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Post by cameron on Feb 29, 2020 22:06:47 GMT
Of course this has been much talked about on this forum after a piece from Ron Furmanek himself appeared in the Hollies' 2019 tour book discussing an upcoming archival trawl for a rarities project. There's been a few threads about it, so I thought I'd make a new one to give updates in one place.
Over on the Steve Hoffman forum, some 'fans' have been quite hostile about the project seemingly not coming into fruition, and out of the blue, Ron Furmanek himself got in touch with me so that I could put the record straight on the forum on his behalf.
The update today (29th February 2020) is that the project is pushing ahead and they're trying to aim for a summer release in 2020. He's said before how the official sessionography has many discrepancies, inaccuracies and omissions, and there's more there than what we've previously thought.
In the mean time, everyone involved is very tight-lipped about the project. I think Ron got burned with the '30th Anniversary Collection' when EMI in America just took his concept for an album reissue series with rarities and remixes and cobbled together the collection, cooked the mastering and failed to include his remixes of 'Carrie Anne' and 'King Midas In Reverse', something Ron stressed in that article in the tour book was that this was NOT his doing or the Hollies' doing (as previously thought by some) but a decision the record company took. So rather than this develop into a whole Rob Caiger VS The Small Faces Autumn Stone situation with years of promised tracklists, artwork and session tapes, Ron is wisely keeping tight-lipped about the contents of the Hollies set, while pushing to get it out as he envisages. I think he needs to know that the fans support him, and he thanks us for being patient. This WILL be worth the wait!
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Post by thejanitor on Feb 29, 2020 23:05:46 GMT
Bobby's book, Allan considering live shows and collabing with Graham, and now this - 2020 is looking to be an exceptionally great year for us fans! 😊
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Post by thejanitor on Jul 27, 2020 16:33:38 GMT
Any news on the status of this project?
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Post by Mevrouw Bee on Jul 27, 2020 17:35:36 GMT
Bobby's book, Allan considering live shows and collabing with Graham, and now this - 2020 is looking to be an exceptionally great year for us fans! 😊 This comment didn't age well! (sorry)
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Post by cameron on Jul 27, 2020 17:37:51 GMT
Lol it didn't, did it?
Not heard anything on the grapevine, I don't expect anything to progress this year with all that's been going on.
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Post by thejanitor on Jul 27, 2020 18:55:02 GMT
Too true! 😂
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fjfp
New Member
Come to the top of the mountain with me...
Posts: 8
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Post by fjfp on Sept 11, 2020 8:32:04 GMT
Thought no harm in giving this another little bump, in case *anything* at all had surfaced.
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Post by thejanitor on Aug 27, 2021 12:48:34 GMT
Surely, we can expect something about this soon? Saying this now with the long-awaited release of The Beach Boys' Feel Flows boxset, plus the announcement of a deluxe Let It Be on the way...
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Post by Stranger on Aug 27, 2021 18:10:56 GMT
Beach Boys set, CSNY Deja Vu, Beatles Let It Be, George Harrison, 2 Cat Stevens anniversary sets, 2 from Al Stewart... everyone is putting them out at the moment...
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Post by baz on Aug 27, 2021 18:21:35 GMT
Beach Boys set, CSNY Deja Vu, Beatles Let It Be, George Harrison, 2 Cat Stevens anniversary sets, 2 from Al Stewart... everyone is putting them out at the moment... You know something must be seriously wrong when we're getting far more unreleased Beatles material in recent years than ANYTHING from The Hollies! I suspect next year we'll get the obligatory 60th anniversary greatest hits set with one new recording on it and that'll be it. I also would have thought if any project was being worked on, Terry would have mentioned something about it on his twitter page.
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Post by becca67 on Aug 27, 2021 19:32:31 GMT
I hope there can be some new 'releases from the vault'... even multiple abandoned takes of Marrakesh Express would be welcomed by me. There have been some tremendous releases of vintage Everly brothers material and it just seems right that Hollies fans get to do some catching up!
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Post by The Dude on Aug 28, 2021 21:25:14 GMT
Beach Boys set, CSNY Deja Vu, Beatles Let It Be, George Harrison, 2 Cat Stevens anniversary sets, 2 from Al Stewart... everyone is putting them out at the moment... ...just in time for the Christmas rush... which comes earlier and earlier each year... I predict a time where the Christmas rush for next year starts on Boxing Day...
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Post by Gralto on Aug 31, 2021 14:54:47 GMT
Hi All, Ron is still super keen to get this project completed and it's only due to all the COVID restrictions and disruption that this has not remained on track as was planned for significant 2021 progress. Ron is very confident this release WILL happen but has been unable to get over to the UK for obvious reasons. Hopefully we will have a further update in the coming months.
When these outtakes tracks finally see official release, you will ask yourself "how was this never previously released?" But yes, it has been many years since this set was first talked about, and it remains a source of some frustration to all involved that circumstances have given rise to delay after delay. It will get there one day! cheers Simon
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Post by baz on Aug 31, 2021 22:58:23 GMT
When these outtakes tracks finally see official release, you will ask yourself "how was this never previously released?" How I've been thinking and feeling working my way through the new Beach Boys set of 1969-1971 material - a staggering amount of excellent material that was left in the can!
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Post by Malc on Sept 1, 2021 5:39:19 GMT
When these outtakes tracks finally see official release, you will ask yourself "how was this never previously released?" How I've been thinking and feeling working my way through the new Beach Boys set of 1969-1971 material - a staggering amount of excellent material that was left in the can! Ah ! But other than the exceptional quality of Dennis's material (I simply love WIBNTLA) is any of it in any way superior the material they actually issued back then ? Sunflower and Surfs Up are both perfection already in my eyes and ears so I can't see any room for the material they left in the vaults. it's more a case of too much quality... but they still put out the absolute best they had. That said, if the proposed Hollies set comes anywhere as close as the Feel Flows set...
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Post by Stranger on Sept 1, 2021 12:36:19 GMT
Hi All, Ron is still super keen to get this project completed and it's only due to all the COVID restrictions and disruption that this has not remained on track as was planned for significant 2021 progress. Ron is very confident this release WILL happen but has been unable to get over to the UK for obvious reasons. Hopefully we will have a further update in the coming months. When these outtakes tracks finally see official release, you will ask yourself "how was this never previously released?" But yes, it has been many years since this set was first talked about, and it remains a source of some frustration to all involved that circumstances have given rise to delay after delay. It will get there one day! cheers Simon Thanks for the update Simon. That Covid issue makes sense. Is the rarities set the only thing in the horizon or is Ron's desire to revisit the whole catalogue still a possibility?
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Post by thejanitor on Sept 1, 2021 13:25:57 GMT
I hope I'm not thinking too big for this set, but it would be great (and the main highlight) if it includes the material to properly flesh out a track list for the 'lost' 1968 album. Sure, Cameron and a few others have made decent attempts at compiling it with the songs already out there and I've tried a few times myself to do this, but I just don't feel like it's possible to get a fully cohesive result with just those.
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Post by baz on Sept 1, 2021 16:49:41 GMT
I hope I'm not thinking too big for this set, but it would be great (and the main highlight) if it includes the material to properly flesh out a track list for the 'lost' 1968 album. Sure, Cameron and a few others have made decent attempts at compiling it with the songs already out there and I've tried a few times myself to do this, but I just don't feel like it's possible to get a fully cohesive result with just those. Is there actually anything left from 1968 that we don't have? All I can think of/remember is the original take of "Survival Of The Fittest". I too have tried a few times to assemble some sort of 1968 album but "Jennifer Eccles", "Blowing In The Wind", and "A Taste Of Honey" stick out too badly and I don't think "Listen To Me" fits in either. It's sadly a project that hadn't advanced far enough for something credible to work. A real shame as there could have been a great album but one can't change history.
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Post by Mevrouw Bee on Sept 2, 2021 13:55:00 GMT
I hope I'm not thinking too big for this set, but it would be great (and the main highlight) if it includes the material to properly flesh out a track list for the 'lost' 1968 album. Sure, Cameron and a few others have made decent attempts at compiling it with the songs already out there and I've tried a few times myself to do this, but I just don't feel like it's possible to get a fully cohesive result with just those. Is there actually anything left from 1968 that we don't have? All I can think of/remember is the original take of "Survival Of The Fittest". I too have tried a few times to assemble some sort of 1968 album but "Jennifer Eccles", "Blowing In The Wind", and "A Taste Of Honey" stick out too badly and I don't think "Listen To Me" fits in either. It's sadly a project that hadn't advanced far enough for something credible to work. A real shame as there could have been a great album but one can't change history. And, odds are, the UK album wouldn't necessarily put the singles on it in the first place if an official release were even a glint in their eyes...
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Post by cameron on Sept 2, 2021 17:57:14 GMT
It's hard to think what direction the 1968 album was heading in... the Hollies were extremely vague to the press about it at the time, though by April/May seemed to say that it was more or less in the can, but something happened and there was the rush to record the live show at Lewisham Odeon on the 24th May. Remember they'd turned two albums every six months up until that point more or less, so they knew that they had to deliver the goods. Perhaps 'Jennifer Eccles' upset the balance of things, throwing off the confidence they had in their more mature music when JE was such a big hit. I also think that because The Hollies "leased back" to EMI, there might not have been the same contractural pressure as there was with other artists, but I could be wrong. Of course, even the live concert was abandoned, though it was mixed and a master prepared, but the Hollies vetoed it upon hearing the final mix. I fairly recently learned that EMI only had a TWO TRACK field recorder by this point in 1968! So the mix as you hear it is more or less how it was on the night. EMI put together 'Hollies Greatest' in August 1968 to fill the gap. With six weeks at No.1 in the UK charts, I think EMI were very happy with that following 'Butterfly' not even charting. Although there wasn't anything NEW, the Hollies were very much still at the forefront throughout 1968.
The poppier tunes come along in early 1968, then they move onto the more complex tunes like 'Tomorrow When It Comes' and 'Relax' in mid-1968, before moving onto the big band cabaret style tunes like 'Blowin' In The Wind' and 'A Taste of Honey' in the late summer of 1968, the anomaly being 'Listen To Me', which I think would have been released to more or less coincide with the album, much like 'Carrie Anne' and 'King Midas In Reverse' had done previously. Obviously Graham was off, so they knew not to bother. By December 1968, they're back in the studio laying down the tracks for 'Hollies Sing Dylan'.
In terms of what we know was completed in 1968: 1. Open Up Your Eyes 2. Wings 3. Jennifer Eccles 4. Tomorrow When It Comes 5. Relax 6. You Were A Pretty Little Girl (Unissued) 7. Like Every Time Before 8. Do The Best You Can 9. Man With No Expression 10. Survival of the Fittest (Unissued) 11. Blowin' In The Wind 12. A Taste of Honey 13. Listen To Me
There's actually enough there to fill an album, if you minus 'Jennifer Eccles' from the equation as the lead single. It wasn't unknown to put an album track as a B-side.
Also, here's what was rumoured/confirmed to have been recorded in 1968: 1. Marrakesh Express (We know this is an abandoned backing track) 2. Very Last Day (an acoustic re-working of the 1965 arrangement as seen in their 1968 concerts) 3. Teach Your Children (Graham produced a demo of this in 1968 - not in the studio) 4. Lady of the Island (Graham also produced a demo of this in 1968 - not in the studio)
That's not to say that there isn't more. It's been stated by Ron Furmanek that the officially released sessionography has a few omissions/errors, and there's a few bits and pieces that we don't know about at all that turned up on the session tapes that weren't properly catalogued. I think the current sessionography stems from the one done in the 1980s for Record Collector, which was expanded in 2003 for the 'Long Road Home' boxset. But with so many people having a hand in labelling the tapes and writing in the session logs, there's always plenty of room for error. Until someone actually physically listens through hours and hours of tape, there's no way to be absolutely certain what's there. We also know that there's more of the 1968 concert that's yet to see the light of day. Further evidenced by the mono mix of 'The Times They Are A Changin' on the 'Long Road Home' boxset having a few seconds of audience patter in the fade out that's missing on the 2011 release.
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Post by baz on Sept 2, 2021 21:37:53 GMT
Looking at the recording dates we've had all these years then adding context, it's interesting to note that 'Wings', 'Open Up Your Eyes' and 'Jennifer Eccles' were recorded first. Is it a given fact that 'Wings was recorded and always intended for the infamous Wildlife album? I point this out because The Beatles' contribution was recorded a month afterwards. Anyway, the 'Eccles' single was released and then off they went on that fateful tour of the States. The single was obviously done to order to keep product coming and I think it extremely unlikely they would have used those songs for a new album.
On their return from the States, came 'Relax', 'Tomorrow When It Comes' and 'Marrakesh Express'. Definitely more 'progressive' and more fitting as a follow up from 'Butterfly' but 'Marrakesh' was swiftly abandoned. Bear in mind, Nash had met Crosby and Stills and was enamoured with them and America to the degree he was thinking there may be a more interesting future for him. Fingers get pointed at Allan for Nash's newest songs being dismissed and Allan grumbled in the press that Nash's newest songs were "slow" and "dreary". It's at this point - April/May - that the whole situation collapsed. Nash's new songs were being rejected, Allan and Tony didn't seem to have anything and there was no way they were gonna get a new album ready for the summer so the live album was attempted. When they rejected that, the only feasible option was the "Hollies Greatest" album which would buy time and besides, the time was right for such a compilation.
They were back in the studio in June for 'Do The Best You Can' and I get the feeling they might had been looking at that as a new single A side, same for 'Like Every Time Before' the following month. I get the impression they recorded 'A Man With No Expression' to keep Graham happy as a few days later came the fateful session yielding 'A Taste Of Honey' and 'Blowing In The Wind', a very MOR affair which Graham hated and I think was the probable final straw especially when Tony suggested the Dylan project. I don't have a recording date for 'Survival Of The Fittest' though we do know that was the final Gralto collaboration done at Bobby's urging for old times' sake so Graham's last major recording was 'Listen To Me' intended as a single. 1968 ended the run of three singles a year as after this in 1969 and 1970 there would be just 2 singles and 1971, just the one! (We're talking about the UK!) It's also worth remembering that when Graham flew to America to start work with Crosby and Stills in September 1968, in his absence The Hollies spent time at Abbey Road recording the backing tracks for the Dylan project in the knowledge Graham was not gonna sing on them so they would be ready and primed for when Terry came in.
It seems to me then, that any kind of a 1968 studio album was stillborn and abandoned after a mere trio of tracks. Yes, it is possible there may be some more songs unaccounted for waiting to be rediscovered but I'm doubtful. So, we had the opening trio of songs destined for a single and a charity album. A trio of tracks which were all rejected after which came the scrapped live album swiftly replaced by the hits album and what was recorded in the studio was basically single based material with the exception of 'Survival' and 'Expression' and then recording the backing tracks for the Dylan album.
Indeed we didn't get the whole Lewisham performance and I do recall reading a handful of tracks were left off, generally older "R+B numbers" from what I remember. It would be nice to get the whole gig as a possible limited edition release containing the Scaffold and Paul Jones performances as well for the entire show was recorded, all were EMI acts and had Mike Vickers as the link between them. Insane then that even by that time, EMI still only had a 2 track remote unit so the recording was all vocals on one track and everything else on the other leaving very little options when it comes to mixing!
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Post by cameron on Sept 6, 2021 17:29:20 GMT
'Survival Of The Fittest' was recorded in the same session as 'Man With No Expression' on 12th - 16th August 1968. Interestingly, the same sessions also produced 'Blowin In The Wind' and 'A Taste of Honey'. The former was released as a single in Sweden and found its way out in other places like Germany. The final session was on 28th August 1968 to record 'Listen To Me' with Nicky Hopkins on piano. The backing tracks for the 'Sing Dylan' album weren't put down until early November in a mammoth three day session that saw eleven tracks laid down.
I think the 'Sing Dylan' album was Tony's idea. Graham apparently wasn't against it, just apparently the way in which the Hollies wanted to do it. 'Man With No Expression' was recorded I think to appease Graham, though it would be ultimately unissued. He took it with him to CSN, who also didn't release it at the time. Funnily enough, the CSN version was finally released in 1991 and the Hollies' version in 1993. I know I'm biased, but the Hollies' version is vastly superior! The Hollies must have very thoroughly rehearsed the 'Sing Dylan' album and really fleshed out the arrangements for them to be able to record eleven tracks for it in just three days! I suspect that took place in either early September before 'Listen To Me' was released on the 27th, or in mid-October once the PR and enthusiasm for 'Listen To Me' had died down. In fact, I think Graham was in America in early October, as he crucially missed the opportunity to promote the song on TOTP, apparently this was the last straw for the Hollies.
It's never been clear the date for which Graham officially told the group that he wasn't coming back. Graham remembers telling Ron Richards and not the others, but the others remember a meeting taking place in which an ultimatum was offered. Knowing that the same thing happened with Allan in 1971, we can assume that the latter is the true version of what happened. This must have been mid-October when Graham was back from America. Graham said he was in London with Crosby and Stills while the Hollies were at Abbey Road, so that also figures. I expect 'Sing Dylan' morphed into an attempt to prove to Graham that the Hollies could thrive without him. Its the only Hollies studio album that was so widely promoted (with a colour BBC special and the TV special in Finland to name just a couple), and I think this is how it came to reach No.2 on the charts in the UK, their highest charting studio album of their whole career. It also sold steadily but consistently in America well into the 1970s.
Something has been said before about this 1968 live show being issued as a standalone package. In fact, another recording by the Scaffold from the same tour but a different night was issued fairly recently. I think it would make an interesting document from a time in history when package tours were the norm.
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Post by baz on Sept 6, 2021 20:53:11 GMT
It's never been clear the date for which Graham officially told the group that he wasn't coming back. Graham remembers telling Ron Richards and not the others, but the others remember a meeting taking place in which an ultimatum was offered. Knowing that the same thing happened with Allan in 1971, we can assume that the latter is the true version of what happened. This must have been mid-October when Graham was back from America. Graham said he was in London with Crosby and Stills while the Hollies were at Abbey Road, so that also figures. I expect 'Sing Dylan' morphed into an attempt to prove to Graham that the Hollies could thrive without him. Its the only Hollies studio album that was so widely promoted (with a colour BBC special and the TV special in Finland to name just a couple), and I think this is how it came to reach No.2 on the charts in the UK, their highest charting studio album of their whole career. It also sold steadily but consistently in America well into the 1970s. Something has been said before about this 1968 live show being issued as a standalone package. In fact, another recording by the Scaffold from the same tour but a different night was issued fairly recently. I think it would make an interesting document from a time in history when package tours were the norm. I think Graham announced his quitting to the band in August 1968 or September at the very latest. It was that month (I believe) that the Hollies management told the press that Graham would be recording a solo album and so would Bernie Calvert. Perhaps 'Man With No Expression' was intended for Graham's album and done as an appeasement but I think the announcement was made because speculation was growing that Graham was unhappy and bought some time as there was an internal crisis within the band and as history has proved, The Hollies acted very discreetly when things weren't right in the group. When Graham went to America killing the promotion for 'Listen To Me', it was clear his mind had been made up and that he was leaving. He would have had to give at least three months notice of his intent to quit. Interesting about this Scaffold live recording you mention. Could you direct us where to find it? Not heard anything about it. Perhaps its a reissue of the 1968 'Scaffold' album which was a live recording done at the Queen Elizabeth Hall with Mike Vickers conducting and Dave Mason guesting which as far as I know has never been issued on CD.
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Post by Stranger on Dec 23, 2021 16:19:14 GMT
I wonder if this is going to be held now and released as a "60th Anniversary" thing?
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Post by JamesT on Dec 23, 2021 19:10:41 GMT
I wonder if this is going to be held now and released as a "60th Anniversary" thing? Yes, the 60th anniversary of it first being mentioned 🤔🤣
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