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Post by Malc on May 13, 2020 18:23:44 GMT
Greetings... Don't post here much, just lurk daily in the background - but hoping someone can help me... SOMEWHERE - and I'm damned if I can recall where, I've heard Allan (possibly on one his recent interviews) make comment about how disappointed he was with Terry's actions at the 2010 R&R Hall of Fame ceremony. Don't wish to rake over old coals again, but can anyone point me in the direction of where he referenced it ? On numerous occasions he's said about how great the evening was but this time was different... I'm 99.9% sure it WAS Allan (but 0.1% think it may have been Graham). Anyhoo... any help would be muchly appreciated
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Post by JamesT on May 14, 2020 5:29:39 GMT
You're not Terry, are you? 😉
Quick test:
David Beckham - love/hate? Elton John - no, don't answer that, it's a family forum Bobby Elliott - quality author or co-leader of a bunch of sidemen Writing a book - do you have a best-seller in you?
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Post by dirtyfaz on May 14, 2020 8:48:32 GMT
JamesT, What the ?
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Post by Malc on May 14, 2020 13:32:30 GMT
Quick test: David Beckham - love/hate? Elton John - no, don't answer that, it's a family forum Bobby Elliott - quality author or co-leader of a bunch of sidemen Writing a book - do you have a best-seller in you? Answers: Admire, but I've never supported MUFC or bought one of his wife's solo recordings... Admire, but I've only got a Greatest Hits CD set at best... Admire, enjoyed the book but felt it could have given up a lot more... Maybe, but that'd be telling... EDIT: Found the interview I was looking for - but thanks anyway !
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Post by Malc on May 14, 2020 15:56:55 GMT
It's OK ! No intention of stirring anything up but just curious as to both sides...
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Post by sandy on May 14, 2020 16:03:28 GMT
It's OK ! No intention of stirring anything up but just curious as to both sides...
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Post by sandy on May 14, 2020 16:06:59 GMT
It's OK ! No intention of stirring anything up but just curious as to both sides... 😉I know. I'm torn. All I know is that Terry has recently said he's still hurt, and a lot of his bitter lashings out obviously come from that deep deep feeling.Theres no going back from it now I reckon. It's a shame. Get the feeling Graham orchestrated most of what went on, and Allan may have been stuck in the middle. It's just sad, isn't it.
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Post by JamesT on May 14, 2020 16:28:00 GMT
But what the hell has Bobby done to him?
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Post by sandy on May 14, 2020 16:33:22 GMT
😉I know. I'm torn. All I know is that Terry has recently said he's still hurt, and a lot of his bitter lashings out obviously come from that deep deep feeling.Theres no going back from it now I reckon. It's a shame. Get the feeling Graham orchestrated most of what went on, and Allan may have been stuck in the middle. It's just sad, isn't it. Weeelll.... I suspect his passage about Terry saying the Hollies 'would be nothing without him,' or words to that effect, then Tony saying ' do you want to bet?', followed by " the trapdoor opened, and that was the end of Sylvester" . Wounded pride and hurt can be a fierce thing,sadly, especially for a bloke.Sad.
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Post by sandy on May 14, 2020 16:39:20 GMT
😉I know. I'm torn. All I know is that Terry has recently said he's still hurt, and a lot of his bitter lashings out obviously come from that deep deep feeling.Theres no going back from it now I reckon. It's a shame. Get the feeling Graham orchestrated most of what went on, and Allan may have been stuck in the middle. It's just sad, isn't it. Weeelll.... I suspect his passage about Terry saying the Hollies 'would be nothing without him,' or words to that effect, then Tony saying ' do you want to bet?', followed by " the trapdoor opened, and that was the end of Sylvester" . Wounded pride and hurt can be a fierce thing,sadly, especially for a bloke.Sad. Hello, by the way 😊Been surfing on here on and off for years, but finally joined up😊 You're going to have to be patient with me if I botch the posts up😅not sure I'm doing it correctly 😂
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Post by JamesT on May 14, 2020 16:58:23 GMT
Welcome, Sandy. 👍
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Post by Mevrouw Bee on May 14, 2020 19:17:41 GMT
Weeelll.... I suspect his passage about Terry saying the Hollies 'would be nothing without him,' or words to that effect, then Tony saying ' do you want to bet?', followed by " the trapdoor opened, and that was the end of Sylvester" . Wounded pride and hurt can be a fierce thing,sadly, especially for a bloke.Sad. Hello, by the way 😊Been surfing on here on and off for years, but finally joined up😊 You're going to have to be patient with me if I botch the posts up😅not sure I'm doing it correctly 😂 So far, so good, Sandy! Welcome!
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2020 19:27:31 GMT
W̶e̶l̶c̶o̶m̶e̶ ̶T̶e̶r̶r̶y̶!̶
Welcome Sandy!
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Post by sandy on May 14, 2020 19:45:14 GMT
W̶e̶l̶c̶o̶m̶e̶ ̶T̶e̶r̶r̶y̶!̶ Welcome Sandy! 😂😅I like to think I have empathy...😂😅
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Post by dirtyfaz on May 15, 2020 1:12:42 GMT
The shame about the Terry saga of supposed bitterness is that not one of us was there actually at the time(so none of us can comment with certainty) and do not know the events that transpired. He may have a real valid reasons for his grievence. I don't have or participate on twitter so I don't see what he has to say. I will bet it is not all bad but humans don't care about the good only the bad. They make assumptions and read into things and put their own spin on it.
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Post by Mevrouw Bee on May 15, 2020 2:01:10 GMT
The shame about the Terry saga of supposed bitterness is that not one of us was there actually at the time(so none of us can comment with certainty) and do not know the events that transpired. He may have a real valid reasons for his grievence. I don't have or participate on twitter so I don't see what he has to say. I will bet it is not all bad but humans don't care about the good only the bad. They make assumptions and read into things and put their own spin on it. Those of us commenting have actually seen the tweets, which I think is more valid than what you "bet," sorry. Why would we -- fans of Terry's -- want to believe the bad and not the good? That makes no sense. The most positive spin I can put on his Twitter feed is that a) he never mentions Tony (interestingly), b) he never disses Allan's singing, past or present, c) he still loves Bernie. Hope that makes you feel better, but really don't appreciate your lack of trust regarding what we've seen with our own eyes, and you haven't. If he feels he has a valid beef against Bobby, snipey comments about his baldness and the bags under his eyes doesn't help his case. And it's been 10 years since the R&RHoF. Validity to his claims or not, he's doing more damage to his legacy now than anybody else might have done that evening.
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Post by Tony Wilkinson on May 15, 2020 6:45:29 GMT
The shame about the Terry saga of supposed bitterness is that not one of us was there actually at the time(so none of us can comment with certainty) and do not know the events that transpired. He may have a real valid reasons for his grievence. I don't have or participate on twitter so I don't see what he has to say. I will bet it is not all bad but humans don't care about the good only the bad. They make assumptions and read into things and put their own spin on it. You don't need to be on Twitter (I'm not) to follow what's going on with Terry twitter.com/Terry_SylvesterJust click on his tweets and you can see the conversations, it's just that you can't comment or reply.....
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2020 8:22:59 GMT
The shame about the Terry saga of supposed bitterness is that not one of us was there actually at the time(so none of us can comment with certainty) and do not know the events that transpired. He may have a real valid reasons for his grievence. I don't have or participate on twitter so I don't see what he has to say. I will bet it is not all bad but humans don't care about the good only the bad. They make assumptions and read into things and put their own spin on it. You don't need to be on Twitter (I'm not) to follow what's going on with Terry twitter.com/Terry_SylvesterJust click on his tweets and you can see the conversations, it's just that you can't comment or reply..... Yes, that's how I check out things on twitter and facebook.
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Post by gee on May 15, 2020 10:13:31 GMT
it's so sad this issue still lingers as it must upset Hollies fans and does the band's legacy no favors at all
Regrettably MOST Hollie band members left the group under something of a cloud - from Don Rathbone being eased out in 1963 to Allan Clarke's 'retirement' in 1999 it seems only Graham Nash left reasonably amicably in late 1968 given Allan was of course hurt and upset at the time
My GUESS - and it's only that - is the big 'issue' here re Terry has it's roots in a number of factors both to do with and before Terry joined the band plus his exit in 1981
Before Terry;
Nash I suspect has long felt some personal 'guilt' deep down re how things turned out re him and his old schoolchum Allan - not so much anything 'professional' re Nash being so successful with CSNY etc in the USA as he took the considerable risk leaving a safe guaranteed money public profile job in The Hollies to pursue his er 'American dream' - but more on a 'personal' level how he left Allan behind from his old life which he discarded - indeed Allan's song 'My Life is Over With You' reflects Clarkey's side of it
- and Nash, like him or not, then being so very successful with CSN CSNY, C & N and solo over 1969-77 etc we know would have rankled with Allan alot and despite The Hollies enjoying 'life after Nash' so successfully led to Clarkey's 1971 exit as he sought to copy Nash's move....but without any of the the careful planning re CSN and a record deal etc that Nash had quietly done before he made his move
of course Allan's solo move proved unsuccessfully while Clarkey's absence from The Hollies as LCW stormed up the USA chart then saw Allan miss out again...so I would think Nash deep down felt he should do something for his oldest friend to give him some belated USA attention and he used the Hall of Fame induction to give Allan some due stateside proper recognition....
this is maybe understandable from Nash's angle as he would see Clarkey and himself 'Ricky and Dane' as the true founders of the band (we know Eric was too) but with Tony Hicks and Bobby Elliott not coming along I suspect Nash focused the thing on Clarke and himself as the main Hollies members present on the evening...
Nash possibly saw; Eric as the guy they sacked years ago when he began missing shows Bernie as 'Tony and Bobby's old bandmate' who helped us out Terry as - our old scouse mate who came in when I left...
While Mike Rickfors never even got a mention at all...!
I am NOT saying Nash was right of course but I suspect this along with the absence of Tony and Bobby plus the American TV network etc was why Graham and Allan were seated on the top table away from the others etc...
so this part of it with Nash turning it into something of 'A Night for Allan' was more to do with the longstanding situation between Nash and Clarke re their relationship as oldest friends from schooldays Terry's side of it; Terry gave the band around twelve years or so of faithful service as both a performing artist and as a songwriter, ensuring The Hollies had life after Nash, and was a key part of their albums during a critically lauded era, then became a chief group figurehead in the 'Rickfors Hollies' period singing LCW to American audiences ....
....however with Allan's increasing problems as the seventies went on - apparently threatening to leave each year, departing again in 1978 just when 'Twenty Golden Greats' stormed up the UK charts in almost a rerun of LCW in the USA in 1972, then Clarkey returning, the problem re the German tour they had to complete without him....and then the ousting of Robin Britten, plus Terry (like Nash by 1968) finding himself up against a brick wall of the three 'senior Hollies' re musical direction as Clarke's idea re 'Buddy Holly' proved a commercial disaster...and finally Clarke apparently wanting them to stop touring by 1981 saw years of frustration and lingering probably minor issues grow and grow finally led to Terry's outbursts which were likely OTT re his own importance to the band but that probably was as much sheer frustration rather than his actual belief but of course gave them the chance to drop him from the band
Bobby covering this spring / early summer 1981 period in his recent book has likely re-opened an old wound for Terry in addition to his ongoing simmering hurt re the way he was overlooked at the Hall of Fame induction show
Terry, Eric, and Bernie were of course badly overlooked at that show and had Tony and Bobby been present things would presumably been very different re the performing issue with a full tribute to The Hollies as opposed to any 'Night for Allan' thing
I do think that Terry rather 'uses' the unjust treatment he got that night however, in order to effectively cling on to Nash, Clarke and The Hollies coats by association as something to boost his own public profile - most people would likely think he should 'let it GO' by now and just celebrate being in the Hall of Fame at all (many more better known music figures are not) plus he is the FIFTH Liverpudlian after the Fab Four to be inducted when many Merseybeat legendary figures have been to date overlooked - something Terry never seems to appreciate
Had Nash and Clarke - with Hicks and then Elliott - not led The Hollies to 18 consecutive UK hit singles and international success Terry would never have had a top band to join in 1969 and his career would largely have been that of a in reality 'passed over' second generation Merseybeat figure like many of his very talented scouse contemporaries and certainly NOT a Hall of Fame inductee
Today Terry still plays on his Hollies past more than anything, so he needs to try to get himself together, get the past into some kind of perspective, drop the bile infested online rants that do him no favors and try to boost his career by celebrating his Hollies and Mersybeat musical past
Terry also needs to smarten up his image - which when you think how good he always looked in the sixties and seventies is mind boggling !
just my view....
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Post by Stranger on May 15, 2020 10:43:12 GMT
The most positive spin I can put on his Twitter feed is that a) he never mentions Tony (interestingly), b) he never disses Allan's singing, past or present, c) he still loves Bernie. I'm afraid you are wrong on b) ! He was right out of the traps on Twitter to have a go at his signing when his new stuff first appeared. In fairness to Terry, his obsession lead him to be about the first person to review Allan's comeback!
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2020 12:27:02 GMT
it's so sad this issue still lingers as it must upset Hollies fans and does the band's legacy no favors at all. It doesn't upset me, nor damage their legacy. Besides, in comparison to The Beach Boys, The Searchers and dozens more, The Hollies' disagreements are just a very minor upset!
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Post by gee on May 15, 2020 13:29:20 GMT
I disagree - such things don't do their legacy as a band any GOOD do they...?
I know from what some Hollies fans have told me over the years such things do affect how they regard individuals and it has upset their regard for those
having band members or ex-band members throwing nasty insults around belittles them as individuals and suggests just how much all was not well in the band behind the scenes which is not a positive thing at all - fine if you need to know that of course but this retrospective sniping is so petty and probably fuelled beforehand
airing 'dirty washing' in public may be fascinating to some who need to know the full picture but it's pretty pathetic if not downright boring for me
I would prefer NOT to know about Terry's never ending 'issues' or his embittered vindictive rants - which I do suspect are mainly done for purposes of trying to associate himself with a bigger name in the music business in the USA - and just remember him as the key 'mark 2' Hollies figurehead member and Merseybeat figure he was in his prime when he was such a positive ambassador for his group The Hollies various Hall of Fame induction shows have shown what a right bunch some bands were which doesn't enhance their reputations - Blondie and Creedence were prime examples and the so called 'Terrygate' fiasco didn't make The ex-Hollie members look good no doubt leaving Tony and Bobby only too glad they were not there
anyway, enough, I need to get back to my ongoing feud with Bob Dylan....
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Post by Mevrouw Bee on May 15, 2020 13:36:30 GMT
The most positive spin I can put on his Twitter feed is that a) he never mentions Tony (interestingly), b) he never disses Allan's singing, past or present, c) he still loves Bernie. I'm afraid you are wrong on b) ! He was right out of the traps on Twitter to have a go at his signing when his new stuff first appeared. In fairness to Terry, his obsession lead him to be about the first person to review Allan's comeback! Might have missed that then (new to Twitter after a long break). But I've seen no cracks about Resurgence. Terry's sniping usually seems limited to the HoF (the ironic "grumpy old man druggies" comments) and Allan's solo career, prompting a crack about how he was a great singer but not too smart
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Post by Mevrouw Bee on May 15, 2020 13:42:30 GMT
it's so sad this issue still lingers as it must upset Hollies fans and does the band's legacy no favors at all. It doesn't upset me, nor damage their legacy. Besides, in comparison to The Beach Boys, The Searchers and dozens more, The Hollies' disagreements are just a very minor upset! Has Keith and Micks sniping hurt the Stones for example? The "brotherly" relationship between Ray and Dave Davies? The only difference being -- perhaps -- that my examples are between two guys who deep down love each other like Graham and Allan, and the Hollies' issues, after Nash left, appear to be pretty much all business.
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Post by Mevrouw Bee on May 15, 2020 13:43:51 GMT
anyway, enough, I need to get back to my ongoing feud with Bob Dylan.... Lmao! Are you on Twitter then? I'd love to follow...
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