|
Post by Stranger on Nov 6, 2018 13:21:02 GMT
If the album is all recorded the hard part is done. There are so many niche labels and distribution options now that he could easily get the album out... as long as he is doing it as a "hobby" project. Obviously if he thinks it's 1969 and he is a big star and insists on being released by a major label, then it won't come out...
He's still able to get himself on some radio shows, has some fans and could probably sell 1000 copies which would be a good result for a small label.
|
|
|
Post by distantlight on Nov 6, 2018 14:14:00 GMT
Totally agree with stranger - it's all a matter of perspective. If the album is at least decent enough and people who like the Hollies could like it, I'm 100 % sure that it's no problem to find a good small label that would make some CD copies and sell it to the existing fans. If he wants a "big" deal with advance payment it won't happen.
So if anyone has a direct contact and Allan is still searching for a label, I could easily ask if the label who releases the music of my bands would be interested. Just write me a personal message
|
|
|
Post by cameron on Nov 6, 2018 19:59:38 GMT
It's insane really, as 'Evolution' charted higher than the Kinks VGPS, Pretty Things' SF Sorrow, The Zombies' Odessey And Oracle' and 'The Who's 'Sell Out' to name just four now legendary albums that have received the 'deluxe' treatment. There was only 'Butterfly' which didn't chart, but it's now gained a cult following due to it's heavy psyche flavour. 'Hollies Sing Dylan' charted at number three, for goodness' sake! And remained in print by EMI for over ten years! So why don't the Hollies feel the need to keep pushing their back catalogue? Their albums generally sold better than a lot of their contemporaries that have since gone on to be remembered with rose tinted glasses. And I'm convinced that 'Distant Light' and 'Romany' have yet to see their day, I'd put them against anything AOR related that was around at the time.
As for Allan's album, perhaps the Hollies' famous lead singer emerging from a 20 year retirement will be a crowd puller, but then again, maybe not. The public generally want the original group, not fragments of it going solo.
|
|
|
Post by stuball on Nov 6, 2018 22:35:29 GMT
I think it must be very hard for a former star of Allan Clarke's stature to swallow his pride and admit to himself that his current position (re releasing his tapes) has reached such a nadir that he is no better off than a 20-year-old unknown kid peddling some tapes he put together in his mom's spare bedroom. I wouldn't be surprised that if he finds his name carries no clout and he can't score some sort of 'professional' deal, he may just sit on the tapes. That would be a real shame for us Hollies fans, but I could understand that reaction. I'm sure he still has his pride, and likely wouldn't trade his self-respect for a no-name deal.
|
|
|
Post by knut on Nov 7, 2018 11:05:55 GMT
I believe Ryko will be interested.
|
|
|
Post by gee on Nov 7, 2018 12:07:02 GMT
Re the lack of any 'Deluxe' Editions of classic Hollies albums - I think it's like them NOT doing the Ed Sullivan Show etc, the sad fact is The Hollies always seemed to be rather a 'on the cheap' thing in many key ways re band promotion
acts clearly NOT as successful DID do 'Ed Sullivan Show', while others did festivals, had TV specials in the UK and USA....and have a greater public attention span now
The Kinks actually had a few really 'down' periods as did The Bee Gees too where their success rate fell FAR below that of The Hollies
however those and others like The Small Faces, The Pretty Things etc who had nowhere near the hit singles or regular chart albums of The Hollies now enjoy far greater standing overall re many critics
Hence those bands get Deluxe Editions of old albums and lavish critical respect - even where originally they failed to chart !
even the much maligned but mega successful Moody Blues have just had a Deluxe treatment on 'In Search of The Lost Chord' as their old critics now have to shut up following their belated Hall of Fame induction
yet to be inducted Jethro Tull also get Deluxe editions of their albums too !
sadly it seems to date at least the lack of drive on the part of Tony and Bobby re the back catalogue plus any big 'champion' of their work holds The Hollies back
while long ago unfair and downright WRONG insults by John Lennon and George Harrison (long withdrawn by each after in their own ways to be fair) I suspect per that Steve Hoffman forum STILL count against the band in the eyes of some critics and certain Beatles fans of a more 'sheeple' attitude - IF the Fab Four were "anti" then SO are they etc !
that plus a seemingly certain attitude of indifference from Tony and Bobby together with the so called official forum largely just being a promo of tours etc has I think combined to keep The Hollies so badly underrated and undervalued musically
one thread on Hoffman's forum asks; 'would The Hollies have been bigger IF the lyrics were better...?'
while mega praising up;
Beatles - 'Number Nine, Number Nine, Number Nine...' ad nausium
Beach Boys; 'Well your well your welcome, well you're welcome to come'
Pink Floyd; 'I know a mouse and he hasn't got a house I don't know why I call him Gerald...'
Traffic; 'I looked in the sky where an elephant's eye was looking at me from a bubble gum tree...'
The Kinks; 'I'm not like everybody else, I'm not like everybody else, like everybody else, like everybody else, cos I'm not like everybody else, no I'm not like everybody else...'
The Small Faces; 'Life is just a bowl of all bran you wake up every morning and it's there...'
o.k. I LOVE all those bands deeply ! - but IF we are asking on a thread re the quality of those Hollies lyrics
- er well what about those groups then ?
NO such threads exist for any of them eh ?
so it seems The Hollies partly at least due to their own lack of self promotion, are rated far less than many of their contemporaries who in truth were no class above them !
|
|
|
Post by cameron on Nov 7, 2018 18:51:59 GMT
Lol, that thread about the lyrics REALLY wound me up! The Hollies were exemplary lyrically - look how many of their own songs don't actually rhyme! Then there's the subject matter too; from complaining about over population in 'Too Many People' way back in 1965, to a lament from an adopted person to their unknown real mother in 'I'm Down' in 1975, they covered everything and went many places that other people didn't.
Pink Floyd were terrible songwriters once Syd left the fold, they spent nearly four years finding their feet, albeit in extended jams edited together to make songs with very simple structures. The Small Faces too weren't the creative geniuses that everyone makes them out to be, their self composed output was comparatively very low compared to other artists, and by their own admission, it took them a very long time to drag out a song from start to finish. And I absolutely love the Moody Blues, but I haven't got a clue what on earth are their lyrics about most of the time!
The Hollies were a quality songwriting outfit. There's very very few 'mis-steps' in their exhaustingly massive back catalogue from 1963 - 1976/7. Even weak lyrics in songs like 'Fifi The Flea', 'Mad Professor Blythe', 'Row The Boat Together', 'Everything Is Sunshine' and 'Please Let Me Please' carried absolutely superb catchy melodies, middle eight sections (which the Hollies are the undisputed kings of adding in a middle eight section), and varied well thought out arrangements.
Point well made too about other famous artists having down periods. The Kinks virtually slipped off the radar from 1968-1970, despite their absolutely stellar output from that era. The Bee Gees had personal troubles from 1970-72 that saw the brothers split in different ways, and even then it wouldn't be until 1975 that they found their feet again with 'Jive Talking', which was the stand out track from the 'Main Course' album anyway. And don't forget the Moody Blues, who completely dropped off the radar from 1965-1967 during such a culturally rich part in time. The music world was such a fast and furious place back in the 1960s, rumours were rife about the Beatles splitting up because no one had heard anything from them for four months in 1967! The Hollies consistently kept up a high standard of albums from 1963 right through to 1976, and it's about time that they're celebrated for that.
|
|
|
Post by stuball on Nov 7, 2018 23:09:48 GMT
Certainly The Hollies got very little respect, whether we're talking the '60's or today. 'Frivolous', 'undemanding', 'lightweight' were all terms used ad nauseum to describe the group's output.
I recall one critic from the '70's, in an effort to explain why the group's LPs were never as successful as their single output, ventured that a Beatles album was like sitting down to a fine steak & lobster dinner (something to sink your teeth into, and then savour each morsel), while The Hollies albums were all jello and whipped cream. Fine for a 2-minute single, but sickeningly cloying in album form.
If you have the American version of the Dylan LP handy, have a look at the back cover write-up. Evidently Epic Records had so little faith in The Hollies that they hired John Gabree of High Fidelity to write a piece to 'big up' the group. No matter that LP 'liner notes' by 1969 were about 3 years out of fashion. At the time, I thought it was a well-written piece(goodness knows, someone had to build up the group!). But today, for a group that at the time had six years of international success, and a slew of hit records, it makes me shake my head. Check out Gabree referencing The Yardbirds, The Who and The Kinks and grouping them with The Hollies, as four acts, while successful, never received the credit due them. (Can you imagine a Who or Kinks LP name-dropping The Hollies in their liner notes to promote themselves? Neither can I!)
And yet I can't accept Gabree's premise. The Hollies, although probably outselling the other three bands, never had the respect that The Kinks, The Who and The Yardbirds enjoyed. And that was in 1969. Today, that chasm has widened: all three bands are universally revered. The Hollies? Not so much. Somehow it just doesn't seem fair.
|
|
|
Post by gee on Nov 8, 2018 21:14:41 GMT
There WAS a time in the early seventies during the 'theatrical' Kinks era at RCA ('Preservation', 'Soap Opera', 'Schoolboys in Disgrace' etc) pre their Arista years 'Godfathers of Punk' revival when at home in the UK at least they were seen as being very little 'respected men' who were doing things SO UNfashionably....!
Also later CSN were seen as something of a 'joke' in the UK in the post punk 80's years too....!
The Hollies in fact DID have plenty of respect within the music business from many of their peers tho'
The Everly Brothers picked mostly original Hollies songs and notably NOT hits but album tracks and 'B' sides to cover on 'Two Yanks in England' in 1966....with a few other then famous chart hits by Manfred Mann, Spencer Davis Group etc - NOT any Beatles, Stones, Who, Kinks etc so called much more 'important' groups (per some forums and music critics) songs - eh ?
while figures such as Eric Clapton, Jimi Hendrix, Steve Stills, Bruce Springsteen, The Rolling Stones, etc were either friends of The Hollies or admired what they did
seeing Barry and Robin Gibb giving The Hollies a standing ovation at that Hall of Fame induction was a nice moment and clearly many of their fellow musicians DID rate The Hollies highly - hence 'The Group's Group' tag they had like singer Matt Monro was called 'The Singer's singer' - the choice of their fellow artists
John Lennon's unkind digs early on were clearly as Lennon - absurdly really as he had no cause to feel anybody was about to usurp The Beatles position - it seems saw The Hollies as being potentially far MORE of some kind of threat to his band than maybe say Gerry, Freddie, Billy J. or The Swinging Blue Jeans etc were then as The Hollies (who very successfully took over the Cavern Club residency AND had been accepted in Liverpool !- then also were snapped up by EMI's Parlophone label too) popularity and chart success in the UK grew fast...with 'Britain's answer to The Beach Boys' UK press tag given to The Hollies and their clear instrumental power plus regular big UK chart hits possibly worrying John who by his own admission was a 'jealous guy' !
hence years later John gave 'Hey Willy' a positive plug in the UK music press - his belated 'apology' to The Hollies there I think
however those 'Beatle digs' were picked up on by some music writers who went OTT often belittling The Hollies maybe to find some kind of hoped favor with John Lennon ?? (I can think of one music book writer and former editor in particular)
while Nash very much 'distancing' himself during the heyday of CSNY with the occasional rather belittling digs at his old band's image and style only helped to reduce The Hollies critical standing over the seventies as well
whatever those angles plus it has to be said also their own often apparent indifference - especially from Tony - re bigging up themselves etc and together with a distinct lack of interest in any strong group image and rarely fully stretching their musical wings that bit more has probably contributed alot to their lack of higher esteem by many, especially in the USA but also at home somewhat
|
|
|
Post by cameron on Nov 8, 2018 23:22:34 GMT
I think quietly, the Hollies have always been respected. Lots of bands do reference them as a big influence (I was just reading some liner notes in an album by The Sweet, who claimed that the Hollies' tight instrumental and vocal prowess was a major inspiration for them), and there's the seemingly universally accepted "band's band" term for the group.
It seems to me that John Lennon came out swinging whenever he felt threatened. The Beatles could only dream of being as tight as the Hollies on stage in 1965/6. As they faced a very ailing live act showing up a lack of practice, seeing an explosive set from the Hollies must have really made them feel bad. And in the end, George Harrison talked himself out of a LOT of royalty cheques!
I think because the Hollies never went 'heavy', they seem to be pushed into the pop segment. I don't really see the problem with this. Some of the most revered bands in the world never went 'heavy' too, but maybe the assumption was there that the Hollies were perfectly capable of rocking harder - which we know from concert recordings from the Rickfors era in 1972/3.
As Gee points out, a lack of belief from within is what's really plagued the Hollies all along. Graham Nash gave them a kind of confidence that they never ever regained once he left. They even talked down 'Confessions Of The Mind' and 'Distant Light' upon release, the moment they filed to chart well! As soon as 'Gasoline Alley Bred' and 'I Can't Tell The Bottom From The Top' slipped down in the charts, they were quoted in a couple of music magazines voicing their displeasure in the final mix which buried lots of elements that they felt would have made them a bigger hit. I mean, they were completely correct, but to talk your own music down shows a huge lack of confidence.
|
|
|
Post by eric on Nov 9, 2018 0:20:47 GMT
I have written previously about The Hollies high standing in Australia and their influence on musicians Down Under. Like Cameron, I too was recently reminded of the respect in which The Hollies are still held today when reading a new book on The Angels, an Aussie band who recorded with the same label as AC/DC and The Easybeats. A founding member of The Angels recalled the days in the Sixties when local bands were rated by their ability to reproduce the hits of great artists. He noted that a local band The Twilights (who had an enormous Aussie hit with “What’s Wrong With The Way I Live”) played The Beatles and The Hollies note perfect. That statement reflects the high regard in which The Hollies were held in the Sixties and that 50 or so years later, for this musician, they were not forgotten. And this is from a man whose band played heavy rock with no harmonies!
|
|
|
Post by gee on Nov 9, 2018 12:46:21 GMT
Allan Clarke's amazing remark about there effectively being NO Hollies once Nash left in that LTAW DVD probably stunned all Hollies fans - they didn't really need critics belittling them, they did it quite efficiently themselves !!
that must rank along with Allan's 'I'm a beer and skittles man' mid sixties comment as being the most STUPID and incorrect self (and band) belittlement statements ever ...
talk about loading the gun, taking careful aim...and shooting your career in the foot !
Many others in the music business certainly never had such a negative opinion re The Hollies
In Dan Mantovina's book 'Without You' The Tragic Story of Badfinger on page six Iveys guitarist Dai Jenkins says; 'we admired The Hollies...'
while I have read that Pete Ham had The Iveys sing 'Just One Look' over and over again until their vocal harmonies were as tight as The Hollies - as Badfinger's USA no.1 'Day After Day' proved later !
Joey Molland of course went to the same school as Terry Sylvester in Liverpool
apt that later Allan Clarke covered Pete's song 'Baby Blue' on a solo album in 1980
Rolling Stones bass player Bill Wyman talks positively about The Stones long friendship with The Hollies in his book 'A Stone Alone' (Tony and his girlfriend being among Stones guests backstage at the Hyde Park concert in 1969) while the three Hollies Clarke, Hicks, Nash contributed percussion to a few early Stones tracks with Tony and Graham later 'thanked' by Andrew Loog Oldham in his sleeve notes to 'Metamophosis' compilation album in 1975
we know Jimi Hendrix had a copy of 'Hollies Sing Dylan' while his drummer Mitch Mitchell stood in for an unwell Bobby on those three tracks in 1967
and when Allan went solo in 1971 some well known musicians such as Gary Brooker, Dee Murray, Herbie Flowers etc all came to play for Clarkie on his solo albums proof of their high regard for Allan
|
|
|
Post by gee on Nov 9, 2018 13:01:08 GMT
Re George Harrison, losing out on the royalty cheques in 1965
Very true, however FAR more importantly his derogative and unprofessional comments re The Hollies cover of his song 'If I Needed Someone' (which up to then was climbing UP the UK singles chart) duly stalled the single at no.20 and prevented The Hollies from having a much bigger hit which would have given George's songwriting cause a MASSIVE boost
...and then put him in a far stronger position re his songs to John, Paul and producer George Martin (who had suggested to Ron Richards that IINS would be suitable for The Hollies to cover in the first place !)
as it was George next got THREE songs on the following Beatles album 'Revolver' including the key opening track 'Taxman' which I do wonder might not have been the case but for The Hollies scoring a UK top twenty hit single with 'only a George song' - something John, Paul and George Martin must have been acutely aware of as for the first time a Beatles hit cover had NOT been a Lennon-McCartney effort
As I have said before The Hollies put a George Harrison song into the UK Top Twenty in 1965 some FOUR years before George got there with one of his own songs with 'Something' in 1969 - for that alone George really should have had more sense and been grateful
To be fair his comments made just before going onstage in Glasgow to reporter Alan Smith he thought were 'off the record' tho' George SHOULD have insisted on that first, and he learned a lesson both re the royalties then when the assembled UK press gleefully took the rise out of him at his forthcoming marriage news conference when he was asked 'have you invited The Hollies ?' (to press laughter)
whatever George's songwriting cause was given a big boost by The Hollies - something again John Lennon might have then been 'miffed' at ?
from then on they took George's songs more seriously than before and the term 'only a George song' was forgotten - on 'Abbey Road' George had two classic songs including the UK single 'A' side and arguably the two strongest songs on the album overall ?
|
|
|
Post by knut on Apr 8, 2019 15:42:32 GMT
Toby Clarke confirmed yesterday that the album is finished.
|
|
|
Post by allanangel on Apr 8, 2019 16:01:43 GMT
Toby Clarke confirmed yesterday that the album is finished. Cannot wait for it to be released!!!
|
|