Live at Lewisham Odeon, 24th May, 1968

[cameron]

The highlight of perhaps the last decade (okay, exaggeration maybe, but Christmas came early for us in 2011!) was getting the much talked about 1968 Lewisham Odeon gig tagged onto the end of the 'Clarke Hicks & Nash Years' boxset. As we know, this was recorded for possible release as a live album, when it was emerging that the Hollies were struggling to get together a new LP in 1968. It sounds to me that the inferior stereo mix used is a slight reduction on a vintage 1968 two-track mix, as the vocals appear in the right channel and the instruments in the left. Of course we expect that they wouldn't have remixed this concert from the multi-track tapes for the budget boxset release, but it's a given that a mix would have been made in 1968. 

I've said from day one that the eight tracks shown, with virtually no pause for audience patter in between, was not enough to sustain a full-length LP and there must be some bits that have been held back. We've long discussed what those tracks may be (most likely covers that they were unable to afford copyright on for the budget boxset in 2011) but no definite tracklist/setlist has ever come to light for that concert. We know that on that tour, they were including songs like 'Puff The Magic Dragon', 'Dear Eloise' and 'Dang Me'. 

Today, I was listening to Disc Six of 'Long Road Home', which features 'The Times They Are A Changin'' from that 1968 concert, in mono, which first appeared on 'Rarities' in 1988. However, I've only just noticed today when comparing the 'Rarities' mix to the one featured on 'Long Road Home', the 'Rarities' version fades at the end of the track neatly on the audience applause, but the 'Long Road Home' version just includes Graham saying "everybody clap, that's right!" with a drum roll from Bobby as it fades. This does not feature on the 2011 stereo mix. So this seems to be further evidence that the 2011 release has been edited down, perhaps quite significantly. We know that the Hollies seem to prefer this, as 'Live Hits: We've Got The Tunes' was so heavily edited to remove audience patter that some of the songs fade out! 

Either way, just another titbit of useless information which will no doubt spark some discussion here about one of my favourite Hollies recordings. 

[knut]

Nicely spotted, Cameron! Good to have you back in business too!

[baz]

I do know for a fact from a respectable source that that show was recorded as a 2 track recording so sadly the mix we got is pretty much as "stereo" as is possible as panned further outwards would be like listening to some of those 1964-1966 stereo mixes. EMI's mobile unit was still 2 track at that point, shortly to be upgraded to 4 track. Scaffold and Paul Jones supported The Hollies on this tour and the entire show was recorded and still sits in the Abbey Road archive - all were EMI acts and all working with Mike Vickers in some form or other. Would be nice if the entire show could be released but, rather unlikely.

[cameron]

Jul 8, 2020 21:33:14 GMT baz said:

I do know for a fact from a respectable source that that show was recorded as a 2 track recording so sadly the mix we got is pretty much as "stereo" as is possible as panned further outwards would be like listening to some of those 1964-1966 stereo mixes. EMI's mobile unit was still 2 track at that point, shortly to be upgraded to 4 track. Scaffold and Paul Jones supported The Hollies on this tour and the entire show was recorded and still sits in the Abbey Road archive - all were EMI acts and all working with Mike Vickers in some form or other. Would be nice if the entire show could be released but, rather unlikely.

That's a shame if it was a 2-track recording straight from the stage. I assumed they'd have a four-track field recorder by 1968, though I guess they wouldn't have an 8-track at Abbey Road for a good few more months. It seems a bit mind-blowing that they'd still be happy to issue a lop-sided stereo mix by mid-1968! Apparently it was the done thing to have two machines recording in relay so that they could keep replenishing the tape, which would only run for 30-40 minutes at 15ips at best. The whole show would have been around three hours from start to finish. 

I would have thought that there would be interest in the whole show as the Scaffold are still popular and have had a fair bit invested in their back catalogue. Paul Jones hasn't so much, but he does still have a high profile (I'm not sure if he still does his Radio 2 blues show) and of course the Hollies are always in the public consciousness somewhere. 

The other thing that I find strange is that the press about this tour at the time had Graham Nash quoted as saying that their live set was now up to at least 45 minutes, if not an hour, but there's never been a complete setlist from this tour to my knowledge that backs up Graham's claims. Early 1968 set lists that survive do seem to be only ten songs at best. The only other setlist from around the time of this tour is as follows, two months later in Sweden: 

1) Stop! Stop! Stop!
2) The Times They Are A-Changin'
3) On a Carousel
4) Very Last Day
5)Dang Me
6) Do the Best You Can
7) Butterfly
8) A Taste of Honey
9) Look Through Any Window
10) Jennifer Eccles

The only setlist from 1968 that seems to really be 45 minutes long is the complete Croatian concert from August 1968: 
1) Stop! Stop! Stop!
2) The Times They Are A Changin'
3) Stewball
4) On a Carousel
5) Dang Me
6) Very Last Day
7) Do the Best You Can
8) A Taste of Honey
9) Jennifer Eccles
10) Carrie Anne
11) Bus Stop
12) Kisses Sweeter Than Wine

[cameron]

Also, an unconfirmed but strongly suspected setlist from Japan a couple of months before the recorded concert at Lewisham also suggests less than ten songs, which tallies up with their surviving 1966 and 1967 set lists:

1) Stop! Stop! Stop!
2) Look Through Any Window
3) The Times They Are A Changin'
4) Dear Eloise
5) Very Last Day (the 1965 arrangement, not the acoustic arrangement that they moved onto later on in 1968)
6) Puff The Magic Dragon
7) Jennifer Eccles
8) Carrie Anne

[baz]

Jul 8, 2020 22:09:14 GMT cameron said:

I would have thought that there would be interest in the whole show as the Scaffold are still popular and have had a fair bit invested in their back catalogue. Paul Jones hasn't so much, but he does still have a high profile (I'm not sure if he still does his Radio 2 blues show) and of course the Hollies are always in the public consciousness somewhere. 

The other thing that I find strange is that the press about this tour at the time had Graham Nash quoted as saying that their live set was now up to at least 45 minutes, if not an hour, but there's never been a complete setlist from this tour to my knowledge that backs up Graham's claims. Early 1968 set lists that survive do seem to be only ten songs at best.

Can't remember where I read it but at the time when the set was released, the songs that were edited out were dismissed as being "some R+B numbers" which suggested to me they were still playing some older earlier numbers but until we ever get the whole set or access to the data, we'll never know for sure what was performed that night or whether whoever said that was being truthful as I would think it unlikely and peculiar they'd play such numbers in 1968. Andrew Sandoval's excellent book "The Monkees Day by Day" has an entry about this Hollies gig as Micky Dolenz and Bobbie Gentry were in the audience to see the show... and the Bobbie Gentry TV appearance came after this. Some sources say that was in August and one I've seen states May 30th, a week after this show.

Scaffold and Paul Jones... hmmm. I like both of them but neither have aged too well. Scaffold's humour was very much of the time and their set would have been a mix of songs and comedy routines - there is a live album they did that year recorded at the Queen Elizabeth Hall which has a very weird extreme split stereo mix with the member's voices split hard panned across the channels which takes some getting used to. Paul Jones as fine a singer as he was and probably still is, is a more acquired taste as his solo career after leaving Manfred Mann covered a lot of ground musically but a little of his voice went a long way and I find it awkward trying to sit through any of his EMI albums in one sitting. (I did revisit the "Privilege" movie recently - very interesting seen now in this current climate!) Still, I'd definitely welcome the opportunity to hear the whole show as a document of the event and tour.

A release of the complete show with all acts would work well as something like a Rhino Handmade limited edition set but I doubt Warners would ever entertain such an idea, let alone Tony and Bobby.

[cameron]

An interesting addition to your last point: has a 1960s package tour concert ever been released in full as a single package? I know the Rolling Stones’ ‘Get Yer Ya-Ya’s Out’ was reissued with the full concert + two support acts (one being Ike and Tina Turner), but I don’t know about any of the British package tours.

It’s funny you say about “some R&B covers”, ‘Too Much Monkey Business’ survived in the Hollies’ live set as late as 1971! I expect that because the Hollies knew that they were recording the set for release as an album, they’d have bulked out the set list so that they had more to choose from. On the Setlist site, a concert in late 1967 in Buffalo NY lists 14 tracks on their live show! Oddly, including a cover of ‘Alice’s Restaurant Massacre’, which I can’t imagine them doing at all! Then again, ‘Like A Rolling Stone’ was in their early 1967 live set...

Aren’t the Scaffold and Paul Jones still under Parlophone/Warners too? This could actually be quite an exciting package, using the rather lavish 1968 tour programme for the packaging and all three acts had photo sessions at the same time for the tour programme, the Hollies’ photo re-appears on the back of ‘Hollies’ Greatest’ in August 1968.

[cameron]

PS, I think that some of the Hollies’ performances may have been left out in 2011 because Bobby and Tony weren’t happy with them. Just one year before the concert was released, they were both interviewed for Shindig! Magazine, and Bobby specifically references the then unreleased concert recording saying that it was “awful” and “our performance was very flat”. So it was a huge shock to get the concert just a year after they were quoted saying that! I think it’s a fabulous show, and if that’s them at their worst, how great were they at their best?!

[Deleted]

Jul 9, 2020 9:28:59 GMT cameron said:

An interesting addition to your last point: has a 1960s package tour concert ever been released in full as a single package? 

How about this one, featuring John Leyton, Don Spencer, Mike Berry and Mike Sarne (probably doesn't include every song performed that night):



I agree though, The Hollies/Scaffold/Paul Jones set could be viable commercially (I'd certainly buy it!). 

[cameron]

Another titbit of information about this Hollies concert - Paul McCartney was in the audience and this specific concert and it was allegedly the very last time that he and Jane Asher were photographed/seen in public together. Of course, Paul was most likely going to see his brother, Mike McGear, of the Scaffold, but he was well-known to be a fan of the Hollies as well.


beatlephotoblog.com/photos/2010/08/127.jpg

[baz]

Aug 18, 2020 8:21:50 GMT cameron said:

Another titbit of information about this Hollies concert - Paul McCartney was in the audience and this specific concert and it was allegedly the very last time that he and Jane Asher were photographed/seen in public together. Of course, Paul was most likely going to see his brother, Mike McGear, of the Scaffold, but he was well-known to be a fan of the Hollies as well.


beatlephotoblog.com/photos/2010/08/127.jpg

Certainly a few stars out that night! Strange then that The Hollies didn't feel they rose to the occasion and cast the recording into the vault for a few decades.

[cameron]

I recall the interview the year before the concert was finally released; Bobby said that the group on the whole felt that their performance was "flat" and not very exciting. Being ruthlessly objective, they do take a while to loosen up. 'Stop! Stop! Stop!' is taken at a rather sedate pace compared to the rip-roaring version done in Japan two months earlier and 'Look Through Any Window' seems to slow right down as soon as the band come in after Tony's intro, again, not a patch on the version from Japan. But they pick up the pace from 'Times They Are A Changin' onwards. I think the real problem is the orchestral section, who are quiet in the mix and the horns frequently go out of tune. 'Butterfly' is a bit of a mess for this reason and Graham goes really flat on the last long note, most likely because the orchestra just isn't loud enough for him to hear on the night. But it is what it is: the earliest officially released document of the Hollies live in concert and the only concert appearance with Graham Nash that's been officially released. It's wonderful to listen to and it's a crime that it sat in the vaults for so long. I feel like it could have been or should be put out as a sole release. It would be amazing if they put it out for Record Store Day or something, perhaps in mono if the original wonky stereo mix can't be fixed for the reasons outlined above. Or they should dig out the complete 1966 Stockholm concert because they're really on top form on that recording.

[Deleted]

I do wonder if, by the time they came to dealing with the tapes, they knew that Graham was quitting the band? Obviously, it wouldn't make sense to release / promote a live album that was taped with an old line-up.

Another terrific live recording is Gerry and The Pacemakers live in California. Recorded at the height of their fame in October 1964, only 4 songs were released at the time on the 'Gerry in California' EP. All 10 songs were finally issued (in newly mixed stereo) on a 2008 boxset, but as with The Hollies' Lewisham concert, it deserves to be heard as a stand-alone release.

[cameron]

I'm not sure, from what we've been told, Graham didn't officially hand in his notice until around September when they confronted him about missing out on promoting 'Listen To Me' on Top Of The Pops. The concert was recorded in May and up until 1968, the Hollies had been averaging a new LP every six months or so. I think Bobby's claims about them being unsatisfied with their performance were the main reason behind it not being released. Perhaps with the passing of 50 years, they finally recognised it for the historic recording that it is. I'm surprised that EMI let them get away with not issuing two LPs and three singles in 1968, as per their usual contract, but then again, 'Hollies Greatest' was such a huge seller, that EMI probably didn't mind.

[ahkyahnan]

Just heard this live recording for the first time this morning on the Japanese SHM edition of “Hollies Sing Dylan”. Really enjoyed it.

I was surprised to hear an orchestra and was wondering, did they use one at every show during this tour or was this occasion unique as they were recording? If they had one at most shows I’m guessing they were locally hired in each town?

Very nice Board here, just discovered it today while Googling about this recording.

Mark

[Tony Wilkinson]

Mar 31, 2021 18:16:55 GMT ahkyahnan said:

Just heard this live recording for the first time this morning on the Japanese SHM edition of “Hollies Sing Dylan”. Really enjoyed it.

I was surprised to hear an orchestra and was wondering, did they use one at every show during this tour or was this occasion unique as they were recording? If they had one at most shows I’m guessing they were locally hired in each town?

Very nice Board here, just discovered it today while Googling about this recording.

Mark

Welcome Mark, here is a good place to be.. !!

[johnt]

Mar 31, 2021 18:16:55 GMT ahkyahnan said:

Just heard this live recording for the first time this morning on the Japanese SHM edition of “Hollies Sing Dylan”. Really enjoyed it.

I was surprised to hear an orchestra and was wondering, did they use one at every show during this tour or was this occasion unique as they were recording? If they had one at most shows I’m guessing they were locally hired in each town?

Very nice Board here, just discovered it today while Googling about this recording.

Mark

I remember they used a small orchestra for some of the songs on their 1974 UK tour. I saw them at Sheffield City Hall and recall that Allan encouraged the audience to give the orchestra a clap as they took their places on stage.

For the rest of the 70s tours, it was Pete Wingfield and his synthesiser!

[painterly]

Arriving late to this topic. I just came across a tweet in answer to a post before Christmas.
I was at the Lewisham gig and I seem to remember Mike Vickers Orchestra on the bill-- backing Paul Jones def; and probably The Hollies.A long time ago and I was more than likely drunk or half stoned on the night. Paul Jones did some acrobatics and The Scaffold were super composed.
My partner at the time worked as an Usherette in the Odeon Cinema and she told me that after the gig Paul McCartney, Micky Dolenz and (David Frost?) stood around chatting and when they finished Micky Dolenz handed back a watch and wallet that he'd lifted.

[Tony Wilkinson]

Jan 15, 2023 11:45:54 GMT painterly said:

Arriving late to this topic. I just came across a tweet in answer to a post before Christmas.
I was at the Lewisham gig and I seem to remember Mike Vickers Orchestra on the bill-- backing Paul Jones def; and probably The Hollies.A long time ago and I was more than likely drunk or half stoned on the night. Paul Jones did some acrobatics and The Scaffold were super composed.
My partner at the time worked as an Usherette in the Odeon Cinema and she told me that after the gig Paul McCartney, Micky Dolenz and (David Frost?) stood around chatting and when they finished Micky Dolenz handed back a watch and wallet that he'd lifted.

 David Frost was a political commentator/chat show host around at that time, probably connected to Roger McGough of Scaffold fame and a relation of Paul McCartney ...