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Post by cameron on Aug 12, 2019 23:17:38 GMT
I find it funny how the BBC get so involved, monetary speaking, considering that if it wasn't for people breaking the law and capturing all this audio at the time, none of it would survive today. NOTHING was purposely saved by the BBC, all of it prior to the mid-1970s survives by sheer fluke that the tapes weren't wiped or BBC camera men who frequently took copies for their professional portfolios have returned them to the BBC. Or even TV stations overseas saving tapes sent by the BBC, hence why a lot of 1970s era stuff survives in B+W when the BBC shot it in colour. 'Hollies In Concert' (1969) was filmed in colour, and its believed to have been saved from an Australian TV archive, when it was sold there back in the day and broadcast in black and white.
The BBC actually pressed exactly 99 copies (to do with copyright law) of the 'Top Of The Pops' discs, which are the source for most of this BBC material. These discs were sold overseas and lasted right through to the early 1980s as far as I'm aware, though they were a regular feature from the mid-1960s though to around 1972/3. They cull live tracks from all sorts of BBC shows and Brian Matthew overdubbed his commentary onto them in most cases. Changes to the musician's union around 1970 meant that now artists could over-dub studio tracks to save time, and nearly all post-1970 BBC radio tracks from the Hollies are all slightly different mixes of the versions recorded in the studio, believed to have been specially prepared by the Hollies at Abbey Road and sent in to the BBC, all in an effort to save time. Prior to that, every performance had to be absolutely live. Around 1967, they start involving small orchestras and even overdubbing parts 'live' in the BBC studios.
There's over 70 'live' performances by the Hollies at the BBC, and around 60 of those survive. Their BBC set 'Radio Fun' barely scratched the surface really and didn't improve the audio quality either. The slimmed down budget 'At The BBC' set released last year actually improved the sound through mastering, though it features less tracks. For some reason, the Hollies BBC tracks aren't widely bootlegged and what does appear is usually the same songs from the same poor sources.
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Post by eric on Aug 13, 2019 3:44:14 GMT
'Hollies In Concert' (1969) was filmed in colour, and its believed to have been saved from an Australian TV archive, when it was sold there back in the day and broadcast in black and white. I watched the "Hollies In Concert" when it was televised in Australia. Cameron is correct in saying that it was broadcast in black and white as colour television only started here in 1975, many years after its introduction in the UK (and USA).
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2019 12:27:45 GMT
There were occasional overdubs allowed, even as early as 1964 - 1965. The 1st and 2nd song below both feature double-tracked vocals, while the 3rd features a harmonica overdub:
Not sure if ALL acts would've been allowed to overdub though (maybe the two biggest bands in the country got special treatment!).
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Post by baz on Sept 24, 2019 23:12:03 GMT
Not sure if ALL acts would've been allowed to overdub though (maybe the two biggest bands in the country got special treatment!). Given how behind the times and archaic the BBC radio facilities were, it was probably for the best for all concerned that overdubbing was only used sparingly during the 60's as tales are almost legendary about the ancient equipment that was in use as the BBC and their upper echelons generally hoped the pop music fad would go away and vanish hence requests for better equipment and investment took a very long time to be fulfilled and even then, the BBC cut corners causing all manner of problems for the artistes. I believe they began recording sessions in stereo in 1970 and were using a basic 2 track recorder so when acts wanted to overdub, it was a very complicated technical procedure so that was another reason why many simply resorted to remixing official studio recordings then doing a basic quickie vocal overdub. Another legendary story had David Bowie and the Spiders from Mars having to record one session in 1972 starting at 8am, hardly a time to be playing/recording that kind of material but the BBC were the BBC and Bowie would have been far from alone. Then look at what happened when the BBC finally caved in and allowed the "In Concert" series on Radio One... they insisted on having DJ's interrupt the flow by conducting links and interviews between tracks instead of letting the artistes just get on and play. What is also worth remembering was the severely restricted needletime so BBC radio were limited to spinning a certain amount of records per day so they would instead play specially recorded session versions of hits to get around that issue or worse, listeners would instead hear a cover of the song played by the likes of Joe Loss!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2019 10:48:26 GMT
I'm getting quite addicted to these BBC recordings, and I now own (or I'm expecting) official / semi-official CDs on the following artists:
The Hollies ('Radio Fun' only, though I may get the other one in due course) The Beatles (x2)
The Rolling Stones
Brian Poole and The Tremeloes
The Tremeloes
The Animals (original group)
The Animals (New Animals)
Manfred Mann (Paul Jones)
Manfred Mann (Mike D’Abo)
The Kinks
The Zombies
Dave Dee & Co.
The Fortunes
The Yardbirds
Gerry and The Pacemakers
The Shadows
The Small Faces
The Pretty Things
The Searchers
The Troggs
Johnny Kidd and The Pirates
Billy Fury
Dusty Springfield
Are there any I've missed?? Yes, I know there are CDs on pioneering "rock" acts like Jimi Hendrix, Cream and Fleetwood Mac, but I'm concentrating more on beat/pop groups for now.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2019 10:51:57 GMT
I just found out last week that Lulu has a new download only BBC album out, which might not be 'legit' but is now legal, and the sound quality is excellent. Where can I find this? It's not on Amazon as far as I can tell (I only really use Amazon and Discogs to buy my music!).
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Post by baz on Nov 19, 2019 11:56:42 GMT
Are there any I've missed?? Yes, I know there are CDs on pioneering "rock" acts like Jimi Hendrix, Cream and Fleetwood Mac, but I'm concentrating more on beat/pop groups for now.
Marmalade - www.discogs.com/The-Marmalade-BBC-Sessions/master/1127497I'm sure there are some more but that was the only one I could think of at this moment.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2019 12:23:20 GMT
Thanks Baz! A bit pricey, but I'll probably get it at some point.
Incidentally, on Friday I saw the current incarnation of Marmalade as part of a 'Sixties Gold' show, and they were very entertaining. Afterwards, I chatted to Sandy Newman, who signed my CD, then shook my hand firmly when I congratulated him on the show, as well as kissing my girlfriend's hand!
Also on the bill were Steve Ellis (excellent as always), The Merseybeats (still with Tony Crane and Billy Kingsley at the helm, they're one of the most authentic sounding 60s bands still around), Herman's Hermits (ok, though Barry Whitwam is still a great drummer), and The Mindbenders (not so great - Wayne Fontana was supposed to be there too but is ill in hospital).
I am trying to see as many of the 60s originals as I can while they're still performing, though it's getting more and more difficult. Next April I'm due to see Mike Pender, and on the bill with him are The Trems, The Swinging Blue Jeans, The Fortunes and The Dakotas... all without an original member between them! Disappointing, but also unnecessary, as Ray Ennis, Billy J. Kramer and Chip Hawkes (and friends) are all still around, and occasionally touring.
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Post by rokinrobinoflocksley on Nov 19, 2019 13:42:16 GMT
I just found out last week that Lulu has a new download only BBC album out, which might not be 'legit' but is now legal, and the sound quality is excellent. Where can I find this? It's not on Amazon as far as I can tell (I only really use Amazon and Discogs to buy my music!). I've got even better news, Peter. This download will be expanded and released as a 2-CD set on Dec 13, now covering 1965-69. You can pre-order now from Amazon UK (it will also soon appear on Amazon US and Canada as well). Link here:
A collection of live performances Joined by the Luvvers and Bean & Loopy s Lot Includes BBC radio broadcasts Digitally remastered for greatly enhanced sound quality Interviews, background liners and rare images DISC 1 LULU &THE LUVVERS 1964 4th December 1 Can t Hear You No More (with interview) 2 Bread and Butter 3 Shout 1965 2nd April 4 It s Gonna Work Out Fine 5 I ll Come Running (with interview) 6 Surprise 21st May 7 Mr Moonlight 8 Satisfied (with interview) 9 Can t Hear you No More 30th July 10 Leave a Little love (with interview) 11 Cry to Me 12 I Can t Stand It 24th September 13 Don t Play That Song 14 Try to Understand (with interview) 15 Heatwave 19th November 16 Tell Me Like It Is (with interview) 17 Tennessee Waltz DISC 2 LULU 1966 25th March 1 Uptight 2 Call Me (backed by Georgie Fame, with interview) 3 You ll Never Leave Him (backed by The Blue Flames) 28th October 4 What a Wonderful Feeling (with interview) 5 Uptight LULU (AND BEAN & LOOPY S LOT) 1967 20th January 6 I Do 7 Blowin In The Wind (with interview) 8 I Love My Dog LULU 26th May 9 Dreary Days and Night 10 The Boat That I Row (with interview) 11 A Little Bit Me, A Little Bit You 28th July 12 Let s Pretend (with interview) 13 To Sir With Love 14 The Boat That I Row 15th December 15 Love Loves To Love Love 16 Higher and Higher 1968 20th September 17 Shout , To Sir With Love (with interview) 1969 - 10th Janua
Here are 13 song samples from the download site:
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2019 13:51:32 GMT
Thanks for this, fantastic! I've just ordered it.
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Post by johnt on Nov 19, 2019 15:40:28 GMT
Are there any I've missed?? Yes, I know there are CDs on pioneering "rock" acts like Jimi Hendrix, Cream and Fleetwood Mac, but I'm concentrating more on beat/pop groups for now.
Nice collection there, Peter. I believe there are also Live At The BBC recordings of Marianne Faithful, Roy Orbison, Chris Farlowe, Moody Blues (1967-1970), Denny Laine 1967, Bobby Gentry and Everly Brothers (not sure of the year of recording).
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2019 18:32:00 GMT
Thank you John. I'm aware of some of them, will look out for the others.
Surprised there's no Cliff Richard BBC collection.
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Post by johnt on Nov 19, 2019 22:13:02 GMT
Yes, same here, Peter.
There's always Bruce Forsyth At The BBC!
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Post by anthony on Nov 19, 2019 22:40:53 GMT
Didn't get the second BBC live release as in many ways I was disappointed with the first in the fact that I would loved some of the banter, intros etc, the songs are brilliant but I wanted that little bit more.
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Post by baz on Nov 19, 2019 23:19:38 GMT
Surprised there's no Cliff Richard BBC collection. I suspect the chances of that ever happening are remote!
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Post by rokinrobinoflocksley on Dec 12, 2019 14:25:14 GMT
Also, there's apparently been a Spencer Davis Group set as well. "Mojo Rhythms & Midnight Blues Vol 1: Sessions 1965-68" on the RPM label. Can't confirm if these are BBC, but the back of the CD says they were recorded in live sessions for radio broadcast, owned by The Spencer Davis Group, the source being The Strange Things Are Happening Archive. Vol 2 is Shows 1965-68, live in concert stuff. Both released in 2000.
I'm guessing the 2001 release on Varese "Live Anthology 1965-68" is a comp of these 2 CDs...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2019 14:47:50 GMT
Not familiar with that one.
A CD I forgot to mention on my list above is The Who! An excellent set that I bought when it was first released, though I believe there is now also an extended semi-official set.
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Post by baz on Dec 12, 2019 17:54:15 GMT
Also, there's apparently been a Spencer Davis Group set as well. "Mojo Rhythms & Midnight Blues Vol 1: Sessions 1965-68" on the RPM label. Can't confirm if these are BBC, but the back of the CD says they were recorded in live sessions for radio broadcast, owned by The Spencer Davis Group, the source being The Strange Things Are Happening Archive. Vol 2 is Shows 1965-68, live in concert stuff. Both released in 2000. Now that you mentioned it, I do remember that CD though never bought it when it was around unfortunately. However the mention of RPM brings to mind a great CD they released in 1998 that was only available for a few months consisting of Radio One Club off-air recordings by Episode Six, the band that yielded Ian Gillan and Roger Glover. They were a great band plenty of pop and a bit of rock. Given they were home recordings made by a relative of the band the quality was rather good and it contained much DJ banter as well. Sadly I sold my copy... not easy to find now. I also think RPM - or another label connected to them - issued a "complete" set of recordings by The Artwoods a few years back which had their surviving BBC radio sessions from the mid 60's. So, a couple more there to track down if desired.
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Post by rokinrobinoflocksley on Jan 20, 2020 15:32:26 GMT
Also out there:
--The Bee Gees "Live on Air 1967-1968"
--Donovan "Live 1965-1969"
--The Mindbenders "Live on Air 1966-1968"
--The Move "Something More From"(not sure of BBC content, though claims to have radio shows + live stuff, I haven't got this yet)
--Scott Walker "Live on Air 1968-1969" (from his BBC TV show, all 8 episodes, though he's not a beat group...)
Plus there's an 11 page thread on Hoffman "Your Favorite BBC Sessions" that's got a lot more...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2020 15:40:28 GMT
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Post by baz on Jan 20, 2020 15:52:00 GMT
Didn't know about this one and surprised to see it doesn't include their 1963 appearance on "Pop Goes The Beatles" which has been kicking round for many years complete with an irreverent interview with Ray Ennis and Rodney Burke discussing chip "sarnies" and chip "butties"! I just wonder if we'll ever get to see any more vintage TV clips of the SBJ's in action as there's not many of them about from the 60's that appear to have survived. Even photos with Terry Sylvester are rather limited!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2020 16:19:19 GMT
Didn't know about this one and surprised to see it doesn't include their 1963 appearance on "Pop Goes The Beatles" which has been kicking round for many years complete with an irreverent interview with Ray Ennis and Rodney Burke discussing chip "sarnies" and chip "butties"! I just wonder if we'll ever get to see any more vintage TV clips of the SBJ's in action as there's not many of them about from the 60's that appear to have survived. Even photos with Terry Sylvester are rather limited! I'm wondering if 'So Much In Love' is even by The Swinging Blue Jeans? The song was written by Jagger-Richards and given to The Mighty Avengers, so could this just be a BBC broadcast by them?
Here's a great clip, despite it being dubbed:
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Post by baz on Jan 20, 2020 16:47:13 GMT
I'm wondering if 'So Much In Love' is even by The Swinging Blue Jeans? The song was written by Jagger-Richards and given to The Mighty Avengers, so could this just be a BBC broadcast by them? Funnily enough, I can actually imagine the SBJ's doing that song... can hear Ray Ennis's voice in my head singing it! BBC sessions did give acts the chance to do material they would never record officially so, a possibility... as is also what you might suspect, it being by The Mighty Avengers instead used by mistake and poor research.
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Post by madprofessorblyth on Jan 20, 2020 17:25:24 GMT
The Move "Something More From"(not sure of BBC content, though claims to have radio shows + live stuff, I haven't got this yet) I don't have it either yet, but I've heard everything on it - the label who put it out (Vogon, a label that seems to specialize in these radio/TV session releases through the legal loopholes) also has it out digitally under the alternate title of 'Birmingham Calling: The Lost Broadcasts". It's also identical to another release on vinyl in 2018 for RSD called 'In Europe '66-'67' on the label 1960s Records. The sound quality wavers a bit between different tracks but I can confirm none of the tracks are BBC except the first three - still officially unreleased in any capacity, the first three are the Move's first ever BBC radio session as a group (from October 24, 1966) which has a cracking cover of Neil Diamond's "Cherry Cherry" that's probably worth the price alone. They're also the three best sounding tracks on there too (from my experience). Tracks 4, 5 and 6 are all from their 'Beat Beat Beat' appearance (that's already been widely bootlegged and officially released) from March '67, I don't know where track 7 originates from but I have found research that confirms the recording date was September 21, 1967 for what it's worth. Tracks 8 through 13 are all from the (widely bootlegged) Stockholm radio concert from Konserthusset (broadcast in December '67). Hope this goes some length to help you figure out what's on here...! Still a little pricey for me in the US to pick it up but I hope to before it goes out of print (seems this label usually only makes 500 CD copies of each release) but any Move fan who wants more live material than the typical stuff we already have should definitely pick this up!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2020 18:01:27 GMT
I'm wondering if 'So Much In Love' is even by The Swinging Blue Jeans? The song was written by Jagger-Richards and given to The Mighty Avengers, so could this just be a BBC broadcast by them? Funnily enough, I can actually imagine the SBJ's doing that song... can hear Ray Ennis's voice in my head singing it! BBC sessions did give acts the chance to do material they would never record officially so, a possibility... as is also what you might suspect, it being by The Mighty Avengers instead used by mistake and poor research. You can hear a short clip of it via the Amazon link (doesn't sound like Ray to me).
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