Lost Hollies mid 70s American recordings

[Gralto]

Hi All,

I've seen the occasional passing reference to this in various articles but nothing that gives more solid details. The story goes - from memory here, don't have my notes handy - that an offer from America (Epic?) came in for the Hollies to re-record some of their existing recordings with their original lead singer. This happened around the time that Rickfors was about to leave the band in mid -late 1973. We all know the story about Clarke rejoining and the recordings at Abbey Road that quickly ensued. But nothing has ever been detailed as far I can recall about the specifics of this rather startling Hollies fork in the road moment.

Does anyone know the details of this approach? If any recordings were undertaken, they didn't happen at Abbey Road due to the survival of the session sheets revealing nothing out of the ordinary. Nothing also is listed in Bobby's sessionography. Who made this approach to The H? Did any recordings actually take place in the USA? What songs were earmarked? How far did this project progress?

Personally, if this had progressed, this could have been the band's early exit into the circuit they thankfully managed to successfully avoid, appearing alongside the likes of reduced original member line ups such as Wayne Fontana & The Mindbenders, Gerry & The Pacemakers, Herman's Hermits et al on the revival merry go round. As an aside, when I was backpacking around mainland Europe in 1996, I was amazed to discover a poster for a forthcoming gig for Peter Noone in a small venue in Vienna while I was passing through town. So this is where the artists still trying to make a living from a chart career long since passed ended up? Noone in Austria?

Back to the USA offer - I'm trying not to picture MOR versions of King Midas, Stay, Carrie Anne and Bus Stop being laid down! Perhaps attempts at countrified slowed down versions of Here I Go Again or We're Through - the mind boggles! Thank goodness they carried on with writing their own material, even if their 1974-80 results didn't eclipse their albums from the 1969-73 period.
Anyone got any info on this 'lost' Hollies project? Perhaps Mr Southall's book will reveal all and save us the trouble of searching for answers.

(And in case anyone thinks my dissecting of The Hollies 1974-77 singles in a previous post suggests my complete disregard for this period, there are tracks across all albums during this time that have significant merit. I may have dissed Im Down as a 45 selection but the harmonies and the production values are superb. Did Sylvester ever sing a better high harmony than on this song? I've always really liked the melody on I'm Down, I just think the lyrics either needed a less earnest re-write or they include it, as is, on an album. It's a majestic near-miss IMHO.)

cheers
Simon

[stuball]

Simon, that's fascinating to say the least, and although it will probably remain in the realm of conjecture, here's where my thoughts take me:

Back in late '72 and '73, in America there was a palpable wave of musical nostalgia in general, and of 'the British Invasion' of '64-'65 in particular. In 1973 a British Invasion package was put together featuring Herman's Hermits, the Searchers and others (acts that had been laughingly dismissed a few years earlier), and they played top venues(Madison Square Gardens etc,) throughout the U.S. They were booked on the Midnight Special I believe as well. The public appetite for this was huge, but of short duration. By 1974, it had pretty much passed.

This was also the time when US and Canadian networks began heavily advertising Greatest Hits packages. Marketers such as K-Tel made a fortune through telemarketing pushing nostalgic memories of yesterday's chart toppers. And in every store one saw albums of assorted British Invasion acts, including people like Adam Faith and Helen Shapiro, who were largely unknown over here.

With that as a general background, let's get to specifics:

In early '73, Epic announced a future release of Hollies Greatest Hits. It was to be a double album. It never happened. Was it because of the relative failure of the latest Hollies singles without Clarke (Magic Woman Touch, Jesus Was A Crossmaker etc.)? Did Epic execs get cold feet and decide to scale things back? Whatever, only a single LP appeared in stores come autumn '73.

Now with The Hollies unsettled with Rickfors, and Clarke disappointed with the sputtering start to his solo career, how did the mechanics work of approaching Allan about the possibility of his return to the group. Years ago, Terry Sylvester mentioned that it was HE who first broached the subject with Clarke, when he and Allan met to discuss putting their voices on re-recordings of old Hollies hits. I've tended to dismiss this for as we now know, Terry's role in Hollies Ltd. seemed to be of the 'Shut up and sing' nature. Surely Hollies Ltd. wouldn't allow Sylvester to speak for them. Or would they? Recall it was Hollies Ltd. (Hicks and Elliott, not Sylvester) who had given Clarke the ultimatum that resulted in him walking out. In other words, Alan's relations with Terry may still have been cordial. Was Terry acting as an emissary of the group or perhaps speaking solely for himself, as in, 'Gee Al, it would sure be great to have you back in the group!'

And then the plot thickens again. What re-recordings of 'old Hollies Hits'? Was it for a K-Tel style TV marketed product. Personally I doubt that. But remember that Epic Greatest Hits package slated for Autumn '73 release? And remember all US and Canadian releases up to Carrie-Anne were owned by Liberty and Capitol records respectively. Was this a bargaining chip used by Epic to pry a better deal re lease of the older hits. ie, 'we'll just re-record the 'Just One Looks' and 'Bus Stops' with Allan and Terry, if you won't be reasonable'.

Another thing to remember was at this point Allan was a solo artist and Terry was about to embark on his solo career. Legally, is it possible Alan and Terry could have loaned their voices as soloists to these old Hollies re-recordings. Who knows? Thankfully, it all remains conjecture.

[Stranger]

Jun 16, 2015 16:54:33 GMT stuball said:

Back in late '72 and '73, in America there was a palpable wave of musical nostalgia in general, and of 'the British Invasion' of '64-'65 in particular. In 1973 a British Invasion package was put together featuring Herman's Hermits, the Searchers and others (acts that had been laughingly dismissed a few years earlier), and they played top venues(Madison Square Gardens etc,) throughout the U.S. They were booked on the Midnight Special I believe as well. The public appetite for this was huge, but of short duration. 

Fascinating stuff Gee, Stuball and Simon, BUT I am going to drag it slightly off topic based on this comment.

It always amazes me that with about Tten top ten hits and a current Top 3 in 1974 the Hollies couldn't become a viable touring act in the US. Surely there was an opportunity to exploit this success. If I can relate it to the other thread, if the Hollies became an "oldies" act in '74, not a cheap package tour act but a headlining act and shifted there focus from chasing hits to touring, they could have become huge!

I know they had a real image problem in the US i.e. the press was surprised when the Rickfors line up toured and were able to play their own instruments!

In the UK, The Hollies could have done a Beach Boys in '74 and instead of become "America's Band", become "Britain's Band". And in the US, they could have done this on a smaller scale by pushing the greatest hits. Who couldn't sell a live show with all those classic hits including a recent monster LCW and a current Top 3? The Beach Boys couldn't get 6 people at a gig in 1970 and in 1974 they were massive.

Instead they were engaging in this sort of insanity, a MEDLEY of all the songs people were actually paying to hear!

[moorlock2003]

The biggest error BY FAR was the lackadaisical promotion for the '74 reunion LP with Clarke. Why on earth didn't Epic records in the States INSIST upon a tour? This LP did well enough to be called a hit (#28) on the strength of "The Air That I Breathe", but the LP was filled with wonderful songs that would have been fabulous in a live concert. Songs like "It's A Shame, It's A Game" and "Rubber Lucy", as well as others, had so much personality (a trait that the band has been criticized for having a lack of) and humour that it is really a "shame" they didn't take the logical step and have a proper tour to promote this fine LP. No tour? Why why why?

[JamesT]

Jun 20, 2015 10:03:56 GMT gee said:

I have never understood the band's reluctance to properly 'plug' their 'new' album in their concerts -  The Rickfors Hollies doing the Clarke sung 'Distant Light' songs being an exception - tho' they seemed to ignore songs from their OWN new album 'Romany' - but in general you might never know The Hollies even had a 'new' album out

That bootleg of the Rickfors lineup located a couple of years back features the band doing Touch, Words Don't Come Easy and the title track from the Romany album. I was actually quite impressed they did that many!

[JamesT]

I don't know if they ever did those singles live. I can still remember hearing Carl Wayne sing The Baby, together with the electric guitar/sitar from Tony and being blown away by it. The time was right. Imagine Carl singing Down River? Wow!

[stuball]

I think The Hollies and Epic Records were rarely on the same page when it came to touring and record promotion, primarily regarding their single releases.

Case in point: in early December of '77, I caught a Hollies concert. Now the local radio station involved in promoting the show, had spent the week leading up to the performance playing a Hollies hit every hour on the hour, and in particular playing 'Writing On The Wall', the group's current single, every few hours round the clock. But 'Writing On The Wall' was nowhere to be found in The Hollies setlist that evening. But they did play 'Amnesty', or at least a snippet of 'Amnesty', as part of a 4- song medley(Sorry Suzanne, On A Carousel, Look Through Any Window and Amnesty, as I recall). Problem was, no one present in the audience that night had ever heard 'Amnesty' before, it never having been released over here.

Whether Epic never bothered to inform The Hollies that WOTW was their new 45 over here, or whether The Hollies couldn't be bothered to work it into their set, I'll never know. Whatever the case may be, it's hardly surprising that their American success was very hit and miss.

[cameron]

If you look right back to day one, the Hollies were very inconsistent with their hits and albums. The first two albums excepted, where they *were* basically the Hollies live set.

By 1966, their setlist for Sweden was:
1. I Can't Let Go
2. You Don't Know Like I Know
3. A Taste Of Honey
4. Stewball
5. The Times They Are A Changin'
6. Too Much Monkey Business
7. Stop! Stop! Stop!

Two recent hits, one recent album track. I guess 'Stewball' was a hit in Sweden in 1966. But the other tracks mostly never featured on an album!
By 1967, they returned to Sweden in September, in full psychedelia mode. Oddly, the setlist doesn't tally with their visual appearance - yet they've JUST recorded King Midas In Reverse and head straight back into the studio when they get home to record "Try It", "Everything Is Sunshine", "Wishyouawish", "Postcard" and salvage "Step Inside" from the Evolution sessions. Their setlist in Sweden was:
1. The Games We Play
2. Stop Right There
3. Carrie Anne
4. On A Carousel
5. Very Last Day
6. Bus Stop
7. Stewball
8. A Taste Of Honey
echoing the sentiments above, another odd setlist. So few tracks from Evolution when there were so many obvious ones.

By 1968, you're reading about the Hollies wanting fans to stop screaming. The press is filled with reports of an "unusual" 40 minute long set - which was pretty much twice what 'teenyboppers' were used to in those days. However, the only thing to surface is the Lewisham Odeon concert (officially):
1. Stop! Stop! Stop!
2. Look Through Any Window
3. The Times They Are A Changin'
4. On A Carousel
5. King Midas In Reverse
6. Butterfly
7. Jennifer Eccles
8. Carrie Anne

Just ONE song from their current LP. Unless EMI couldn't get copyright on other tracks for the budget Clarke Hicks & Nash Years set (or Bobby and Tony vetted the performances) presumably because of their random nature (Puff The Magic Dragon is rumoured to feature!) then we have to assume that this was really the set. The hits were presumably (reluctantly) included for the sake of the recording to make the resulting LP sell - their version of Look Through Any Window feels very forced. Still a blistering set, even by other artists' standards in 1968 - but not the 40 minute marvel that was filling the press at the time.

[moorlock2003]

From a musical standpoint, the band did not "blow it" with Rickfors. The live recordings from "In concert" are proof of that. The Hollies sound fabulous; rocking, fresh, and dynamic.

[cameron]

I've always thought the same, the Rickfors era was the last great days of the Hollies before they scaled things back and invited Pete Wingfield in to play that god awful synthesiser. Even looking at that incredible Swiss TV concert that was kindly uploaded to YT a few weeks back, Bernie was still playing piano. I think that semi-acoustic Hollies worked REALLY well. Alan Parsons remarked how he'd never met a band who could balance an acoustic guitar with an electric guitar as well as the Hollies. Their live concerts at the time reflected this with scaled back, re-worked versions of their songs and rockier, more energetic versions of the hits. That's why I love hearing their live recordings so much.

Rickfors was an accomplished guitarist in his own right. He also played keyboards and harmonica. Many of the guitar parts that you hear on 'Romany' are actually played by him as well as Tony including that marvellous guitar 'duel' on 'Touch'. He may have not been the front man that they required, but musically he really added to their sound. I think there was far too much hesitance to push the Rickfors era Hollies, and even today, Bobby and Tony seem a bit dismissive of it and never delve into it.

Back to the point of this thread though...
I heard the Sylvester approaching Clarke story too. Seems plausible. Allan as absolutely NOT happy about leaving the Hollies and this was well documented in the press at the time. I read that they sent Terry in to "test the water" but I didn't know about the ultimatum from K-Tel or EMI or whomever wanted the Hollies to re-record their early hits. It seems to me that 'Live Hits' must have been a compromise in this respect. Many Polydor issued compilations included 'He Ain't Heavy, He's My Brother', 'Carrie Anne' and 'Too Young To Be Married' from Live Hits instead of the original studio recordings, which were exclusively distributed through EMI. However, Polydor did let EMI use 'The Air That I Breathe' on '20 Golden Greats', perhaps because they were struggling as a record label in the late 70's and any extra income was appreciated? Who knows. I very much doubt that the Hollies would have sold themselves short by re-recording their career - they were a professional group earning good money from a very well negotiated record deal. They didn't need the money unlike the other groups. If you think about it, the other groups mentioned who did re-record their songs for contractual reasons did it so that they could earn money themselves (due to their original record deal not giving them many royalties, which was more often than not the case) or because they had dwindling finances as they didn't write their own songs, so weren't earning songwriting royalties on the records, which is really where the money is. The Hollies were fortunate in this case, so perhaps didn't feel that they needed to sell themselves short and point their career firmly on a downward spiral into cabaret and package tours.

Bands mostly re-recorded old hits as a new recording warranted new copyright, so they could, for the first time in their career, own their own music. It also meant that record companies could release these re-recordings much cheaper than using the original recordings. So it was a win-win for everyone apart from the fans! I've never heard any re-recording that sounded better than the original!

[Deleted]

Perhaps the results wouldn't have been quite as horrific (or drastically different) as some imagine? One of the more interesting albums of (mostly) re-cuts imo is The Searchers' 1972 'Second Take'. The results are largely similar to the originals but with crisper production - only the songs which originally featured Tony Jackson on lead vocals such as 'Sugar and Spice' and 'Sweets For My Sweet' inevitably sound quite different.



Incidentally, it was quite common for artists to re-cut an entire album of old hits when signing to a new label in the 60s. Jerry Lee Lewis, Chuck Berry and Little Richard did exactly that, though interestingly NONE included any material under 5 years old, an apparent clause at the time.

[JamesT]

Aug 28, 2020 15:39:46 GMT peterc said:

Perhaps the results wouldn't have been quite as horrific (or drastically different) as some imagine? One of the more interesting albums of (mostly) re-cuts imo is The Searchers' 1972 'Second Take'. The results are largely similar to the originals but with crisper production - only the songs which originally featured Tony Jackson on lead vocals such as 'Sugar and Spice' and 'Sweets For My Sweet' inevitably sound quite different.



Incidentally, it was quite common for artists to re-cut an entire album of old hits when signing to a new label in the 60s. Jerry Lee Lewis, Chuck Berry and Little Richard did exactly that, though interestingly NONE included any material under 5 years old, an apparent clause at the time.

Yes, really do like 'Second Take'...not bad at all.

[baz]

Aug 28, 2020 15:39:46 GMT peterc said:

Perhaps the results wouldn't have been quite as horrific (or drastically different) as some imagine? One of the more interesting albums of (mostly) re-cuts imo is The Searchers' 1972 'Second Take'. The results are largely similar to the originals but with crisper production - only the songs which originally featured Tony Jackson on lead vocals such as 'Sugar and Spice' and 'Sweets For My Sweet' inevitably sound quite different.



Incidentally, it was quite common for artists to re-cut an entire album of old hits when signing to a new label in the 60s. Jerry Lee Lewis, Chuck Berry and Little Richard did exactly that, though interestingly NONE included any material under 5 years old, an apparent clause at the time.

Remakes in 1973 I'm sure would have been interesting and pre-dating the unfortunate introduction of Pete Wingfield and his wretched synthesiser would have had a decent sound about it. I forgot about the rock and rollers... yes, that's caused a fair amount of confusion on compilations and how many times did Gerry Marsden re-record his hits?

Thanks for reminding us of the stratospheric wonder that was Billy Adamson's afro hairdo! I bet Bobby feels relieved he never donned an afro type wig!

[Deleted]

Mike Pender's Searchers also recut the hits circa 1988, and they're mostly excellent too ('Goodbye My Love' may well be THE version).