, and Epic wanted a note-for-note copy to try and fool the record buying public? Either way, I expect the reason for the collective "mind fog" on this story is two-fold: they wouldn't want the fans speculating about the unreleased re-recordings if they weren't happy with them (remember, the never shouted about the Lewisham Odeon recording, but it still became the stuff of legend) and also it's a way of airbrushing out Terry's contributions to the group as he left on bad terms. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2020 9:21:32 GMT
Imagine if they'd re-cut all their hits in the '80s!  I'm hard pushed to think of a worse rerecording/rearrangement, though this effort from Macca rivals it: |
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Post by baz on Aug 28, 2020 10:10:59 GMT
Imagine if they'd re-cut all their hits in the '80s! I'm hard pushed to think of a worse rerecording/rearrangement, though this effort from Macca rivals it: Argh! A 1980's re-recorded hits collection would have been truly horrid and would almost certainly be derided as being their worst album ever if the 1983 "Just One Look" is anything to go by. I do wonder if that idea crossed their minds during one of their fallow moments. As for the Macca thing, that was utterly awful. I remember hearing it when it came out and thought he'd flipped. It transpired he was simply milking the fact they were - and remain - the only two Beatles songs he owns the songwriting copyrights for. Coming back to Cameron, oh yes, a lot of creative history rewriting goes on and given the bad terms Terry departed on, some airbrushing would be inevitable though they still credited Terry's harmonies as being better than Graham's. Then later on came Eric Haydock being hacked out thanks to the legal issues that went down. And I still wanna know why Graham Nash finds it near impossible to remember that "bass player"... what was his name? Oh... Bernie Calvert. |
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Post by Stranger on Aug 28, 2020 10:32:32 GMT
There is already a thread on this topic of the phantom American recordings somewhere on the forum.
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Post by cameron on Aug 28, 2020 11:12:10 GMT
There is already a thread on this topic of the phantom American recordings somewhere on the forum. I think that thread is marred with the certain... erm "activities" of some infamous groupies! I actually think re-recordings in 1973 would have been pretty decent. Their sound was still as good as it ever was and pre-synthesiser days. I bet we'd have been talking about a handful of songs at best, because not a lot of the early stuff was a big hit in America. Funnily enough, 'Look Through Any Window' was a part of their 1974 UK tour setlist, so who knows, perhaps it had been dug out for a recording session and they decided to play it live? I bet Epic records would have wanted fairly faithful to the original recordings, if they were intended for the Greatest Hits album. Then again, thinking about it, Epic did the same thing with Donovan in 1969 with his 'Greatest Hits' album and we got the absolutely wonderful mellow psychedelic re-workings of 'Colours' and 'Catch The Wind' which I think are vastly superior to the original fast-paced folk ditties. They are the definitive versions to most Americans, who didn't pick up on Donovan until 'Sunshine Superman' in 1966 after the original recordings of 'Colours' and 'Catch The Wind' were issued and passed most Americans by. I'm curious to know whether these Hollies recordings ever did take place or not. It's always struck me as a bit odd that once Allan returns they dive back in with 'Mexico Gold', which they left in the can... hardly a promising start, despite a fairly decent song and a great performance, but they clearly had no confidence in it. It would make more sense that they had the aforementioned recording session recording some old hits to get back into the swing of things with Allan. |
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Post by cameron on Aug 28, 2020 11:18:34 GMT
I'm not generally a fan of artists re-working earlier hits. It's usually just an excuse to disguise dropping the key to hide an ailing voice. That said, I don't mind the Hollies' re-working of 'On A Carousel', which they've been playing for longer than they have the original arrangement! The new one of 'Look Through Any Window' is really nice too, but doesn't suit the lyrical content of the song at all. Also they chopped out the most iconic part of that song; Tony's guitar riff. I guess it's different. Though it went completely over the heads of the audience when I saw them, who couldn't pick out the original 1965 hit out of the vastly altered arrangement. It was basically the original lyrics over a completely new chord structure and melody.
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Post by Stranger on Aug 28, 2020 11:21:16 GMT
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Post by The Dude on Aug 28, 2020 11:30:59 GMT
Hadn't heard that story before. I would have thought had it been true, Terry would have been reminding us of it on Twitter to imply how important HE was to the band... you can almost hear him now "I gave Allan his second chance with The Hollies. Big mistake!" Then again, since when has Terry ever accounted for any of his own mistakes when EVERYTHING is Clarke and Nash's fault? Your theory about re-recording hits does hold some weight. It was a common gripe of Duke Ellington for whenever he signed a new record deal, the new company would quickly demand an album of his greatest hits so then they could try and cash in hence why there are multiple versions spanning decades of those numbers so re-recording hits was definitely common in the jazz and country world and would become more prevalent in the world of pop. It would have irritated Epic not having access to the material Imperial had so they would have pushed for such a thing as opposed to Polydor in the UK. I think we should see if there are accounts of the common story - Tony meeting Allan and asking him to rejoin - predating Terry's departure in 1981 as once Terry was gone, it would be one of those unsubtle ways of revising history and brushing Terry's contribution out of it as getting Allan back was definitely a big game changer for the band. Hmmm. Interesting... ...Ralph McTell springs to mind... everytime he signed a new contract with a different label, he was required to record a next version of 'Streets Of London'.... |
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Post by thejanitor on Aug 28, 2020 13:38:59 GMT
Bringing up The Beach Boys again... but the notorious Mike Love has re-recorded a whole bunch of classic BB hits and songs for his solo albums in recent years, using a heavy amount of autotune on his voice and occasionally featuring some irritating guest musicians. As you can imagine, the results are ghastly. 😖 case in point (prepare yourself!):
Back to the Hollies, I've always been intrigued by the apparent legend that they re-recorded the song Wings with Terry sometime in the early 70s but it never saw the light of day. I was hoping that might have been a contender for the rarities compilation that is or was supposed to come out this year.
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Post by Malc on Aug 28, 2020 16:10:29 GMT
From Disc, back in 1973:
Allan: ‘One day Terry rang and said he wanted to talk to me. The boys wanted me to redo some vocals on some of the old numbers that would be released. Knowing the money is there in that kind of thing, and thinking it would be fun, I said ‘why not?’ I was a bit nervous when we went into the studios, but it went really well…’.
Shortly after, in The Hollies Fan Club Newsletter, Rod Shields confirmed they were for an American collection.
As for The Beach Boys and his Lovestar, Mike has been guilty of retreading the hits for DECADES, and more than just recently ! Take the late 70s Deadman's Curve OST sessions, along with the NASCAR, Catch A Wave and Summertime Cruisin' trilogy as an example. No please... take them ! Likewise, The Association were also guilty during their 80s reunion for revisiting Along Comes Mary, Never My Love, Cherish etc on more than one occasion...
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Post by Mevrouw Bee on Aug 28, 2020 18:19:21 GMT
Hadn't heard that story before. I would have thought had it been true, Terry would have been reminding us of it on Twitter to imply how important HE was to the band... you can almost hear him now "I gave Allan his second chance with The Hollies. Big mistake!" Then again, since when has Terry ever accounted for any of his own mistakes when EVERYTHING is Clarke and Nash's fault? Your theory about re-recording hits does hold some weight. It was a common gripe of Duke Ellington for whenever he signed a new record deal, the new company would quickly demand an album of his greatest hits so then they could try and cash in hence why there are multiple versions spanning decades of those numbers so re-recording hits was definitely common in the jazz and country world and would become more prevalent in the world of pop. It would have irritated Epic not having access to the material Imperial had so they would have pushed for such a thing as opposed to Polydor in the UK. I think we should see if there are accounts of the common story - Tony meeting Allan and asking him to rejoin - predating Terry's departure in 1981 as once Terry was gone, it would be one of those unsubtle ways of revising history and brushing Terry's contribution out of it as getting Allan back was definitely a big game changer for the band. Hmmm. Interesting... ...Ralph McTell springs to mind... everytime he signed a new contract with a different label, he was required to record a next version of 'Streets Of London'.... I was thinking of that exact thing when I read baz's comment! |
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Post by Mevrouw Bee on Aug 28, 2020 18:28:12 GMT
From Disc, back in 1973: Allan: ‘One day Terry rang and said he wanted to talk to me. The boys wanted me to redo some vocals on some of the old numbers that would be released. Knowing the money is there in that kind of thing, and thinking it would be fun, I said ‘why not?’ I was a bit nervous when we went into the studios, but it went really well…’. Shortly after, in The Hollies Fan Club Newsletter, Rod Shields confirmed they were for an American collection. Gawd, I used to loathe that. Being born in the 60s, I was a late-starter as a 60s music collector and was pretty dependent in the 1970s on compilations...I got really gun shy after a few mistakes I made buying LPs that said "original stars!!" on the cover and getting a stupid re-recording. I wanted the original recording. I couldn't give a crap that it was now "in stereo!" The original production was part of the reason I loved a song in the first place! If I wanted a modern version, that's what a live album was for, imo. Obvious exception being reinterpretations rather than rerecordings. Perfect example being "Don't Let Me Down" on Resurgence. Adore that song but it's pretty much a new song to me interpreted by the same singer 45 years later. "He Ain't Heavy" 2020, another one. |
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Post by cameron on Aug 28, 2020 21:12:00 GMT
I don't think that I can make a blanket statement on re-recordings because some are great, like Allan Clarke's re-make of 'Would You Believe' back in 1973, some are awful like the Hollies' remake of 'Just One Look' in 1983 and some are just as good as the original but totally different like Allan's re-make of 'Don't Let Me Down'.
I don't mind an artist re-interpreting a song. Though Marianne Faithful has done 'As Tears Go By' about six times now, each getting measurably worse. I loved Joni Mitchell's 2004 re-take of 'Both Sides Now', which suddenly gave the song so much depth and meaning compared to the sweet songbird sounding original version.
The one thing that I absolutely agree on is those awful 1980s K-tel re-recorded compilations that weren't faithful to the original recordings. The only one I've heard that is a note-for-note and sound-for-sound clone is the Foundations' 'Baby Now That I've Found You', which they've re-recorded more than once, but the early 1980s one was very good. I can't remember if it was the Marmalade or the Tremeloes who did a re-record album in the 1980s for a budget compilation and it worked out okay too. But generally, they're missing the spark that made the original 1960s recording so great.
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Post by baz on Aug 28, 2020 21:55:31 GMT
I don't think that I can make a blanket statement on re-recordings because some are great, like Allan Clarke's re-make of 'Would You Believe' back in 1973, some are awful like the Hollies' remake of 'Just One Look' in 1983 and some are just as good as the original but totally different like Allan's re-make of 'Don't Let Me Down'. I don't mind an artist re-interpreting a song. Though Marianne Faithful has done 'As Tears Go By' about six times now, each getting measurably worse. I loved Joni Mitchell's 2004 re-take of 'Both Sides Now', which suddenly gave the song so much depth and meaning compared to the sweet songbird sounding original version. The one thing that I absolutely agree on is those awful 1980s K-tel re-recorded compilations that weren't faithful to the original recordings. The only one I've heard that is a note-for-note and sound-for-sound clone is the Foundations' 'Baby Now That I've Found You', which they've re-recorded more than once, but the early 1980s one was very good. I can't remember if it was the Marmalade or the Tremeloes who did a re-record album in the 1980s for a budget compilation and it worked out okay too. But generally, they're missing the spark that made the original 1960s recording so great. I'm fine when artistes re-interpret older songs rather than aim for a clone copy and I rather enjoyed Joni's project whereas others I knew hated it but for me the songs sounded better for the years she'd lived in the meantime which gave them a much more potent meaning. I find Joni's earlier albums rather irritating because of her voice, as lovely as it was... same with Marianne Faithfull given you've mentioned her - I much prefer her ravaged voice to the charming high pitched one in her Decca days though it is getting harder to enjoy her in more recent years. Of course, it doesn't always work so well but I have more respect for artistes who do take the chance rather than opt for the easy way out which usually reveals shortcomings and without that glorious vibe that made the originals work so well. I'll give The Hollies credit for some of their revamps they've been doing onstage even though I don't like the results from what I've heard of them but it is unrealistic to expect them to replicate the 60's and 70's sound and vibe, especially with a different singer. |
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Post by rokinrobinoflocksley on Aug 29, 2020 16:09:44 GMT
I too have no use for clone re-recordings. But re-arrangements can be interesting at times (and they can also be train wrecks, ugh). I'm not talking about change for the sake of change, but something that respects the original arrangements and melodies.
Something like Jackie DeShannon's re-do album "When You Walk In The Room" from 2011. She did stripped-down, mostly acoustic guitar arrangements, of 11 of her most popular songs. Slightly laid back, that respected the original versions. And she was in very fine voice too.
I wonder if this could work for Allan, or the current Hollies. Not loud super over-productions, but quieter acoustic thoughtful reflections, authentic, fun and up-tempo, but not sped up. We'd be able to better hear and appreciate the harmonies.
Maybe Allan and Graham (when they get together one day) could give us a double CD, one of new songs, one of Hollies acoustic re-dos. Maybe they could borrow/steal/entice Tony to jump in, for ole times sake, ha...
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Post by Mevrouw Bee on Aug 29, 2020 17:27:25 GMT
I too have no use for clone re-recordings. But re-arrangements can be interesting at times (and they can also be train wrecks, ugh). I'm not talking about change for the sake of change, but something that respects the original arrangements and melodies. Something like Jackie DeShannon's re-do album "When You Walk In The Room" from 2011. She did stripped-down, mostly acoustic guitar arrangements, of 11 of her most popular songs. Slightly laid back, that respected the original versions. And she was in very fine voice too. I wonder if this could work for Allan, or the current Hollies. Not loud super over-productions, but quieter acoustic thoughtful reflections, authentic, fun and up-tempo, but not sped up. We'd be able to better hear and appreciate the harmonies. Maybe Allan and Graham (when they get together one day) could give us a double CD, one of new songs, one of Hollies acoustic re-dos. Maybe they could borrow/steal/entice Tony to jump in, for ole times sake, ha... Unplugged reinterpretations would be nice. Lower harmony vocals, acoustic guitars, harmonica...take on the lesser known album tracks... I'd buy that! |
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Post by sandy on Aug 29, 2020 17:30:29 GMT
I reckon that if, and when, Allan and Graham do hook up, they will do a few Hollies' songs, acoustic and harmony based. Don't think they'll be able to resist 😉
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Post by thejanitor on Aug 30, 2020 12:50:32 GMT
If the group have done a better re-recording in some form (well imo anyways), it's the 1996 version of Peggy Sue Got Married. I know not everyone here is a fan of it and the group are more backing for Buddy's vocal track than at the forefront, but at least it's more closer to a familiar Hollies sound than the over the top fake reggae version from the BH album.
Also, just to show I'm not completely against re-recordings, I enjoy most of the later versions of songs on The Randy Newman Songbook trilogy of albums much more than their originals. Just listening to the man sing his songs on piano for an entire album with no other accompaniment for me creates such an relaxing and great atmosphere.
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