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Post by irelandcalling4 on Jul 30, 2015 10:49:38 GMT
Following the Changin' Times set, a third multi-CD collection may go for the third period of the Hollies career; 1974's self titled up to the 1979 album. What would the thoughts be on this period, artistically?
Hollies 1963-1968 is sublime; that material I would class as of similar quality to the Beatles and the Beach Boys. 1969-1973 artistically wonderful; no less magical than the preceeding era, and on it's own a superb collection of top-drawer popular music.
1974-1979: Some very obvious high points; I would say they were one of the only 60s acts still making some great records into the mid and later 70s. The pair of 1976 albums for instance, 'Write On' and 'Russian Roulette' are essential Hollies releases. 1974's self titled has some wonderful stuff, but it's fair to say maybe it wasn't as much an artistic jump forward, they seemed to write older fashioned pop songs. It has 'It's a Shame', 'Down on the Run' and some tracks not quite essential Hollies, but, it also has magic like 'Don't Let me Down', 'Air that I Breathe', 'Pick up the Pieces' and 'Curly Billy'.
1975's 'Another Night' is an album I haven't got into; haven't played it enough.
Opinions on this 3rd era of the band would be very welcome, and how it compares to the previous era's.
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Post by anthony on Jul 31, 2015 0:47:33 GMT
I really enjoyed the 70's albums right up to Russian Roulette. After that album I found the Hollies albums very boring apart from the odd song. Way too many harmonies, Rock and Roll songs went out the door. Have all the music but never play these albums, thought the Buddy Holly album was ok but at the same time think why didn't they write some of their own material. If I want Buddy Holly songs then I can buy his greatest hits, feel the same with the Dylan Album. |
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Post by cameron on Jul 31, 2015 8:51:48 GMT
'Another Night' is probably one of the best post 1974 albums from them. I'd say my favourites are Another Night, Russian Roulette and Write On. But even then, they're a bit of a mixed bag. I can't listen to them all the way through like I can with their pre-1974 albums.
Later ones like 5317704, Buddy Holly and A Crazy Steal I have no interest in at all. In fact, I bought the A Crazy Steal LP and I've never even managed to listen to both sides in full! Dreary ballads and that's it. They were definitely treading water on those albums and someone once remarked they were merely "riding out their contract with Polydor" - ie, making albums for the sake of it to meet contractual obligations.
I can't stand the Buddy Holly album, but I love Hollies Sing Dylan. I think they were terrifically inventive on Hollies Sing Dylan and transformed the songs. I guess later on, fancy effects and synthetic sounds overtook their musicianship - Bobbys drums are very toned down, Tony's guitar is often way back in the mix and the vocals are overly double and triple tracked. It's all false, they lost sight of what they were originally - a great band with some of the best musicians in the business. I think that's why I hate just about all of their 1980's material. It's all just synth-laden and not "Hollies" to me at all other than Allan Clarke's distinctive voice.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2015 11:08:10 GMT
I can't stand the Buddy Holly album, but I love Hollies Sing Dylan. I think they were terrifically inventive on Hollies Sing Dylan and transformed the songs. I guess later on, fancy effects and synthetic sounds overtook their musicianship - Bobbys drums are very toned down, Tony's guitar is often way back in the mix and the vocals are overly double and triple tracked. It's all false, they lost sight of what they were originally - a great band with some of the best musicians in the business. I think that's why I hate just about all of their 1980's material. It's all just synth-laden and not "Hollies" to me at all other than Allan Clarke's distinctive voice. Agree totally! I don't know why so many fans dislike the Dylan album (obviously the public liked it at the time judging by it's huge success). I think another reason why it works better is because the Dylan originals sound like demos, whereas the Buddy Holly songs were perfectly crafted rock / pop songs that didn't need improving. Having said that I love The Hollies jangly 1966 version of 'Take Your Time'! Regarding 'Another Night': back in the early 80s when I was about 18-19 I was curious to hear a bit more by The Hollies than just the hits, so I bought (secondhand) copies of 'For Certain Because', 'Evolution' and 'Another Night'. The first two albums absolutely blew me away (they still do!), but I can remember me and my brother sitting listening to 'Another Night' and waiting for it to get better. It never did. I'm still not keen on much from post 1974 (and even 1969 - 1973 I'm a bit selective in what I listen to). |
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Post by gee on Jul 31, 2015 11:46:37 GMT
I think they hit quite a good period of Clarke-Hicks-Sylvester songs over 1974-76 with 'Another Night', 'Write On', & 'Russian Roulette' being virtually all originals with just two decent covers
If I had to fault that period it was they were too 'group orientated' with no scope allowed for either Allan Clarke or Terry Sylvester to feature solo spots (always a highpoint on earlier Hollies albums) the holding back of Sylvester not allowing him any lead vocals was a major error
I think they probably also tried to go in too many directions at once (as Clarke's solo albums of covers also did at that time) - a few attempts to ride the mock reggae and disco bandwagon sound forced and uncharacteristic (while they blew it big time with choices of songs for the singles)
Like during the 'Evolution' era they 'phased out' Tony Hicks guitar on occasions in favor of additional instrumentation (ie. Hicks could have put a guitar solo on 'Daddy Don't Mind' instead of the 'rasberry like' trombone !)
I don't mind all the vocal harmonies but I agree after 1976 far too many slow ballads dominated - as I've said re 'A Crazy Steal' they ought to have utilised 'Crossfire' & 'Tip of The Iceberg' before digging up a largely 'flop' ballad single from 1976 surely ?
a slow melancholic ballad opener...is followed by another !!
'Amnesty', 'Feet on The Ground', & 'Hello To Romance' might have sounded FAR better if they had some drivin' rock tracks with feature guitarwork around them...
so 'ACS' was a cobbled together album culled from bits & bobs...while the 'ballads' album '5317704' was bit of an enigma - WHO was it aimed at ?
I saw no potential hits on it, they took three tracks off an unissued (now out) Jack Bruce Band album 'Jet Set Jewell' penned by Tony Hymas & Pete Brown, plus allowed Sylvester two lead vocals to save studio time - the album was hastily cut once Allan Clarke rejoined them after his second solo jaunt to the USA
'Harlequin' they had with Gary Brooker vocal so just quickly cut a new lead vocal by Terry (hence Brooker's end vocal bit left on the track) so '5317704' came out of a confused and troubled period (Clarke was not in a good state and was sent home from a tour of Germany !)
I think they 'played safe' doing ballads over 1978-79 when they lacked direction or idea
The Mike Batt sessions gave them 'If The Lights Go Out' in 1980 but as later with 'Laughter Turns To Tears' in 1985 they dropped both rockers in favour of...yes you guessed it, a ballad (that 'flopped')
Interesting I have a press cutting from 1965 where Hicks says they would NEVER do a ballad unless it was HEAVY (very ironic eh ?) - we do know they detested 'That's My Desire' in 1965 but after 'He Ain't Heavy' & 'Air That I Breathe' (plus 'I Can't Tell The Bottom..') it seems they were forever trying to do another like that....
I think in reality they should have played safe with driving pop/rockers that were danceable...and anything 'catchy' (as in the early sixties) - songs that really stuck in your mind - on the singles (unlike 'Son of A Rotten Gambler', 'I'm Down', etc) ...and experimented a bit more on the albums
LESS relying on the likes of Tony Hymas/Pete Brown...Mike Batt (whose songs wern't bad)...Murray Head...Paul Bliss...Rob Davis...
...and MORE original songs by Clarke, Sylvester, Hicks, even Bobby Elliott (whose songs in recent years have been their most adventurous recordings)
I think they got too reliant on others (Vale & Leeson etc) to provide the material and had far too little faith in themselves
concerts full of covers (often odd tracks like 'When Doves Cry' & 'tributes' to others who would NEVER pay tribute to them !) instead of deeper exploration of their OWN album back catalogue seemed to indicate a lack of group self confidence & belief in their material (after Nash left)
Allan Clarke suggested 'Buddy Holly' - I think the over reliance on Pete Wingfield as keyboardist/arranger was another sign of a band lacking self belief
their stompin' take of 'That'll Be The Day' (anticipating Status Quo's hit cover of 'The Wanderer' by two years) was decent enough, so too 'Think it Over' & a few tracks like 'Tell Me How' & even Clarke's solo vocal on 'Midnight Shift' are fine but far too often the arrangements sound a bit lack lustre or 'auto pilot'-ish, the reggae version of 'Peggy Sue Got Married' compares poorly to the later exhilarating cut featuring Buddy himself on lead vocal
Their 1966 'Byrds-ish' take of 'Take Your Time' outshone the 1980 keyboard led slower version (tho' the harmonies on both are spot on)
in short - complete with the con of the closing 'reprise' edit song snippet fiasco (!) - the album overall sounded rather uinspired and very 'going through the motions' bar a few brighter cuts far too keyboard over dominated...
the group seemed 'world weary' during that period...yet a few gems were left unissued !
so after 1976 I think they really lost their way, with some notable exception tracks that stood out, and the over reliance on ballads, outside 'flavor of the month' writers/arrangers, and a general lack of self belief seemed to take hold of the band
Bruce Welch didn't get it right by just pointing a finger at poor old Bernie (then not in a 'good place' by his own admission) but clearly they required a fresh more contemporary producer to take hold of the band and shake them up...make them start writing THEIR music and play more to the band's collective strengths (cut a few more Clarke and Clarke-Benson tracks...'Satellite Three' was one of the strongest tracks on '5317704', let Sylvester contribute a few more of his own songs & sing a few himself as he was doing 1971-73, make Bobby Elliott start songwriting for the band more, get Hicks songwriting alone & with Kenny Lynch again, etc )
I think they were in a way 'sleepwalking' into the 80's...going through the motions, opting for safe ballads etc...
that said the albums from 194-76 when Clarke rejoined were all pretty strong I think, and the latter ones each had some good songs
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Post by Stranger on Jul 31, 2015 12:55:42 GMT
I think Hollies (1974) is the last hurrah for the band really, it is well produced and played with a variety of sounds and songs. It fits into the general mould of Evolution and Distant Light etc.
Another Night (1975) is similar to the previous album in that it seems that a bit of effort went into it and it is well made but this time the results are just boring. Music has changed, synths are creeping in, the folk rock elements are on the way out.
Write On (1976) - This probably has a bit more spark than Another Night but it has some very dreary ballads too. I just don't think it has anything really special about it. The flair is gone.
Russian Roulette (1976) - A couple of decent, likeable tracks but generally pretty terrible. I think the good tracks might even be guilty pleasures. A song like Louise is desperation to my ears, generic words thrown over generic chords.
A Crazy Steal (1978) - I think this has something going for it in terms of atmosphere. It is the only Hollies record I know that sounds like this. It is certainly on the sombre side but it is a little bit different. I'm fond of tracks like What Am I Gonna Do? Very interesting note from Gee that Boulder To Birmingham was actually a '76 tack tacked on. It doesn't fit!
Five Three One Double Seven O Four (1978) - I think this album is as good as the amount of individual ballads on it that you enjoy. So in that sense, it isn't bad really, a sort of greatest hits without any hits. The likes of Stormy Waters is by the numbers but Allan's voice lends it something.
Buddy Holly (1980) - I have to go with the "stiffer than an embalmed corpse" comment! This could have been highly entertaining a la Sing Dylan, but it isn't. The production isn't good and it doesn't make use of the Hollies talents.
Some of the non-album stuff from the period has some merit though and can be more interesting than the album tracks e.g. Samuel and maybe even C'mon (guilty pleasure). I also think their work with Mike Batt was a bright spot and could have made for an excellent album.
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Post by Gralto on Jul 31, 2015 14:08:25 GMT
Personally out of all the 1974-80 albums, I would have played 5317704 the most - I quite like the production values. I picked up an acetate of Murray Heads Say It Ain't So Joe recently and his performance is outstanding - I also like The H version but it's inferior to the original.
I'd have to say I have played the Buddy Holly album the least of all Clarke Hollies albums by a long way. It always felt like an opportunistic K-Tel style cash in album, even if a bit of effort did go into it.
On the other hand, I'm going to go against trends and declare I like most of their post Sylvester/Calvert 80s output. Much of that is to do with Alan Coates and his excellent harmony vocals. Shine Silently to my ears is sublime - great singing and production values (sorry now a bit off topic!)... I may also be the only Hollies fan on the planet who really likes Baby Come Back. Yes the lyrics are naff but the melody, harmonies and Hicks end counter vocal are a tick from me. I even liked This Is It (unlike the NME who reviewed it at the time - not a lot of respect (or knowledge) for The Hollies' history by the young journos there at the time).
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Post by Stranger on Jul 31, 2015 14:36:45 GMT
I may also be the only Hollies fan on the planet who really likes Baby Come Back. Yes the lyrics are naff but the melody, harmonies and Hicks end counter vocal are a tick from me. You are not alone, Simon! Perfect little '60s style pop song in the '80s. Murray Head's solo album also has the original version of When I'm Yours. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2015 16:01:27 GMT
'Baby Come Back' would be far better without that horrible "loud" brittle 80s production imo, I do quite like the song though.
As for 'Say It Ain't So Joe', my fave version by far is Roger Daltrey's (perhaps because I knew his version first):
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Post by stuball on Jul 31, 2015 17:09:34 GMT
I recall one wag in the late '70's referring to those slow mundane Hollies LPs as 'The Hollies with midriff bulge'. Very appropriate and to the point.
Agree wholeheartedly with Stranger re 'Louise'. File that number under 'FILLER'.
Tried my best to like 'Buddy Holly' but can't. Production sounds extremely sludgy to my ear, and what was Bobby trying to do with his bass drum on several tunes? Introduce a disco-ish beat? Whatever, it didn't work. Far better when he kept it rocknroll as in 'Midnight Shift', one of the few really enjoyable numbers. The 'embalmed corpse' remark wasn't far off the money.
Limiting Sylvester to back-up vocals after '74 was one of the biggest boneheaded moves The Hollies made. Try to imagine 'For Certain Because' or 'Evolution' without Nash's occasional leads. Wouldn't be the same, would it?
'5317704' had good production qualities, but too bad half the songs were substandard. Surely Clarke, Hicks and Sylvester could come up with something better than 'Maybe It's Dawn', Song of The Sun' and 'Something To Live For'. Even 'When I'm Yours', a good number, outlasts its welcome with its excruciatingly interminable chorus. At least Terry got a couple of leads, one of the album's few merits.
Agree with Gee that 'A Crazy Steal' could have been improved with some available lively songs: 'Tip Of The Iceberg', 'Crossfire', C'mon', even 'Corrine' when you're really desperate! It's not that the individual slow tunes are that bad. They just seem that way because of slow song after slow song after slow song ad infinitum.
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Post by Tony Wilkinson on Jul 31, 2015 18:33:22 GMT
'Baby Come Back' would be far better without that horrible "loud" brittle 80s production imo, I do quite like the song though. As for 'Say It Ain't So Joe', my fave version by far is Roger Daltrey's (perhaps because I knew his version first): Never heard/seen this before but bloody brilliant, thanks for sharing............ |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2015 19:09:43 GMT
You're welcome Tony! I love hearing Roger singing these kind of songs, probably suits his voice better than the more screaming harder rock stuff that he often does with The Who.
Interestingly, this video features both John Entwistle and Keith Moon, despite it being a Roger Daltrey solo recording (the guitarist is the late Jimmy McCulloch of Thunderclap Newman, Wings and reformed The Small Faces fame). It's hard to imagine any of The Hollies helping Allan Clarke to promote a solo recording around this time...
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Post by JamesT on Jul 31, 2015 19:16:12 GMT
In relation to this period, I do really quite like 5317704, but certainly 'Hollies' and 'Another Night' are probably my favourite albums. I've got to agree with Simon that the production on it is superb - very crisp and defined, picking out the subtle acoustic rhythm guitar on some tracks with crystal clarity.
Say It Ain't So, Jo(e) is a great track - Daltrey's version is wonderful. I also like Gary Brooker's version (from his 'No More Fear Of Flying' solo album, released around the same time as 5317704 - don't forget the 'Harlequin' connection, too, and the thought that he might have been Clarkey's replacement!
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Post by anthony on Jul 31, 2015 23:00:26 GMT
You are not alone, Simon! Perfect little '60s style pop song in the '80s. Murray Head's solo album also has the original version of When I'm Yours.Your the second person on the planet who likes Baby Come Back. I really like it. |
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Post by gee on Aug 1, 2015 11:32:44 GMT
All opinions of course, but I think a few are a bit harsh on 'Write On' & 'Russian Roulette' (which I don't agree is 'terrible' at all)
Both are either all original or virtually (bar one cover on 'Write on') and 1976 saw them produce two studio albums for the first time since 1969 and two original works as in 1967
'Crocodile Woman' was a decent rockin track on 'Write on' as was '48 Hour Parole' & the title track on 'Russian Roulette'
'Louise' featured a blistering sax by Jim Jewell, while songs 'Sweet Country Calling', 'Draggin My Heels', & 'Thanks For The Memories' might have made decent singles being a bit more flowing than some of the melancholic ballads they seemed so obsessed with in the later seventies
overall I find both 1976 studio albums pretty good and the band seemed quite confident and united at that point with Clarke-Hicks-Sylvester enjoying a creative phase, if they had perhaps included a couple of solo Clarke & Sylvester songs (& a few lead vocals by Terry) it would have made the two albums even stronger
there were always some fine later tracks - 'Caracas','Crossfire', 'Burn Out' have their merits while 'Hello To Romance' and 'There's Always Goodbye' might have worked as single ballads if set among more uptempo rockin' singles over 1974 to 1978
The later 80's tracks had some quality material too - 'Laughter Turns To Tears' was a fine powering track with Clarke in good voice, as was 'Stand By Me'
'Shine Silently' had a glorious vocal intro by Clarke-Hicks-Coates on the 12 inch extended version unwisely edited off the 7 inch single version, and was a fine cover of the song
'Too Many Hearts Get Broken' was (I think) an attempt to go all Chicago/Foreigner-ish, with a big emo ballad, but (for me) the charmless repetitive drum machine sound was irritating...the live version recorded at the Magnum Centre, Irvine, Scotland, featuring Alan Coates' high harmony voice & Bobby Elliott's drumming sounded much better in my opinion
'Find Me A Family' is a decent Clarke-Benson song with strong vocal harmonies, while 'No Rules' employed a nifty guitar hook
'This is it' was a bit average with rather weak lyrics that an ageing Clarke sang well but looked a bit daft promoting on BBC's 'Wogan' show (an older guy rambling on about; 'drag you to a movie..' etc), it had some nice guitars tho'
'Reunion of The Heart' was o.k. if unspectacular (not sure why female backup singers were deemed better than Hollies harmonies, but it was an attempt to vary things a bit)
'Two Shadows' was a decent rock flavoured item, and if given a remix to reduce the absurdly excessive echo on Clarke's lead vocal the studio take of 'Purple Rain' was not bad at all
'Nothing Else But Love' also could benefit from a remix to bring up the very faint backing vocals
'Your Eyes' was a nice song which again featured tight harmony vocals by Clarke-Hicks-Coates
'Baby Come Back' I'm not mad on at all, sounding very 'tinny' and ultra dated (so '80's' !), the best bit for me is where Hicks guitar 'fires up' for a moment...only for trendy keyboards to then overtake it...
being a song for a cat ('Hollies Sing Kattomeat' ?) with a bloody daft video that didn't help (exploding wall behind Bobby's drumkit revealing a cat's face...as Clarke reveals; 'My Baby's a cat !'...yeah)
the song was cut in Germany with (I think) the writer guesting on vocals (Holgen Jurgen Popp or something like that - presumably another 'flavour of the month' figure ?) - it charted in Germany but proved somewhat embaressing when a fan produced it backstage for autograph....to Alan Coates & Ray Stiles surprise !! (seems they knew NOTHING about it at all...)
Tony's poignant 'Hillsborough' saw yet another rare Hicks lead vocal (that must be at least almost half a dozen now since 1963 !) - it was a moving nice if sad themed song
A proper compilation of the 'Post Sylvester era' tracks up to Allan Clarke's retirement from the band is really needed both to fill a gap in their recording history - where the unissued 'Hard To Forget' could finally get a belated release too - and to allow those latter Clarke era tracks proper recognition, most are a fair bit stronger than we often tend to think when a few just occasionally turn up towards the end of various compilations.
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Post by irelandcalling4 on Aug 1, 2015 20:55:56 GMT
As you mentioned gee, 'Sweet Country Calling', 'Draggin My Heels', & 'Thanks For The Memories' are three of my favourites from that year. I remember a review I read recently referred to 'Sweet Country Calling' as the great lost-single-chance; it's a great song, would have made a fine single! '48 Hour Parole' another one that really hits the mark.
Roulette and Write On I think are fine albums for the most part, though the following album did seem a lot less inspired. From what I have heard from the '79 album, its not great. Write On and Roulette do though contain quite a lot of strong material, I think they are on par with 'Hollies' (1974); some filler, but mostly worthy Hollies albums. Not as good as the late 60s/early 70s, but still very worthy.
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