|
Post by cameron on Aug 15, 2015 21:45:39 GMT
A cleaned up version of the early take of 'Try It', that crept out as a B-side to 'Jennifer Eccles' in some countries in 1968. 'Try It' was recorded on 5th September, 1967 at Abbey Road as part of the sessions for 'Butterfly'. Anyone know any more about this early take? How come it came to be released? It does give me hope that more 'early versions' of Hollies songs may exist in their vault. Especially those songs that you see on their sessionography that took multiple sessions to complete. soundcloud.com/theholliesrareandunreleased/try-it-early-take
|
|
|
Post by dirtyfaz on Aug 15, 2015 23:17:34 GMT
What do you mean "cleaned up" and what did you do to clean it up?
|
|
|
Post by dirtyfaz on Aug 16, 2015 14:07:51 GMT
That came out in a few territories and maybe Australia first but also came out in the USA as well. Ever body seems to give credit to the Mexican EP as being the first issue of this track but I believe this is incorrect. Not sure if the Oz single or the US single was issued first but most certainly before the Mexican EP that seems to be credited with it being the first issued of that take. Most certainly that is incorrect.
Maybe Tim Chacksfield is full of himself and doesn't get or understand what is relevant. the average punter doesn't care what version of a track is issued because they don't know any better. Collectors do and that should be taken into account be these compilers. You have to wonder 'bout their choices.
|
|
|
Post by cameron on Aug 18, 2015 1:24:31 GMT
The Hollies (ie, Bobby and Tony) veto anything that's unusual or rare. I'm amazed that we even got the Lewisham Odeon concert (after a talking down from Bobby in an interview about the "flat" performance just a year before it was issued) and more recently, the 'Out On The Road' album from the "bland" Rickfors era. It was Tony and Bobby's idea to cut all the introductions and endings from the BBC set too. They need someone to get involved who works like Graham does with CSN - release what the fans want (something "new"), not what they consider to be their best bits or anything.
As far as I know, Tim Chacksfield has been quite instrumental in getting a lot of Hollies rarities out there officially. But his list of ones yet to come that he's pushed for in the past is quite staggering. There's more than you or I would initially imagine. There doesn't appear to be a figure that thinks outside the box like Graham Nash who created the excellent CSN Demos compilation and is trawling through their live archive. The Hollies always talk of their original demos, early takes etc. Why not a set of these? Doesn't have to be flawless quality or amazing performances, the music is what counts.
Don't get me wrong, I really appreciate Bobby and Tony for being involved and okaying things like the Long Road Home boxset, Clarke Hicks & Nash Years and Changin' Times. But compared to every other major 1960's band, their back catalogue is an inaccessible mess with the die-hard fans having nothing to go on other than buying every new compilation for the sake of one new track or mix. I was pleased to see that many refused to buy '50 at 50' for that very reason. There's no other way of putting it other than a bit of an insult for the fans. Another year, another "Greatest Hits" compilation....
I think ultimately, the problem is the Hollies' record contract. They're in total control. I don't think EMI (or whoever owns the exclusive rights to their catalogue these days) are contractually obliged to put anything out and any remastering, tape transfers and studio time have to be paid for by "Hollies LTD" which was a fairly standard and very good arrangement in the 1960's, but doesn't work for them now. Alas, I think we have to just sit back and take what comes when it does; invariably paired in with our 500th copy of jennifer Eccles, On A Carousel, Sorry Suzanne and the such like...
|
|
|
Post by cameron on Aug 18, 2015 1:30:49 GMT
What do you mean "cleaned up" and what did you do to clean it up? In regards to this comment, it's actually a copy from the master tape, not a needle drop from the original vinyl
|
|
|
Post by dirtyfaz on Aug 18, 2015 2:27:15 GMT
Master tape, Interesting?
|
|
|
Post by dirtyfaz on Aug 18, 2015 3:16:02 GMT
That early version has been issued on CD. The "Butterfly" CD as part of the 2013 Japanese reissues series. That CD had 26 tracks including both the mono and stereo version of the album plus Try It and mono version of Like Everytime Before.
Don't know if they use master tape or did a needle drop for Try It.
|
|
|
Post by Stranger on Aug 18, 2015 11:47:53 GMT
Well said Cameron. The Hollies catalogue needs a kick in the arse.
It strikes me that Procol Harum had all their core albums re released with bonus trackd by a small label about five years ago. This year they have moved to another boutique label and they are re releasing them all with even more tracks and BBC sessions.
The Hollies need a small label that cares.
|
|
|
Post by dirtyfaz on Aug 18, 2015 13:58:15 GMT
I agree with you Stranger as well as Cameron.
What you say about small/boutique labels would be an interesting prospect. Sure we have had the mono & stereo versions released on CD plus a group of bonus tracks. The Japanese do that very well.
I guess that this would need the cooperation of Hollies Ltd to make available demos etc. and given the current climate and thinking that sort of project is not likely.
Those CSN sets that Nash was involved in sure show you that this kind of project can be done.
|
|
|
Post by Stranger on Aug 18, 2015 17:13:03 GMT
The Hollies are a really small band for a big label like EMI, however, they could be a really big band for a small label!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2015 17:37:12 GMT
Just be thankful the situation isn't as bad as the 1963-1967 era Rolling Stones. There are literally dozens of fascinating outtakes as well as BBC recordings from this era circulating unofficially (and no doubt many more hiding in the vaults), yet the ONLY time any outtakes from these years were issued officially was on the 1975 'Metamorphosis' collection - and these were pretty much all Jagger-Richards demos backed by session men rather than true Rolling Stones recordings (and the band tried to stop that release!). Even some of their 60s UK albums have never been released on CD - only the US versions with different track listings. So in comparison we've done very well regarding The Hollies outtakes over the years, despite the situation being far from ideal. When Cameron says "Compared to every other major 1960's band, their [The Hollies] back catalogue is an inaccessible mess" he's way off the mark.
|
|
|
Post by cameron on Aug 18, 2015 22:38:29 GMT
I completely disagree. You go on to the internet and you can get just about everything that the Rolling Stones committed to tape. HMV stocks all their albums, admittedly, some of the very early ones are the American versions that usually included a hit single or two. You're lucky if you can get "Hollies 20 Golden Greats" from there! A few years ago I got a sixty track bootleg of various Rolling Stones tracks from 1963-1969 that was jam packed full of rare tracks, live performances, early versions and backing tracks. All I did was type in "Rolling Stones Bootleg" and the whole thing popped up and was there for the taking for free.
There's NOTHING like this for the Hollies. And it still blows my mind how we even got "Marrakesh Express". Even all their bootleg material was all issued "officially" once upon a time on the TV or the radio. There's no alternative takes, early versions, backing tracks and the only official live recordings that we've got are 'Live Hits', three tracks from the Stockholm '66 concert (of which around 25-30 minutes survives) and more recently, a heavily chopped down Lewisham Odeon '68 concert.
They really do need a small label to get involved. The recent Small Faces remasters were done this way, but must have cost a lot of money to do as it was all done using analogue equipment and you can really tell, they're the best they've ever sounded. But I do have to say, the boxset that was made available was outrageously priced for what new material it actually unearthed. The inclusion of fake stereo USA mixes on the CDs smacked of scraping the barrel. I really liked the Move's reissues too, particularly their debut album with an all new stereo remix and replica vinyl effect CDs. You put them in your computer and got exclusive bonus content for die-hard fans like an A Capella version of "Night Of Fear". I've recently got the Bee Gees original 60's albums that were reissued by Rhino who are a bigger company (who also work with CSNY), and they offered the original mono/stereo mixes on one CD and a full disc of alternative versions, early versions, demos and unreleased tracks - all beautifully produced from the original session tapes. These sets always feature a fantastic informative booklet too, usually with interviews with the band in, which also make them worth buying.
What you have with the Hollies CURRENTLY is a reissue of everything up to 'Another Night' (officially from EMI). The first four albums are grouped onto a "twofer" package and Hollies Sing Hollies and Confessions Of The Mind are now out of print for some reason and command upwards of £30! Of course, you can buy them on iTunes but you're getting a lower quality AAC file. Only Romany, Hollies ('74) and Another Night feature any bonus tracks or offered anything that was previously unreleased or at least very hard to get. I'm very thankful for the Clarke, Hicks & Nash Years though and more recently Changin' Times. But as you'll all know, it's not quite the same as having the album in its own right, as it originally was. And I don't know how much longer they'll be dining out on the 1999 remasters which are now 16 years old!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2015 6:41:20 GMT
Yes, but now you're talking about bootlegs, whereas previously you were talking about Tony and Bobby not giving approval for releases. Imagine not even having an official release of 'Butterfly' but instead only being able to buy the US revamp? The Beatles have been heavily bootlegged for decades of course, but at least they released the Anthology and BBC sets. Ditto Elvis, where there have been many excellent officially released albums and CDs of outtakes and concerts that are aimed at collectors. The Rolling Stones have started in recent years to sanction the release of official DVDs of classic 70s / early 80s concerts + the very occasional outtakes on reissues of their 70s albums, but there's still nothing whatsoever from their early years (the closest we got was the DVD + CD of 'Rock 'n' Roll Circus', and that was 20 years ago).
And don't get me started on the lack of official CDs on The Dave Clark Five...
Forget official releases; our best hope with The Hollies is a series of bootlegs. The surprise surfacing of 'Marrakesh Express' has proved that the archives ARE accessible for those determined enough! This might even persuade Tony & Bobby to start sanctioning official releases (or perhaps Graham could persuade them of the worth of doing this?).
|
|
|
Post by roots66 on Aug 19, 2015 9:08:12 GMT
The Rolling Stones have started in recent years to sanction the release of official DVDs of classic 70s / early 80s concerts + the very occasional outtakes on reissues of their 70s albums, but there's still nothing whatsoever from their early years (the closest we got was the DVD + CD of 'Rock 'n' Roll Circus', and that was 20 years ago). [Not trying to go against your argument here, but wouldn't "Charlie Is My Darling" count? The DVD and deluxe DVD/CD package came out in 2012.]
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2015 14:51:59 GMT
You're right of course. I've had very decent bootleg DVDs of this for years (3 different edits) so haven't bothered with the official release.
The occasional other things have sneaked out (for example some versions of songs on CD reissues of the 'Got Live If You Want It' LP are alternate recordings, and an alternate vocal version of 'Ruby Tuesday'), but nevertheless the official situation for Brian Jones era fanatics like myself has still been very poor... far more so than Graham Nash era Hollies which covered much the same period.
|
|
|
Post by cameron on Aug 23, 2015 0:05:55 GMT
My point was really that people have raided the vaults of seemingly most other major artists of the 60's and if you want to find bootlegged material, it is out there. This hasn't happened with the Hollies. No matter how hard you search, it's just not out there. 'Marrakesh Express' is their first bootlegged tracks to come from someone accessing the master-tape directly. I guess with the Hollies owning their own tapes and licensing the music exclusively to EMI, they've got more control to keep their archive under lock and key. But anything on any Hollies bootleg is usually quite poor audio quality from some official TV show or radio show that was only intended to be broadcast once.
The Rolling Stones seem to be slowly working their way back through their album catalogue with a few official 'bootlegs' of live shows included. But they have only covered albums on their own label so far. i understand that contractually, they don't own their Decca archive? It was all part of a very dodgy business deal with the shark Allen Klein running off with the rights to it all.
|
|
|
Post by irelandcalling4 on Aug 23, 2015 23:04:27 GMT
Had never heard that before; has anyone managed to capture it on mp3? I love the Butterfly album, and the song itself; would like to add it to my ipod version.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2015 6:09:58 GMT
Had never heard that before; has anyone managed to capture it on mp3? Help yourself: anything2mp3.com/
|
|
|
Post by dirtyfaz on Oct 6, 2015 23:39:38 GMT
Cameron.
I have listened to your remaster. Where in the song is the fault on the intro. I must be missing it. I have had a listen to yours, the Japanese and my 45. Can you give me a time and what I should be hearing. I quite like the mastering of the Japanese Butterfly version of Try It.
Any help would be appreciated.
|
|