Post by gee on Oct 5, 2013 11:08:46 GMT
Tom Jones v Englebert:
I think the "Tom Jones v Englebert" thing was probably a deliberate "publicity ongoing banter"
- BOTH artists were managed then by Gordon Mills, both signed to Decca Records & were then produced by Peter Sullivan (alot in conjunction with Mills)
- thus while they were differeing style soloists with Tom the 'rockier' & 'Engy' the 'balladeer' appealing to differing age bracket (women mostly) they did cover some common songs and both put a foot in each others territory....thus by having a jokey banter (even a light hearted 'insult banter') they gave each other a 'plug' as both were high selling male vocalists in a period dominated by the groups of the sixties
Both Tom & Engy then successfully relocated to Las Vegas clubs & hotels scene after the hits largely dried up & each later had left Decca which by the eighties closed down it's pop releases to concentrate purely on classical music. (wirh the big selling Decca Bands such as The Stones, Moody Blues etc all gone by then)
Beatles v Hollies:
EMI / Parlophone must have been more (very !) annoyed by John Lennon's silly attack on fellow EMI Parlophone group The Hollies tho'....
The rather silly if brief 'Beatles v Hollies' thing John Lennon stupidly started ("Lennon Blasts Hollies') & George Harrison then unwisely fuelled re his 'If I Needed Someone' remarks (which I think George quickly regretted) did neither group any favours (Paul McCartney then typically 'smoothed things over' later in 1966 by praising 'I Can't Let Go')
- I think the often insecure younger John Lennon (inexplicably in retrospect) was very likely becoming rather 'worried' about the competition from 'Manchester's Beatles' when he accused The Hollies of being 'Beatles copyists' - if anyone influenced The Hollies it was The Everly Brothers NOT The Beatles (The Evelys likewise influenced The Beatles too !)
It was a brief thing tho'....By 1967 Lennon & Nash had become friends, Nash was in the crowd singing along to 'Hey Jude' on 'The David Frost Show' & I believe in the crowd for 'All You Need is Love'
Maybe John's later happily positive appraisal of 'Hey Willy' in 1971 (when as guest reviewer he said; 'it'll shoot UP the charts like a rocket...' - which proved to be the 'kiss of Death' on the single as it then stalled outside the top twenty !) ...was Lennon's kind of sheepish belated 'apology' to The Hollies for some of his acidic & unkind (and inaccurate) Anti Hollies remarks earlier....(??)
on the songwriting front John & Paul were obviously very strong and more prolific than almost anybody bar Brian Wilson of The Beach Boys early on...they set the template and standard for everyone else to aspire to in terms of being 'self sufficient' pop tunesmiths no question, not reliant on outside songwriters in the main & profusely penning their own hit singles...plus were very innovative in the recording studio and literally opened doors for the groups & younger artists who followed their lead...as The Hollies quickly did.
However as groups "instrument wise": The Hollies were easily as strong if not even stronger despite what some (often American but British too) music writers like to say....No comparason between Ringo & Bobby Elliott as drummers, while Haydock was a faster six string bassist & Hicks easily on a par with George as a guitarist - vocally as teams Clarke-Hicks-Nash were even STRONGER than Lennon-McCartney-Harrison...compare the two in the vocal performances on the two versions of 'If I Needed Someone' - whichever you might prefer musically or arrangement wise the fact is in straight terms of sheer 'vocal power' The Hollies version is vocally a stronger more dynamic & compact sound - hence it was The Hollies NOT The Beatles whom the music press called;
'Britain's answer to The Beach Boys...'
Ron Richards always pushed the harmony vocals to the fore much more on Hollies recordings than George Martin did the vocals on Beatles records - while The Beatles only occasionally used full on three part hamonised vocals (i.e. 'This Boy', 'Tell Me Why', 'Yes it is', 'Nowhere Man', & later 'Because' etc) - more often it was John or Paul or George as lead (plus Ringo) ...or John & Paul (with George on chorus or certain lines)...and only at times did all three take full on harmonised vocals as opposed to backing vocals
so the two bands WERE quite different in style & approach...and Lennon's jibes I feel were more likely through 'worry' than anything substantial - he saw a potential threat - John always used 'attack as his defence' (later on The Rollings Stones; 'if The Beatles sneezed The Stones caught a cold...' , Paul; 'How Do You Sleep ?' , even once on Yoko' 'Move Over Ms. L' !) ....and he often over reacted (as when he broke Bob Wooler's ribs at Paul's 21 st birthday party...he also then lunged at a girl in a threatening manner and Billy J.Kramer intervened, Mal Evans dragging John away quickly)
so I think John Lennon's early sixties swipes at The Hollies were an act of a worried insecure guy (he could also be a 'Jealous Guy' as he later openly admitted in song) - trying to 'belittle' any perceived possible chart opposition/threat to his band... (Lennon was bluntly told where to 'get off' by an unimpressed Londoner Ray Davies of The Kinks in Blackpool in 1965 after a verbal exchange there too...while The Who's Pete Townshend often made it clear he was no big Lennon/Beatles fan either...!)
Ironic that John had finally conquered his nasty acidic side....just in time to be shot !
-powerful fiery Welshman Tom Jones & even more worringly the massive Tommy Cooper had each nearly 'killed John' on occasions when enraged by Lennon's 'bitchy' remarks...poor hapless 'Lennon bodyguard' Mal Evans had to throw himself up as punchbag to deflect any blows intended for Lennon in those early days...Lennon later gave Tom a demo of Paul's 'Hey Jude' & 'namechecked' comedian TC in his anthem 'Give Peace A Chance' by way of 'sheepish' apology...
I think the "Tom Jones v Englebert" thing was probably a deliberate "publicity ongoing banter"
- BOTH artists were managed then by Gordon Mills, both signed to Decca Records & were then produced by Peter Sullivan (alot in conjunction with Mills)
- thus while they were differeing style soloists with Tom the 'rockier' & 'Engy' the 'balladeer' appealing to differing age bracket (women mostly) they did cover some common songs and both put a foot in each others territory....thus by having a jokey banter (even a light hearted 'insult banter') they gave each other a 'plug' as both were high selling male vocalists in a period dominated by the groups of the sixties
Both Tom & Engy then successfully relocated to Las Vegas clubs & hotels scene after the hits largely dried up & each later had left Decca which by the eighties closed down it's pop releases to concentrate purely on classical music. (wirh the big selling Decca Bands such as The Stones, Moody Blues etc all gone by then)
Beatles v Hollies:
EMI / Parlophone must have been more (very !) annoyed by John Lennon's silly attack on fellow EMI Parlophone group The Hollies tho'....
The rather silly if brief 'Beatles v Hollies' thing John Lennon stupidly started ("Lennon Blasts Hollies') & George Harrison then unwisely fuelled re his 'If I Needed Someone' remarks (which I think George quickly regretted) did neither group any favours (Paul McCartney then typically 'smoothed things over' later in 1966 by praising 'I Can't Let Go')
- I think the often insecure younger John Lennon (inexplicably in retrospect) was very likely becoming rather 'worried' about the competition from 'Manchester's Beatles' when he accused The Hollies of being 'Beatles copyists' - if anyone influenced The Hollies it was The Everly Brothers NOT The Beatles (The Evelys likewise influenced The Beatles too !)
It was a brief thing tho'....By 1967 Lennon & Nash had become friends, Nash was in the crowd singing along to 'Hey Jude' on 'The David Frost Show' & I believe in the crowd for 'All You Need is Love'
Maybe John's later happily positive appraisal of 'Hey Willy' in 1971 (when as guest reviewer he said; 'it'll shoot UP the charts like a rocket...' - which proved to be the 'kiss of Death' on the single as it then stalled outside the top twenty !) ...was Lennon's kind of sheepish belated 'apology' to The Hollies for some of his acidic & unkind (and inaccurate) Anti Hollies remarks earlier....(??)
on the songwriting front John & Paul were obviously very strong and more prolific than almost anybody bar Brian Wilson of The Beach Boys early on...they set the template and standard for everyone else to aspire to in terms of being 'self sufficient' pop tunesmiths no question, not reliant on outside songwriters in the main & profusely penning their own hit singles...plus were very innovative in the recording studio and literally opened doors for the groups & younger artists who followed their lead...as The Hollies quickly did.
However as groups "instrument wise": The Hollies were easily as strong if not even stronger despite what some (often American but British too) music writers like to say....No comparason between Ringo & Bobby Elliott as drummers, while Haydock was a faster six string bassist & Hicks easily on a par with George as a guitarist - vocally as teams Clarke-Hicks-Nash were even STRONGER than Lennon-McCartney-Harrison...compare the two in the vocal performances on the two versions of 'If I Needed Someone' - whichever you might prefer musically or arrangement wise the fact is in straight terms of sheer 'vocal power' The Hollies version is vocally a stronger more dynamic & compact sound - hence it was The Hollies NOT The Beatles whom the music press called;
'Britain's answer to The Beach Boys...'
Ron Richards always pushed the harmony vocals to the fore much more on Hollies recordings than George Martin did the vocals on Beatles records - while The Beatles only occasionally used full on three part hamonised vocals (i.e. 'This Boy', 'Tell Me Why', 'Yes it is', 'Nowhere Man', & later 'Because' etc) - more often it was John or Paul or George as lead (plus Ringo) ...or John & Paul (with George on chorus or certain lines)...and only at times did all three take full on harmonised vocals as opposed to backing vocals
so the two bands WERE quite different in style & approach...and Lennon's jibes I feel were more likely through 'worry' than anything substantial - he saw a potential threat - John always used 'attack as his defence' (later on The Rollings Stones; 'if The Beatles sneezed The Stones caught a cold...' , Paul; 'How Do You Sleep ?' , even once on Yoko' 'Move Over Ms. L' !) ....and he often over reacted (as when he broke Bob Wooler's ribs at Paul's 21 st birthday party...he also then lunged at a girl in a threatening manner and Billy J.Kramer intervened, Mal Evans dragging John away quickly)
so I think John Lennon's early sixties swipes at The Hollies were an act of a worried insecure guy (he could also be a 'Jealous Guy' as he later openly admitted in song) - trying to 'belittle' any perceived possible chart opposition/threat to his band... (Lennon was bluntly told where to 'get off' by an unimpressed Londoner Ray Davies of The Kinks in Blackpool in 1965 after a verbal exchange there too...while The Who's Pete Townshend often made it clear he was no big Lennon/Beatles fan either...!)
Ironic that John had finally conquered his nasty acidic side....just in time to be shot !
-powerful fiery Welshman Tom Jones & even more worringly the massive Tommy Cooper had each nearly 'killed John' on occasions when enraged by Lennon's 'bitchy' remarks...poor hapless 'Lennon bodyguard' Mal Evans had to throw himself up as punchbag to deflect any blows intended for Lennon in those early days...Lennon later gave Tom a demo of Paul's 'Hey Jude' & 'namechecked' comedian TC in his anthem 'Give Peace A Chance' by way of 'sheepish' apology...