Our Hollies collections after passing.

[dirtyfaz]

This is an interesting question and I am curious as to how the really serious collectors of Hollies music have arranged for their collection after they have passed.

I am reaching an older age and with my younger brother passing in the last six months (I did inherit more than a 1000 CDs from him "not Hollies") it has got me wondering how to deal with my collection now or what will happen to it after I pass. My family have virtually no interest in music let alone The Hollies music and my collection. I have been collection Hollies recordings since the middle 60s but most certainly by the mid 70s I was more serious and started collecting 45s, EPs. LPs and CDs (upon their arrival early 80s). My collection is not anything like say for example Knut's and several others that are also on The Hollies facebook group. Most certainly since say about 2000 I virtually stopped collecting vinyl and just concentrated on CDs. I have now gotten to the stage that unless the new release is really interesting with new stuff on it I don't purchase it any longer. Who needs 50+ versions of almost all the Hollies hits. Not I.

As I mentioned on a post in the RIP Kenny Lynch topic I have started to and almost finished moving all my physical material onto the digital medium in a FLAC file that is lossless. That allows me easy access to the music.

All my 45s and EPs have been stored in the garage for upwards of 20 years protected as best as I can but they are still subjected to the Heat and Cold. I am guessing it would be great to be able to move them on before I go or just about certainly they would be lost to the world.

I loved the idea of having a physical item that I could hold and admire/look at the artwork. Now I virtually don't touch any of it with my digital network within the house giving me easy access to basically any item that I have in the collection.

I am interested in others thoughts.

Chris

[knut]

This is a very important subject. I wonder if the Museum of Manchester would have an interest, if so I would be prepared to donate my collection. Or is it a specialised museum for music in the UK? Here in Norway a friend of mine died some years ago. He had a huge collection of Norwegian records. His widow sold all the Norwegian records after him to the National Archive of Norway for a very good price. All the rest she gradually sells on record fairs.

[Deleted]

I don't really care too much what happens to my collection after I'm gone, though perhaps I should arrange for my music video and DVD archives to go somewhere safe for future generations to enjoy.

What is more important to me is what I do while I'm here. Shortly after I published my first book in 2018, I suffered a heart attack, requiring emergency, life-saving, surgery. I'm doing fine, but it did make me aware of my mortality, so much so that I refuse to waste time on things like social media now, instead writing and researching more books (my 4th should be ready around March 2020), and visiting all those places that I've been meaning to go to but never got round to.

Happy New Year everyone! Enjoy it.

[moorlock2003]

I've been lucky in the past decade in that I've gone to a lot of 60s dance clubs, dressing the part (mod style), dancing and DJ-ing and have met a lot of hardcore music aficionados. My friend Nelly is in my will to receive my music collection. When I informed her of my decision to pass my collection on to her, she replied "It would be an honor". I dearly love Nel and am glad I found someone who will appreciate my years of collecting, which really escalated in the 2010s. It's a new decade and time to concentrate on other things but I can't stop the interest. I just have to stop the buying.

[anthony]

Hi all, good topic, compared to some here my collecting would be very small, never one to collect rare records I'm more a visual collector, things like Press photos, old 60's mags with Hollies articles, tour posters my pride and joy being a 1976 Aussie tour poster, plenty of signed photos and a large collecting of video clips. . People I know have no interest, my wife jokingly says she will bury it all along with me when I go. I know a guy here in Melbourne who could be keen on the photos. At times I think at (soon to be 62) why do I bother still looking on ebay for rare photos, then I think well its all part of living and enjoying life while you can. Sadly I think in general most people are not interested in the Hollies well the same could be said for all things from that era. sadly mine could end up in a mini skip.

[baz]

I don't have much of a collection anymore as over the years I've downsized several times. I do have two boxes containing the rare 7 inchers... used to have around 2000 vinyl albums but now down to just 80, again mostly the more collectable ones. I do have a large archive, with boxes full of stuff which survived a massive purge I had in 2017 before I relocated and that's my life's work - tapes, photos, videos, documents, letters etc and I very rarely ever touch that... I spent thousands of hours digitising the whole lot... don't get me started on digitising cassette tapes - I had 700 hours of unique material on that medium and the nightmares I had dealing with those! Fact is obvious that with us all going digital over the last 20 years there is no denying it is convenient and saves much space. I have a hard drive containing about a years worth of music (if listened to back to back nonstop 24/7) and I only listen to a tiny percentage of it but love the fact I have so much music ready and waiting for when that moment strikes to enjoy... when Kenny Lynch died, I listened to what I had of his work and the thread here reminded me of which Hollies songs he had a hand in writing... so was great to be able to check all that stuff out by a few clicks of a mouse instead of rummaging through boxes of vinyl... really loved listening to "Promised Land" again, one of the highlights of "Distant Light" for me.

What is becoming noticeable as well as hinted by some above is the market for what rarities we have is growing smaller. I have a friend in New York who has a massive collection of vinyl, books and unique memorabilia - letters, photos and autographs from many showbiz legends who have long since departed and he's finding it extremely difficult to sell what he has on eBay. The interest in any such things has declined so much he's resentful that such precious items are now failing to hit any decent price which makes him sometimes wonder what the point was in collecting and keeping all this stuff over his life as his wife has often said it'll end up in the trash when he's gone.

I'm not too bothered about what happens to my vinyl when I'm gone but would like somebody to inherit my personal archive containing my life's works... tons of writings and unique social documentation in there. I also write a journal, approx half a million words a year and I have joked that'll end up becoming a bestseller when I'm gone, but hey... would be nice if I had some recognition or enjoy some fruits of finance whilst I'm still here to enjoy it!

[Deleted]

Jan 1, 2020 23:29:34 GMT baz said:

I also write a journal, approx half a million words a year and I have joked that'll end up becoming a bestseller when I'm gone, but hey... would be nice if I had some recognition or enjoy some fruits of finance whilst I'm still here to enjoy it!

Edit it, and publish it! Seriously. It's easier than you think, and won't even cost you anything if you go down the Amazon POD (print on demand) route as I have done. You won't regret it, and it is obvious to all here that you're very knowledgeable and a good writer.  If I can write (and SELL!) books, then certainly you can.

[calvertbesseralseric]

Jan 1, 2020 23:29:34 GMT baz said:

I don't have much of a collection anymore as over the years I've downsized several times. I do have two boxes containing the rare 7 inchers... used to have around 2000 vinyl albums but now down to just 80, again mostly the more collectable ones. I do have a large archive, with boxes full of stuff which survived a massive purge I had in 2017 before I relocated and that's my life's work - tapes, photos, videos, documents, letters etc and I very rarely ever touch that... I spent thousands of hours digitising the whole lot... don't get me started on digitising cassette tapes - I had 700 hours of unique material on that medium and the nightmares I had dealing with those! Fact is obvious that with us all going digital over the last 20 years there is no denying it is convenient and saves much space. I have a hard drive containing about a years worth of music (if listened to back to back nonstop 24/7) and I only listen to a tiny percentage of it but love the fact I have so much music ready and waiting for when that moment strikes to enjoy... when Kenny Lynch died, I listened to what I had of his work and the thread here reminded me of which Hollies songs he had a hand in writing... so was great to be able to check all that stuff out by a few clicks of a mouse instead of rummaging through boxes of vinyl... really loved listening to "Promised Land" again, one of the highlights of "Distant Light" for me.

What is becoming noticeable as well as hinted by some above is the market for what rarities we have is growing smaller. I have a friend in New York who has a massive collection of vinyl, books and unique memorabilia - letters, photos and autographs from many showbiz legends who have long since departed and he's finding it extremely difficult to sell what he has on eBay. The interest in any such things has declined so much he's resentful that such precious items are now failing to hit any decent price which makes him sometimes wonder what the point was in collecting and keeping all this stuff over his life as his wife has often said it'll end up in the trash when he's gone.

I'm not too bothered about what happens to my vinyl when I'm gone but would like somebody to inherit my personal archive containing my life's works... tons of writings and unique social documentation in there. I also write a journal, approx half a million words a year and I have joked that'll end up becoming a bestseller when I'm gone, but hey... would be nice if I had some recognition or enjoy some fruits of finance whilst I'm still here to enjoy it!

You don't have to even publish it, just get it out here in any form. A blog, a WordPress page, whatever. I'd love to hear what you've got to offer.

[Deleted]

At the risk of sounding pedantic, a blog (etc) is still publishing. But yes, get it out there, though if you want to make money then publish it in book form.

[cameron]

I think you have to be careful what you save/preserve as to not hinder your family with it when you’re gone. Ask yourself - does it all really matter? Coming from a family of hoarders, they’ve amassed collections of things over their lifetimes that are just absolutely worthless and also a chore to get rid of. A great Aunt had a collection of 500+ “collectible” fine china plates, which she bought under the illusion that they were worth something. The most valuable thing of the lot was her original 1960s Midwinter set that she still used! I think most of it ended up being used at the local school’s crockery smash at the summer fete!

When it comes to music, yes I buy nice records in the best condition possible, but I’m also not afraid to play them. It’s this “I’m preserving it” mentality that I don’t understand. Preserving it for what? When you’re dead? I rarely play CDs and only stream music if I’m in the car. I don’t care what anyone says, the whole experience of playing vinyl on a decent Hi-Fi cannot be beaten. So I don’t understand why people spend so much time digitising and archiving things. Part of the experience is handling that large tangible album artwork for a start. I look after all my records, clean them, store them properly and handle them carefully and I haven’t noticed a deterioration in any of them. Although I keep all the sleeves in plastic, I’m not afraid to take them out and handle them when I play each LP.

And I genuinely do play all my LPs. I think once you get so many that you start to forget what you’ve got and not play a lot of it, then it’s time to slim it all down.

The only thing I have done for when I’m dead and gone is to grab a piece of paper and write on it what an LP is (pressing, rarity, variant etc... and a story of it if there’s one attached) and slide it into the sleeve, so whoever deals with it has an easier job. I also tuck things of interest in like magazine articles, newspaper clippings, photos from the concerts that I’ve personally attended etc... if I have things like that which are appropriate to an LP.

I think you have to question why you collect anything. Unless you have a museum, none of it is to preserve it. It’s all purely and simply for your enjoyment. So play those records, listen to those tapes and ENJOY what you’ve collected while you still can. It’s the same with my classic cars, I drive all of them. None of them are “garage queens”. They’re all really well looked after, but they’re also used and loved. And the memories of actually going on adventures with them are worth more than the satisfaction of wrapping one up in bubble wrap in the garage for all eternity.

[cameron]

I’ll also add, that as a younger Hollies fan, no one is more hard work than the older fans who have amassed collections of rarities who don’t want to share them. I can count on one hand how many Hollies collectors have freely shared things with me privately without the expectation of a “trade” in return. So actually, a lot of those tapes of concerts, radio recordings and TV footage way we’ll just get tossed in a skip when you’re gone if it’s not passed on to the next generation - of which there are a sizeable amount of us. It never fails to impress me how the Hollies continue to attract a younger fan base.

The biggest shame of all is that the Hollies themselves aren’t interested in handling their own archives like so many other bands are. Look how Andy Scott of the Sweet puts every scrap of available footage of them in their heyday up on YouTube, often with an introduction from himself explaining the background of it and the story of the lost clip. Just this last month they’ve found two previously lost clips, including the first ever UK performance of “Blockbuster”. Likewise you’ve got Manfred Mann putting out their best quality bootlegs officially, Bob Dylan releasing all that’s in his vaults while he’s still around to oversee it and benefit financially from it... why aren’t the Hollies getting in on it?

[thejanitor]

Add to those the great string of archive releases The Beach Boys have been gradually putting out over the last few years. I'd love to see those kind of sets being made for The Hollies, even if it's just one big set spanning 20-30 years. I'm sure there's plenty of alternate takes, isolated/backing tracks, live recordings we have no idea of and even those legendary unreleased songs like "Survival of The Fittest" with Graham or " Ashes To Ashes " in the vaults that could be released in a similar format. Sure, some might not have held up to be the greatest of quality, but of course we fans would still be grateful to have them see the light of day. 😊 I just wish they/EMI would understand that there is  the interest for these!

[baz]

Jan 3, 2020 15:10:08 GMT thejanitor said:

Add to those the great string of archive releases The Beach Boys have been gradually putting out over the last few years. I'd love to see those kind of sets being made for The Hollies, even if it's just one big set spanning 20-30 years. I'm sure there's plenty of alternate takes, isolated/backing tracks, live recordings we have no idea of and even those legendary unreleased songs like "Survival of The Fittest" with Graham or " Ashes To Ashes " in the vaults that could be released in a similar format. Sure, some might not have held up to be the greatest of quality, but of course we fans would still be grateful to have them see the light of day. 😊 I just wish they/EMI would understand that there is  the interest for these!

The Hollies have missed the boat BIG time on whats been going on the last few years as The Beach Boys, Bob Dylan and even The Beatles have been plundering their archives for a specific reason - not because they WANT to give the fans all this unheard music, but to claim and extend the copyrights on all that material for another 50 years. Then you get the dreaded ABKCO who gave Rolling Stones fans the finger at new year when they suddenly uploaded over 130 tracks from 1969 on YouTube with two catches - 1, they deliberately instilled a high pitched tone on all the material, then removed it all inside 24 hours before most could even hear the stuff. Technically ABKCO can claim by doing that by the deadline they've staked the claim to extend the copyrights on that material.

Therefore TECHNICALLY any unreleased tracks that's still sitting in the vaults from before 1970 is now out of copyright. If anybody got hold of copies of that material they can release it. So, if The Hollies are still planning to release more unreleased material from their archive, they ought to stop dithering and get putting it out as soon as possible as technically the copyrights will have expired on all the stuff from the 60's we've not heard. On New Years Eve, King Crimson suddenly unleashed every studio tape they have from 1969 as downloads pending release on a boxset next year which features all the takes and between song chatter and they admitted "They have been made available by download in 2019 to satisfy recent changes to copyright laws: All recordings must be released within the fiftieth year of their recording in order to continue to enjoy copyright protection."

I hasten to add the above is the simplest way I can explain this situation... the whole issue of copyrights have been getting rather complex and messy and I understand the laws in question are ones based in the EU. That's the real reason why we've been seeing all these rarities from various acts the last few years... it's more about legalities than the music and satisfying the fans - as ABKCO have damningly proved.

[cameron]

The Hollies don’t have to worry about extended copyrights because they OWN their tapes and no one else can get their hands on them because they’re under lock and key. So from that point of view, they’re safe.

What they don’t have copyright on any more are the pre-1969 mixes that are out there already that haven’t been re-released on CD - ie, some mono mixes, some foreign market stereo remixes etc... and also any pre-1969 live recordings other than what the BBC own and the Lewisham Odeon set. There’s nothing stopping any of us releasing the remaining Stockholm 1966 concert and profiting from it in the eyes of the law, for example.

That’s how the label Rhythm & Blues who did the “Shake With The Hollies” RSD Special got away with it. Allegedly, the Hollies tried to legally challenge it and stop it, but they couldn’t in the end. I’ve come to understand that “Hollies Ltd” has put a stop to quite a few things in the past, for lack of wanting to invest in them and/or conflicts in their exclusive rights deal with EMI (or whoever they are now)

[Deleted]

Regarding formats:

I believe that the CD was a fantastic invention! Being born in the early '60s, vinyl (and tape) was pretty much all I knew for the first quarter of century of my life, but, apart from looking at the sleeves and artwork, I have no real nostalgia for the size, inconvenience and wear & tear of vinyl. At the other end of the collecting spectrum, I, like Baz and many others, have more music as digital files than I could ever hope to listen to. But, I find the discipline of having a maximum of 80 minutes per disc encourages me to listen to albums or compilations complete, the way they were meant to be heard, plus, I like having a physical product to put on my shelves.

In 2019, I probably bought more CDs than at any other time in my life. Initially, some of these were for a writing project, but it quickly went beyond that. Now, I also find myself grabbing cheap "best of" CDs of artists I otherwise don't have anything of (apart from videos), for example Freddie & The Dreamers and Larry Williams. All this has given me a renewed love of listening to music.

[dirtyfaz]

To each their own when it comes to listening to music via whatever format they choose. I went past playing vinyl in the 80s. That is not to say I don't play vinyl anymore. I have several newer Hollies releases in that format. One of the purposes of digitalising my music besides making listening easier to select, is that it will enable me to move on before I go many items that folks may be interested in. Value doesn't come into it for me and I most certainly inform my family that the music is worth virtually nothing to on sell after I go.

Being in Australia none of the sound archives would be interested in the Hollies music so not possible to donate to them. The other issue with moving say Hollies material on is the limited number of Hollies music buyers here.

Live concert tapes and other memorabilia I gave away many years ago so the home they went to was appreciated.

There are many reason people don't pass on the rarer stuff they have. I have found over the years that being asked not to pass on the material is a very good reason not to share. Passing it on destroys the trust.

Most of the old school Hollies collectors traded things. That was how it was done back in the days of snail mail. That system worked extremely well but over time you got to find out the ones that I guess you could say were selfish and you didn't trade with them. If I was after something say from Germany I would trade off an Australian item. That way both parties were happy. The internet changed that and greed started to get in the way. Now it is easy to find out what something may have sold for but then again the purchaser may have been the only person in the world after that item and was prepared to pay an inflated price. Everyone then expects that to be the going rate and then has trouble or can't sell the item.

Enough of the rant.

The purpose of the topic was just to get a feel from folks what may happen to their Hollies collection or the their collection in general.

[cameron]

Fundamentally what will happen is that families of collectors will seek to sell off their estate. The house will be the main concern, the contents in it, less so. Most likely, a record retailer will be invited in and they’ll purchase the whole collection for a pittance, like they do, because the family will just need it out of the way by this point to sell the house. I see this happen regularly with a local record retailer to me. He recently bought a 1000+ LP collection from an estate, entirely consisting of mint final upgrade 1960s LPs for just £500. There must have been £10,000+ worth of records there. The mark up by record retailers compared to what they buy them at is incredible, because their overheads are so high and sales usually so slow.

The other issue is that there’s not enough younger collectors around to fill the void once the older ones pass away, so the market will become saturated and the records worth less. Bootlegs will most likely get thrown away and lost forever as both Discogs and eBay prevent the sale of them.

If the family of a collector do take the time to sell on the collection themselves, they’ll at least recoup some of its true worth, but again, is it all going to be worth as much as what we paid for it if there’s not enough of a new generation wanting to buy it? The Hollies have to be the worst of all the main 1960s groups for not creating themselves a legacy like the Beatles, Rolling Stones, Kinks et al have through reissues and media presence.

Even I can count the number of new Hollies releases I’ve bought in the last five years on one hand as the constant stream of compilations and reissues of the same thing without anything new leave me disinterested. My Hollies collection is complete now and I just enjoy listening to it as and when I feel like it. Because I have all the LPs, I feel even more fussy about adding to that collection unless I’m managing to upgrade what I have already.

[dirtyfaz]

I happen to believe that what you say about family selling onto a retail retailer is pretty correct. That has been happening forever. Not just record I must say. This is the purpose behind the digitilasation of my collection. When completed I can make a sensible valid decision to hold onto or let go. I can even make the decision to sell for whatever I may choose or just pass on to another collector.

Most importantly I relalize that after my passing it doesn't matter to me what does occur. I won't be around to know.

During my life I have had a great amount of pleasure from music. Fortunately or maybe unfortunately my music passion is greater that the Hollies. Over the years since CDs I have parted ways with more that 1000 LP. I have always been an album listener and still do that. If I play an artist I listen the an entire LP.

Like you Cam my Hollies collection is as complete as I choose to make it.I do ocasionly purchase a Hollies item but it has to be special to me.

[Gralto]

Thanks for raising this issue DF - I think about this frequently. Unless my 6 year old develops a passion for 60s music like he has for dinosaurs at present, I'm not sure I want to burden him with his old man's shed full of curiosities. My other half would not have a clue what to do with it - we've discussed this briefly in the past. So, in my mind, it's fully up to me to make sure - if it's that important...and I think it is - that I have everything listed in an inventory and then put into my Will. That will take lots of work but the onus is on me to have this squared away to not transfer the hassle onto others.

One thing is for sure - my collection is worth miles less than what I have paid for it! But my interest is not in buying every vinyl variant - it's all about the information for my ongoing research/project. For example, I've recently spent stupid money on a rare 12 minute interview from 1969 that maybe nobody else would have had a sniff at for even half what I paid. The price of my thirst for detail sadly!

Jan 3, 2020 23:28:33 GMT dirtyfaz said:

There are many reasons people don't pass on the rarer stuff they have. I have found over the years that being asked not to pass on the material is a very good reason not to share. Passing it on destroys the trust.

This is very true. Now that these have leaked out from elsewhere, I can reveal that I have had both the Clarke I Wasn't Born Yesterday and I'm Betting My Life On You promo video clips for many years. However, these have never been traded or even mentioned to others because the person who gave them to me - who I believed had the only known copy (though this is now revealed to be untrue) was adamant they should remain private between us two. So, respecting this person's wishes, this condition was met. (I also had to give up some of my precious rarities to get them.) Pleasingly the clips now on YT of these two are in far better quality than mine. Ditto the Sylvester solo clips from Supersonic (UK TV) which have been with me for years and hidden for different reasons. There are indeed many entirely valid reasons for not sharing that have nothing to do with a lack of altruism.

Speaking of which, if you haven't already, check out the recent 'Merry Xmas' thread wth the EO video discovery exclusive, with the promise of more to come - stand by on that one.

It's certainly an interesting topic that arouses great debate in many households (not the least my own!!)
cheers
Simon

PS - and the million dollar question - what happens to the ultimate Hollies collection, that possessed by Mr Elliott, he of the only child, childless personal circumstance? I can only assume he has had the conversation with his (much younger) wife about this. At least he has put his vast archive to frequent good use within the tour programs he's supervised for the last 30 years and now his forthcoming book in April.

[Deleted]

I'm sure the same question goes through the minds of many older performers, not just fans. For example, both Graham Nash and Frank Allen recently disposed of much of their vast guitar collections.

[Stranger]

Jan 3, 2020 12:28:09 GMT cameron said:

I’ll also add, that as a younger Hollies fan, no one is more hard work than the older fans who have amassed collections of rarities who don’t want to share them. I can count on one hand how many Hollies collectors have freely shared things with me privately without the expectation of a “trade” in return. So actually, a lot of those tapes of concerts, radio recordings and TV footage way we’ll just get tossed in a skip when you’re gone if it’s not passed on to the next generation - of which there are a sizeable amount of us. It never fails to impress me how the Hollies continue to attract a younger fan base.

That's a very good point Cameron, and one of the frustrations of being a "younger" Hollies fan. You have 5 people hoarding stuff only 15 people on the planet care about. And when they pass the kids or partners will just dump the worthless old cassette tapes or hard drive.

You'd also wonder about the crude "home recordings" Bobby or Tony might have of live gigs or demos, do these just get lost to mists of time.... ?

[dirtyfaz]

Hoarding isn't a good word to describe this. Like Simon says there are many valid reasons why people don't pass on stuff. Re the Crude "home recordings" etc might is the operative word in that statement. Mot known about so from my point of view it doesn't exist.

[Stranger]

Jan 4, 2020 21:28:17 GMT dirtyfaz said:

Re the Crude "home recordings" etc might is the operative word in that statement. Mot known about so from my point of view it doesn't exist.

Things can exist that you dont know about. The band's home recording of the Singapore show, for example, which has been referenced in interviews.

[dirtyfaz]

Yeah but we know about Singapore. Things we don't know are assumptions or wishful thinking not actually fact.

[cameron]

Bobby said he used his mum’s reel to reel tape recorder to record some Hollies shows way back in 1964 when he first joined.

It’s an interesting conversation in general. For starters, I propose this: I’m going to make a effort to put every Hollies related variant/release that’s not available officially or easily on CD/Download up on my HolliesRareandUnreleased YouTube channel. I’ve been starting with the Kenny Lynch related Hollies tracks. But this will eventually include rare mono mixes, rare stereo mixes, USA mixes and accidental releases (like that issue of ‘Poison Ivy’ with the bum note ending) that have all been released officially, but aren’t currently available. At least that way, some of this stuff is not only preserved but made easily available for fans.