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Post by cameron on Jul 9, 2015 4:28:17 GMT
No, this is not a dream, someone has managed to get hold of the mythical Hollies version! It doesn't sound anything like the released version, but it's nice all the same (and in studio quality too)...
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Post by cameron on Jul 9, 2015 4:49:22 GMT
I've listened to it a few times now. Firstly, a few people have suggested it's fake. To me, that IS Ron Richards, Graham Nash and Bobby Elliott talking at the beginning. The bass is very Bernie Calvert (and has that nice analogue tape sound), the drums are typically Bobby with his loose style snare drum that was creeping in around 1968. And that guitar style is typically Graham Nash - sort of half sloppy and a bit laboured sounding if you get what I mean. So I don't believe it to be fake.
Secondly, how the hell did this guy manage to score a copy?! It's in mono, so presumably he just quickly played the session tape back and got a basic mix?
It's a nice sounding version. It has the bones of being something great - akin to "Postcard" that kind of whimsical Nash style of writing.
Above all, I just can't believe we're hearing it after 47 years!! Christmas has well and truly come early!
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Post by cameron on Jul 9, 2015 6:16:28 GMT
I couldn't sleep and decided to do what I always thought the Hollies should do and sync Graham's acoustic demo with the backing track. I took his demo with David Crosby and Stephen Stills from the 'CSN Demos' set and synced it with the Hollies' backing track. Production note - in combining the two, the CSN demo version is in a lower key, so I had to transpose the Hollies' backing track as transposing Graham's demo made him sound like a mouse! The vocals are a little "tinny" because I had to do my best to remove the CSN guitar and Stephen Stills' bass as they were totally out of rhythm with the Hollies' track. I don't think it's a terrible first attempt, and it gives you an idea of the finished take... Listen HERE: soundcloud.com/theholliesrareandunreleased/marrakesh-express
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2015 6:55:19 GMT
Great job Cameron!
Perhaps someone here who knows him can send a link of the instrumental to Graham (& other members?) to ask if it's genuine? I'm pretty sure it is though!
Hope whoever "liberated" it has other stuff! Would be unbelievable to have a series of bootleg CDs of demos & alternate takes.
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Post by Gralto on Jul 9, 2015 7:31:48 GMT
Unbelievable!!!! Christmas DOES come more than once a year. This is definitely not a fake. The Hollies find of the year (SO FAR!!).
And Cameron - what an amazing job you've done on the sync up with the CSN demo. We are really lucky to have such an audio wiz on this board as you. Great job with your new version - I actually like the ghostliness of the vocal you've had to work with.
And...what an indictment this instrumental has never been reissued on a Hollies disc previously. The most famous Hollies outtake of all time and we are made to believe it's unreleasable, y'know, "move on please, nothing to hear here"?? Seriously, when will the compilers start listening to the fans? (and Gee, we appreciate the lengths you go to, to push for the release of these tracks - it's not a dig at you).
This track is completely acceptable in every way. Who cares if it didn't come with any vocals - every Hollies fan wanted to hear this, no matter how incomplete. And now we have. This is a magical Hollies day!
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Post by irelandcalling4 on Jul 9, 2015 11:06:26 GMT
That is amazing!! Of course this could have been released; the kind of people interested in session tapes and outtakes are primarily big fans of the group.
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Post by Stranger on Jul 9, 2015 11:06:46 GMT
Someone please save this in case it is taken down! I can't listen today!
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Post by irelandcalling4 on Jul 9, 2015 11:09:06 GMT
PS I have no idea about the world of Hollies bootlegs; the Rolling Stones for example of very heavily bootlegged, ditto Dylan, Neil Young, Springsteen, U2 - reams of session tapes and outtakes; is there much out there from Hollies sessions?
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Post by irelandcalling4 on Jul 9, 2015 11:10:34 GMT
Someone please save this in case it is taken down! I can't listen today! I hope so! This absolutely needs to be saved! This can eventually go on my itunes "Hollies '68" compilation album with pride of place; cannot wait to actually have a copy of this mythical track. And then tomorrow the 'Changin Times' set a-coming, great days to be a Hollies fan!
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Jan T
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Post by Jan T on Jul 9, 2015 11:42:04 GMT
It was wonderful, waking up to this news this morning, but the best part for me was hearing the job you did on the sync, Cameron. That is what I'm enjoying listening to most. Fabulous job! Yes, for anyone who is in touch with anyone from the band, they should hear this, especially those who were in the lineup at the time! Great stuff!
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Post by cameron on Jul 9, 2015 13:46:32 GMT
PS I have no idea about the world of Hollies bootlegs; the Rolling Stones for example of very heavily bootlegged, ditto Dylan, Neil Young, Springsteen, U2 - reams of session tapes and outtakes; is there much out there from Hollies sessions? There's NOTHING by the Hollies ever leaked, they actually own their own mastertapes unlike any other band and have done since 1966 so they've remained under lock and key. Bobby and Tony are in control now of what gets released as they still are the main share holders in "Hollies LTD" being the current longest serving members in the band. Traditionally, as a band member leaves, they exit "Hollies LTD" too. That makes this discovery all the more interesting - who was able to gain access to the Hollies' vault and make a quick copy? It's a mastertape to digital transfer - ie, not a "bootleg", does this mean that they're exploring the vault to see what could be released? What I do like about Hollies projects is that they're released in quick succession after being announced - note how "Changin' Times' was announced less than six weeks before it will be released. None of this "this set is coming in two years" like most bands (particularly the Small Faces, it felt like a miracle in itself when their boxset was finally released after nearly five years of promising it!), so if a project is underway, it'll be finished and going to press before we're told about it - but I'm not holding my breath... It's also interesting how everyone's always been dead against releasing it as "it sounds nothing like the official track". It's LOVELY! It's a great backing track and you can hear the song in there for sure. No shame in releasing it on a studio Beatles-anthology style set whatsoever. I've long hoped that the Hollies would issue a set utilising alternative takes, early takes, demos and abandoned songs. I'm yet to hear a bad one. Things like Man With No Expression, Schoolgirl and the Lewisham Odeon concert were confined to the vaults for "not being good enough and not worth releasing". They must think pretty highly of what they did release to confine gems like these to the vaults! The only bootlegs as such are vinyl transfers to CD - believe it or not, I reckon only about 90% of the Hollies' studio output has been committed to CD at some point, and something ridiculous like 50% or less is currently officially in print and available to buy. That's why I'm happy about Changin' Times as I've never got a copy of Confessions Of The Mind on CD as it almost went out of print as it went into print in 1999. CD copies are £30+ in some cases. Other bootlegs consist of live material. There's a few concerts like Stockholm '66 and certain German TV dates that are widely bootlegged in various qualities. There's plenty more to come though: a live date in 1964 that Bobby has, Japan 1968, Australia 1970, Australia 1971, America 1976.... have all been "leaked" at some point. Thanks Jan T I did it quite quickly this morning and I've noticed that I've accidentally omitted the third and fourth verses! I'll have to redo it in due course and sync it a bit better. I'll be pleased if I can clean up the vocals a bit too.
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Post by gee on Jul 9, 2015 15:52:52 GMT
Great News ! - this is what I meant when I said words to the effect of 'unless we hear otherwise' etc the other day - and now suddenly we HAVE !
(so never say never - the 1973 'Out On the Road' tracks should finally be getting an official release at last tomorrow !)
Tim Chacksfield told me 'Marrakesh' was totally 'unreleasable' some years back (tho' that has become a "standard reply" from EMI / The Hollies Limited whenever you ask them about ANYTHING I have noticed !)
I have asked about songs such as; 'Party Line', 'It's Raining Teardrops', 'Ashes To Ashes', 'You Were A Pretty Little Girl', 'Survival of the Fittest'(Nash), 'Wings' (Sylvester), Father Machine, Salvation Band, Heaven in Her Heart, On The Summer Side of Life', Get Up, an 'untitled' track, Is it True ?, I Don't Understand You' etc.......and of course 'Marrakesh Express'- but 'it's unreleasable' was the reply I got every time (more a case of 'unmixed & unmastered' I wonder ?)
incredible this has emerged - who got hold of it ? I agree with Cameron it seems they MIGHT be exploring the archive which might well explain this emerging now (?)
fingers crossed some rare songs get proper attention
wonder if Graham's original demo - his voice & guitar - will emerge too ?
Excellent attempt at the Nash vocal sync' Cameron !
- it's true the backing track (which IS alot more structured than I was led to believe !) is not that recognisable as the CSN hit version - but Steve Stills organ fills alter the whole atmosphere of the piece - remember the very different 'feel' of the two versions of 'Horses Through A Rainstorm' ?, The Hollies more strident, structured and 'singalong' style to the number compared to the more sublime CSN approach etc
same here The Hollies 'Marrakesh' with Graham's CSN vocal (carefully added by Cameron) establishing a clear melody to the piece - like finding a map of the song !' - suddenly 'makes sense' of the unrecognisable instrumentation that is 'chugging along' nicely !
it has the same carefree approach of 'Postcard', 'Away Away Away' & 'Relax' too - Nash not bothered at all about 'making a hit record' (tho' ironically he WAS) just stepping outside his segment on the dartboard and singing about taking that train to....(CSN & America it transpired)
The Hollies COULD have made that trip too (also later as on 'Distant Light' & 'Romany') but instead opted for commercial pop safety (tho' the other irony was 'Dylan' saw them being creative in a quite different way)
in view of the far better condition of the backing track it makes you wonder if EMI / Warners could not either properly sync up Nash's sixties demo vocal to it (?) - or even get him to come in and re-sing it (at least Graham would then end up having the last laugh over a few old dissenters !)
whatever IF Graham's original demo vocal could be properly combined to this backing track in the studio them maybe both the demo version and an attempted 'mix' of a Hollies take on 'Marrakesh' might be a real possibility ??
I rather like the happy 'chugging' guitar style of this aborted version actually - it's got 'Hollies charm' about it...!
All on Board...?
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Post by JamesT on Jul 9, 2015 20:00:53 GMT
Great sync, Cameron! I do hope this may indicate some trawling through the archives, behind the scenes.
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Post by cameron on Jul 9, 2015 21:07:38 GMT
I've always taken assumption that "unreleasable" means it only exists in session tape form. Amazingly, I got that same response when asking about the Lewisham Odeon concert - the version that was released was a slight fold down of the presumably original 1968 mix of vocals in the right, everything else on the left kind of mix. I think that was held back so long as the Hollies' weren't happy to release it.
I prefer the Hollies' backing track to the CSN version. Maybe because I've heard the CSN version a MILLION times since they've dined out on it since 1970. I'm attempting a re-sync of the track adding in the missing verses and stripping back the backing track a bit better. Listening it intently today, quite a lot of the phrasing is slightly out. But you wouldn't believe just how different the CSN demo and the Hollies backing track are! Totally the wrong speed, wrong rhythms and running at totally different speeds. It took a lot of effort just getting them to meet in the middle.
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Post by dirtyfaz on Jul 10, 2015 3:01:49 GMT
Pretty easy to get the YouTube clip downloaded. From there straightforward getting the audio from it.
Excellent job Cameron with your sync. Hopefully when you are finished playing with the sync you can make it available to us all.
On first hearing the instrumental track I could hear elements that made it clear it was Marrakesh Express.
One has to marvel at the fact that someone got it out of the studio.
I also agree with the "unreleasable" meaning not mixed from the session tapes.
In the early days the Hollies did knock over tracks pretty quickly with many songs being only a couple of takes. Some took more and were tried a few times. It would be interesting to hear the progression of the songs from take 1 to the best take. Lots of artists have had that done but I guess it has been after they died. None of the Nash and Sylvester era are dead. That could make it hard to get out. Usually the estate gets the stuff out afterwards. As they are still with us and my age is about theirs I guess I will be gone before anything comes out. A bit like Bobby's book.
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Post by cameron on Jul 11, 2015 10:01:11 GMT
I've always thought that the progression of how a track came together would be an interesting inclusion on a CD. Starting with the backing track and adding a bit each time. Even though they're referred to as being "one take specialists", that simply refers to the backing track. They'd run through a song two or three times and pick the best run through to create the "master" to which they'd overlay overdubs. These were everything bar the drums, bass and a guitar or two. It's these overdubs that took the time to record, sometimes hours when the master take would have been recorded in mere minutes.
There's still a lot of early versions floating around. Some unreleased and documented like early attempts at "Like Every Time Before", "Have You Ever Loved Somebody" and "Step Inside". Some are already released gems like the early version of "Try It" that snook out in 1968, who's to say there aren't other early versions of songs that we don't know about?
Plenty of scope for a Beatles Anthology style project.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2015 10:34:21 GMT
I wonder if the unreleased 1966 take of 'Like Every Time Before' has a similar arrangement to 'Tell Me To My Face', or did they only use that for The Everly Brothers' version (actually sung solo by Phil Everly)...
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Post by Stranger on Jul 12, 2015 12:15:20 GMT
I replied to the wrong thread on this previously! This is an amazing find as NOTHING from the Hollies ever leaks!
For Take 1 it seems like a very realised and somewhat rehearsed backing track so you'd imagine there would be a version with a guide vocal, unless, they didn't bother to record these earlier run-throughs. The quality is so good it is really at odds with the "unrecognisable backing track" we'd been told about for years.
Great job by Cameron synching up the vocal and it makes you wonder about what else is in the vaults!
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Post by Gralto on Nov 29, 2015 3:43:34 GMT
I note that the Youtube link to this has been removed. Any idea when this happened and what the story is?
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Post by dirtyfaz on Nov 29, 2015 6:15:22 GMT
Most likely the person who put it up there in the first place. Anyone know how long ago it was removed.
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Post by cameron on Nov 29, 2015 12:06:37 GMT
I noticed it gone a couple of months ago. The Hollies themselves or EMI probably pulled it. I had most of the tracks on my SoundCloud page removed by EMI even though none of them were available officially!
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Post by cameron on Nov 29, 2015 12:19:07 GMT
It was a master tape transfer, so someone had to have been digging at the Hollies tape vault in Hayes to get it, perhaps as part of an upcoming project. It wasn't an acetate or 50 year old demo tape is what I mean. The Hollies probably vetoed the track for inclusion in something upcoming (again!) and the sound guy thought that the fans would never get to hear it (people have been pushing to hear it for about 25 years now, since "Rarities" in 1988) so he let it slip on YouTube. The Hollies probably got annoyed and wanted it removed on copyright grounds or because they saw the fans positive reaction to it and saw it as leverage as a selling point of an up-coming release to include it. This is purely theoretical speculation though. As far as I know, there are no reissues or box sets planned. But having said that, Gee has gone very quiet who I know normally has a hand in these things, so who knows? Time will tell I guess.
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Post by Gralto on Nov 30, 2015 12:20:23 GMT
Thanks for the update Cameron. It's worth noting that a tape was compiled back in the 1980s of Hollies rarities that was given to a few people to have a listen. Marrakesh Express was on there from a listing I've seen. Perhaps it came from there? Anyway your comments suggest that Marrakesh Express was only up online for 2 or 3 months at best.
I will laugh if I see it on the very next Uk compile after all these years. It would be nice to hear a Nash vocal over the top of it whether recorded then thru CSN or now.
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Post by Stranger on Nov 30, 2015 14:07:16 GMT
I don't usually agree to adding new vocals to old backing tracks but this would be the perfect occasion to give Clarke, Hicks, Nash their swansong. Graham could sing lead his voice is still great, Tony on harmonies with help from Allan (who I'm sure could manage a studio session).
It would make a nice '60s/'10s hybrid track.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2015 15:09:56 GMT
There's nothing stopping any of you putting it back on YouTube.
I don't bother much with YouTube these days, but I did the same thing when the uploader of that 1966 TOTP clip (Bus Stop) took it down, within just a day or so of uploading it! Once it's in the public domain there's not much they can do about it.
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