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Post by gee on Aug 26, 2020 19:15:40 GMT
The sad fact is we all know how talented Terry was and what a fine job he did for The Hollies - for him to end up losing a few wives, in more absolute terms his pal Jimmy Griffin, his ex-manager Robin Britten, his Mum and Dad....it's just very sad to see
and of course alcohol is a depressant - Terry maybe needs to go into a rehab or have care to help him sort himself out as these repeated internet blasts at people whom he once was friends with or working buddies at least suggests he has 'issues' that need to be addressed sooner not later
just hope Terry can sort himself out
re The Hollies - I agree with Cameron and feel that that a key part of their problem must have been down to both Allan Clarke never being assertive enough (which effectively scuppered his solo career from taking off bigger) plus the very 'workmanlike' attitude of Tony Hicks
when Graham Nash was with them they had a good group balance beyond as a performing unit - Nash had the adventurous ideas, got them songwriting (for the money to start with) on a more regular basis and had a big influence on their band direction in the 'arty' department
Tony Hicks being a top musician called the shots in the studio re turning Nash's ideas into actual music (along with Bobby) and also was chief song finder for the band
Nash and Hicks effectively 'co-led' the band over 1964-67 with Hicks agreeing Nash's idea re going into psychedelia...until the move proved commercially not viable for them
- Hicks was quite happy to allow Nash to lead them creatively, allow outside instrumentation to replace his guitar at times (too often maybe ?) as long as things worked BUT once 'King Midas' and 'Butterfly' flopped Hicks reeled in the slack he'd freely allowed Nash (backed up by Ron Richards even Allan Clarke too who was feeling more marginalised by Nash's solo vocal songs)
hence by 1968 Nash was fast losing interest and looking across the pond to CSN....leaving the band firmly in Hicks capable if less inclined to be experimental hands (tho' the Dylan arrangements were quite imaginative)
Allan Clarke SHOULD have been a key player in all this as the power behind The Hollies went from Nash-Hicks over to Hicks...yet he seemed quite happy to just watch it all go on around him which seems so strange - tho' Allan had some building 'issues' even then in the late sixties it seems and certainly for such a major lead singer in a top UK chart band his visibly sweating and looking noticeably ill at ease in that February 1969 Golders Green concert (where he sang great !) surprisingly to the public would at least initially look to be so 'lost' minus his oldest friend....
Allan did quickly rise to the task of fronting The Hollies well minus Nash but obviously chose never to co-lead the band happy to leave all that up to Tony (shades of Paul leading The Beatles from 1967)
Allan discovered even he was apparently not indispensible by later 1971 - and he later in truth actually rejoined Tony and Bobby's Hollies band NOT the Clarke, Nash, Haydock co-founded Hollies - in late summer 1973, tho' Allan clearly was much needed by them but even that didn't give him more mileage beyond being allowed his solo albums in exchange for his putting The Hollies first
so Tony pretty much dictated things after Nash left - ironic Tony and Graham always seemed to get along well (they were penning 'Carrie Anne' minus Allan for most of the song) and Graham had urged Tony to include and sing himself his song 'Pegasus' on 'Butterfly' - Tony apparently even took time out to go and visit Graham during the early seventies USA concert tour - while during the 'What Goes Around' reunion Graham stayed with Tony and Jane here in the UK, plus The Hicks had holidays at the Nash homes...
so curiously Hicks and Nash seemed to be naturally friendlier even 'post Nash' era than Hicks and Clarke ever were even when in the Hollies later on...
Tony Hicks very blunt 'tell it as you see it' probably somewhat dogmatic attitude has been a strength in The Hollies but no doubt also a weakness probably re band member relationships over the years
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Post by roots66 on Aug 26, 2020 19:30:34 GMT
It sounds to me, from Bobby's book, that Terry really had it in for Allan for most of the '70s and this was creating a lot of difficulties in the group. I think ultimately Tony decided it was better to have Allan in the group than Terry. I think Robin Britten instigated it, that being said.
Read a book by "super groupie" Pamela Des Barres over the weekend, Let's Spend The Night Together," with a chapter each on the exploits of an individual groupie (Purely for research! That's my story and I'm sticking to it!  ). There's a chapter by one named Dee Dee in which she boasts that she was with ALL the Hollies (something something bubblebaths and ice cubes, lol).
However, she goes on to call them a quartet and talks in detail about her affair with "lead singer" Terry Sylvester while they were touring the US. Mentioned it on Twitter, tagging Pamela, asking "since when were they a quartet" and "since when was Terry the lead singer" and she replied that I should check out her podcast interview with Dee Dee.
Which I might...just because I'm curious about how much shite Terry was shovelling even that long ago...Unless somebody here can clarify...Did they keep Rickfors in a box between shows to make sure he didn't escape?
My theory is that this happened during one of Allan's late '70s departures. In the Dee Dee chapter it is stated that the "British foursome" was in L.A. to record an album when the yogurt-enhanced debauchery occurred. I cross-referenced this with a mention in a July 1978 Trouser Press article about Allan: "The Hollies reportedly will be continuing with the former lead singer of the Arrows, and have plans to record in Los Angeles in June or July with Boston's producer, John Boylan." [For various reasons the situation with the Arrows' Alan Merrill, or any other possible replacement lead vocalist, didn't pan out. And BTW, Merrill passed from COVID quite early on in the pandemic.] You can see the article here...scroll down a bit and click on the issue with the Todd Rundgren cover. trouserpress.com/magazine-covers-3/ |
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Post by Mevrouw Bee on Aug 26, 2020 20:08:27 GMT
I think Robin Britten instigated it, that being said.
Read a book by "super groupie" Pamela Des Barres over the weekend, Let's Spend The Night Together," with a chapter each on the exploits of an individual groupie (Purely for research! That's my story and I'm sticking to it! ). There's a chapter by one named Dee Dee in which she boasts that she was with ALL the Hollies (something something bubblebaths and ice cubes, lol).
However, she goes on to call them a quartet and talks in detail about her affair with "lead singer" Terry Sylvester while they were touring the US. Mentioned it on Twitter, tagging Pamela, asking "since when were they a quartet" and "since when was Terry the lead singer" and she replied that I should check out her podcast interview with Dee Dee.
Which I might...just because I'm curious about how much shite Terry was shovelling even that long ago...Unless somebody here can clarify...Did they keep Rickfors in a box between shows to make sure he didn't escape?
My theory is that this happened during one of Allan's late '70s departures. In the Dee Dee chapter it is stated that the "British foursome" was in L.A. to record an album when the yogurt-enhanced debauchery occurred. I cross-referenced this with a mention in a July 1978 Trouser Press article about Allan: "The Hollies reportedly will be continuing with the former lead singer of the Arrows, and have plans to record in Los Angeles in June or July with Boston's producer, John Boylan." [For various reasons the situation with the Arrows' Alan Merrill, or any other possible replacement lead vocalist, didn't pan out. And BTW, Merrill passed from COVID quite early on in the pandemic.] You can see the article here...scroll down a bit and click on the issue with the Todd Rundgren cover. trouserpress.com/magazine-covers-3/GAH! A new rabbit hole! Thank youuu...lol Interesting article...I don't hold anybody to opinions made in the past, especially over 40 years ago. We have the perogative to change our minds and learn from experience. But it does answer a few questions about the state of things at the time.
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Post by Malc on Aug 26, 2020 21:07:25 GMT
Didn't the Boylan connection reportedly fizzle out before it got started ? I don't believe they ever started recording over in LA during that era ? My theory, and I could be way off base, is that Dee Dee encountered them during the lengthy Rickfors tour, when they had time off in LA before the final show. I know it was only a few days, and they were a quintet (not as she claims) but there was still a buzz around them during that period in the US and that seems a far more likely timeline to me. Somehow, I can't see the so-called Whisky groupies showing much interest during the latter part of the decade when the new wave/punk scene was rife, and US interest was minimal at best...
With all respect to her 'recollections' but she had a pretty full life to remember 'everything' correctly.
So, who's going to pose the Q to TS on Twitter ? Mind you, with his current outbursts supporting Melania he's clearly too busy to reminisce...
EDIT : Further research reveals that they spent a week or so in California when they returned shortly after the tour, this time to film the In Concert appearance at the Santa Monica Auditorium, followed by the Midnight Special slot. My money's on that timeframe...
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Post by cameron on Aug 26, 2020 23:01:44 GMT
I've always said that the worst thing that Graham ever did was leave the Hollies. Not for the Hollies' sake, but his own. All his well known and successful material that came after the Hollies was written while he was in the Hollies, with the exception of 'Our House' and 'Chicago'. I even think 'I Used To Be King' was written while he was a Hollie I saw mentioned somewhere once? He and Tony seemed to always be the most compatible in the group. Both great songwriters but also with an ear on the money. This is why the Hollies were so great - it wasn't a case of "this is the good bones of a song, let's record it", they viewed songs objectively and analysed what made songs hits and what made them memorable. Bobby too was key in providing a lot of the arrangements in the studio that would give their songs an edge over everyone else's, such as the doubling up of the beat at the end of 'I'm Alive' and the quiet breakdown in the middle of 'I Can't Let Go'. These were pretty unusual features in pop songs at the time, and the Hollies don't get enough credit for how great they were. Even Graham Gouldman admits that they took 'Bus Stop' to a whole different league with THEIR arrangement of it. None of the lead guitar bits were on his demo, unlike 'Look Through Any Window', that was all Tony Hicks.
I feel like Graham just worked so well with them. Like Gee says, Graham had the ambition and Tony had the practicality to make it into a hit. Allan was the poet of the group, his influence cannot be overstated - the vivid imagery in Hollies songs is down to Allan. Graham was very literal and Tony very ambiguous with their lyrics on their solo penned stuff. Allan seemed to strike comfortably down the middle. The three of them just worked so well, which is why it was so devastating that they didn't write more together during the 1981 reunion.
Although Terry Sylvester was a better fit for their vocal sound than Graham, I don't believe that Terry quite replaced Graham in the songwriting department. They needed Graham's ambition to be either artistic/ballsy with the song's direction or want to write a hit that was going to earn them a lot of money. He did it for CSN(Y) too, their most commercially successful radio-friendly hits were all Graham's. Although Crosby, Stills and Young had the more artistic material, Graham's was the material that kept the bank rolling.
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Post by Mevrouw Bee on Aug 26, 2020 23:04:36 GMT
Didn't the Boylan connection reportedly fizzle out before it got started ? I don't believe they ever started recording over in LA during that era ? My theory, and I could be way off base, is that Dee Dee encountered them during the lengthy Rickfors tour, when they had time off in LA before the final show. I know it was only a few days, and they were a quintet (not as she claims) but there was still a buzz around them during that period in the US and that seems a far more likely timeline to me. Somehow, I can't see the so-called Whisky groupies showing much interest during the latter part of the decade when the new wave/punk scene was rife, and US interest was minimal at best... With all respect to her 'recollections' but she had a pretty full life to remember 'everything' correctly. So, who's going to pose the Q to TS on Twitter ? Mind you, with his current outbursts supporting Melania he's clearly too busy to reminisce... EDIT : Further research reveals that they spent a week or so in California when they returned shortly after the tour, this time to film the In Concert appearance at the Santa Monica Auditorium, followed by the Midnight Special slot. My money's on that timeframe... Still have to listen to the podcast. But here's a screenshot...according to Dee Dee, there was interest by the Whisky groupies...maybe because the Nash history gave them some residual clout?
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Post by Mevrouw Bee on Aug 26, 2020 23:07:56 GMT
I've always said that the worst thing that Graham ever did was leave the Hollies. Not for the Hollies' sake, but his own. All his well known and successful material that came after the Hollies was written while he was in the Hollies, with the exception of 'Our House' and 'Chicago'. I even think 'I Used To Be King' was written while he was a Hollie I saw mentioned somewhere once? He and Tony seemed to always be the most compatible in the group. Both great songwriters but also with an ear on the money. This is why the Hollies were so great - it wasn't a case of "this is the good bones of a song, let's record it", they viewed songs objectively and analysed what made songs hits and what made them memorable. Bobby too was key in providing a lot of the arrangements in the studio that would give their songs an edge over everyone else's, such as the doubling up of the beat at the end of 'I'm Alive' and the quiet breakdown in the middle of 'I Can't Let Go'. These were pretty unusual features in pop songs at the time, and the Hollies don't get enough credit for how great they were. Even Graham Gouldman admits that they took 'Bus Stop' to a whole different league with THEIR arrangement of it. None of the lead guitar bits were on his demo, unlike 'Look Through Any Window', that was all Tony Hicks. I feel like Graham just worked so well with them. Like Gee says, Graham had the ambition and Tony had the practicality to make it into a hit. Allan was the poet of the group, his influence cannot be overstated - the vivid imagery in Hollies songs is down to Allan. Graham was very literal and Tony very ambiguous with their lyrics on their solo penned stuff. Allan seemed to strike comfortably down the middle. The three of them just worked so well, which is why it was so devastating that they didn't write more together during the 1981 reunion. Although Terry Sylvester was a better fit for their vocal sound than Graham, I don't believe that Terry quite replaced Graham in the songwriting department. They needed Graham's ambition to be either artistic/ballsy with the song's direction or want to write a hit that was going to earn them a lot of money. He did it for CSN(Y) too, their most commercially successful radio-friendly hits were all Graham's. Although Crosby, Stills and Young had the more artistic material, Graham's was the material that kept the bank rolling. And that's why you can't underestimate the personal reasons for it, which too many people do, usually dissing the "small minded Hollies," using it as an excuse to write them off as a pop singles band. Graham wanted a life change and was in love with Joni. CSN made him realize that he didn't have to compromise his professional side. |
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Post by Malc on Aug 27, 2020 6:38:52 GMT
Still have to listen to the podcast. But here's a screenshot...according to Dee Dee, there was interest by the Whisky groupies...maybe because the Nash history gave them some residual clout? My point exactly ! During the Rickfors-era they were also still basking in the success of Long Cool Woman in the US, and would have been a significant notch on the bedpost for any LA groupie. The Crazy Steal period.. not so. |
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Post by roots66 on Aug 27, 2020 19:52:02 GMT
Still have to listen to the podcast. But here's a screenshot...according to Dee Dee, there was interest by the Whisky groupies...maybe because the Nash history gave them some residual clout? My point exactly ! During the Rickfors-era they were also still basking in the success of Long Cool Woman in the US, and would have been a significant notch on the bedpost for any LA groupie. The Crazy Steal period.. not so. All good points, and I see in his memoirs Bobby discusses some carousing at the Whisky during this time frame (though not Dee Dee specifically). |
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Post by cameron on Aug 27, 2020 22:09:59 GMT
I don't like thinking of this kind of thing, I always think of the Hollies as such clean-cut guys haha. But Terry has made threats to "expose" some of the sordid things that went on in the group in his "tell all" autobiography that he's been floating around for longer than Graham Nash took to write and publish his and since undo all the nice things he said about David Crosby and his now ex-wife in three quarters of the book. Terry implied that his stories implicated Tony.
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Post by Mevrouw Bee on Aug 27, 2020 22:57:26 GMT
I don't like thinking of this kind of thing, I always think of the Hollies as such clean-cut guys haha. But Terry has made threats to "expose" some of the sordid things that went on in the group in his "tell all" autobiography that he's been floating around for longer than Graham Nash took to write and publish his and since undo all the nice things he said about David Crosby and his now ex-wife in three quarters of the book. Terry implied that his stories implicated Tony. Ice cubes and yogurt. I will say nothing more. 
Re: Susan...to be perfectly honest, I came away after reading Nash's book wondering why she left me so cold. And that was a couple of years before they split.
In general, it's what Nash didn't say in the book that left more of an impression on me than what he did say. The positive part of that is that his love and respect for Allan and his privacy was obvious.
But I felt as if Nash were hiding his real self behind Croz stories (which I didn't care about).
In retrospect, it seemed to be a book from a man at the crossroads of his life that eventually helped him make some life-changing decisions.
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). There's a chapter by one named Dee Dee in which she boasts that she was with ALL the Hollies (something something bubblebaths and ice cubes, lol). 
