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Post by JamesT on May 22, 2015 13:20:38 GMT
Such a shame that the remasters series ended with 'Another Night', but I think that may have been to do with EMI being bought. The 'Romany' and 'Hollies' discs were first class.
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Post by dirtyfaz on May 22, 2015 15:25:20 GMT
"In terms of rarities, maybe not the treasure trove that we experienced with the Clarke Hicks & Nash Years set - but it is worth remembering that this is a budget priced boxset and encompasses some hard to find on CD albums. It'll be a big tick on the list to get Out On The Road. I personally think they're purposely not tying up loose ends by filling these sets with rarities to allow for a remastered albums series (a la the Kinks, Small Faces, Who "Deluxe" editions) in the probably distant future. For now, these boxsets are a very welcome top gap to bring us all up to speed with the entire back catalogue. I'd think there's probably a plan to do another set (the aforementioned 1974-1983) in the next few years and then in ten years' time or so, reissue the entire back catalogue. With every release like this, it's more exposure for the Hollies and a growing fan base. "Most of the unreleased tracks from this period were issued on the remasters for the LPs in this time frame. "Ten years of so, to reissued the entire back catalogue" I am taking as a sarcastic comment cause most of us serious collectors since the original days will be dead. It will be only a few young ones like Cameron that will be still with us and maybe nobody from the band will be either.I like the reissue series like Kinks Small Faces Who etc Deluxe editions. Don't know if the Hollies have ever thought of that or put the idea to EMI. That is one logical step for Warners to gain some return for their money buying EMI.As I am getting to the age I am and also approx. the same for original band members I hope they and I are still alive. I am starting to wind down my purchases of any music so the guys need to get their act together. When they go do you think their heirs (Family) will care about what is made available.
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Post by cameron on May 22, 2015 17:16:55 GMT
There was an interview with Graham about CSN around the time of the LTAW DVD where he said "myself and Allan have had a meeting with Sony to discuss what to do with the Hollies' back catalogue - it would be nice to get it all in one place finally". That quote has stuck with me ever since he said it. Anyone knows that these remaster series are years in the making - the Beatles' remasters took nearly SEVEN years from conception to release. And they're a "high priority" for EMI. As much as it pains me to admit it, the Hollies aren't taken as seriously. Enough fans are crying out for these albums, something should be done really - but how does one go about setting the wheels in motion?
Who knows what the future has in store. This release has jumped out of nowhere. As did the Clarke Hicks & Nash Years set. I think only "Midas Touch" had any kind of decent advertising with a TV advert. Radio Fun had its exclusive previews via EMI's YouTube channel. But these great new releases are just announced to the fans and then little more is said. The reviews in specialist music magazines (like "Shindig!") usually don't come out until a good few weeks after the album has been released, indicating that no promos get sent out. We've heard nothing about this set until it was announced and suddenly it'll be here within six weeks - normally stuff like this is listed six months in advance to generate interest!
I'd say it's bad PR overall. But then again, "50 at 50" (nope, still not bought it!) was the first Hollies release since "30th Anniversary Collection" in 1993 to be released in America officially (ie, not an import) so perhaps they're on the right track... This Changin' Times set should sell well in the US based on the Hollies' popularity from 1970-1972 there.
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Post by Gralto on May 23, 2015 13:52:14 GMT
Assuming the tracklisting supplied by DavidM (welcome by the way - thanks for posting the info and joining the forum - great to have you here) is correct, well, this is just another missed opportunity to get some more rarities out there. It reeks of cheap, cheap, cheap.
Don't be fooled by the budget CD price - they have to be cheap these days. Nobody under the age of 30 buys CDs these days. My young adult nephews and nieces have been getting iTunes vouchers as birthday presents for years. Most young people - and I'm 44 so I'm not in that age group anymore - don't even own a CD player. So unless these tracks get released digitally, the music on this 5 CD set will only be purchased by us middle aged (and older) Hollies tragics. (sorry Cameron, I think you may be an anomaly here - just like I was in my twenties when I was the only person I knew into the 60s scene!)
So...if we are the target audience, why don't they actually include something we've never heard? Answer - it costs money. It costs money to remaster, it costs money for studio time to have the session tapes worked on (an hourly rate) and frankly, The Hollies don't want to spend that money. They almost never have and if not for Ron Furmanek's archival trawls back in the early 1990s, there would be virtually nothing of the interesting, behind the scenes material found on the USA 1993 3CD 30th Anniversary Collection.
As Dirty Faz has said, it will be interesting to see if they have remastered the Out On The Road tracks. They are really the only selling point for this set. Will I buy this set? Most likely though only for OOTR and I already have three copies of the thing on vinyl, so if it's a tight cash week, maybe not. I do look forward to Tony Hicks' comments in the booklet.
The point is - when us fans start saying "oh I don't want to criticise, I don't want to sound ungrateful for asking for absent outtakes", no actually, we should criticise. I bet all the regulars on this forum have EVERY SINGLE TRACK on this release bar (maybe) the OOTR songs. We are the people who keep buying these releases - it's places like this Hollies forum that spread the word and get the message out there and keep making money for the band. Why don't we start being given what we actually want? If the Clarke/Hicks/Nash 6CD set included unissued material - which was great to hear and have - then why should this set be any different? Oh that's right, I keep forgetting - we're that vocal minority that whinge about everything while the rest of the Hollies fans are just happy to buy another package with the same old tracks of the good old happy Hollies.
Bollocks.
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Post by JamesT on May 23, 2015 18:41:14 GMT
Good points Simon. I even seem to recall that the 2003 box set really missed the mark then, too. Personally, I have everything on the discs, so I'm hoping for a vast sonic overhaul of the OOTR tracks from the versions I have courtesy of Magic Records and Melody Boulevard. It's the kind of set which I'll probably keep in work as it covers my favourite period of the band, and I have everything in one place.
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Post by cameron on May 23, 2015 19:04:23 GMT
Are you having a bad day, Simon? lol. I do wholeheartedly agree with your comments though. I guess unlike any other 1960's bands (yes, even the Beatles), the Hollies own their own music. It's up to them to come up with new releases and pay for them.
When the Clarke Hicks & Nash Years set was released, there was some hold up with the CD. My Amazon pre-order arrived eight days after the release date and HMV didn't stock the CD for a further month. When the CD finally arrived, three out of the six disc were scratched beyond being playable. Despite sending off for another, I still got one disc that won't play and have heard dozens of reports from others experiencing the same thing. I bought the live Lewisham Odeon tracks on iTunes on the morning of release and spent the following month listening to them to death. To this day, I think the Lewisham Odeon set makes for great listening. The Hollies were always better live than in the studio - why are they not issuing more live material? I thought the three tracks from the stunning Stockholm 1966 set on the Long Road Home were stingy to say the least, when a full half hour set survives in great quality. I guess it boils down to paying for copyright (something wavered for the Long Road Home, due to its' abnormally high price) when the Hollies played a set largely consisting of covers. With each new recording from a band, new copyright has to be obtained, even if it's a live track. Hence the load of crappy re-recorded CDs that emerged in the 80's from the likes of Gerry & The Pacemakers, Dave Dee Dozy Beaky Mick & Tick and Hermans Hermits - a new recording of the same song by the same artist warrants new copyright: it was a way for them to take control of their music. I've heard rumours that Blowin' In The Wind, Stewball, Puff The Magic Dragon, Just One Look and even Stay could have been recorded at Lewisham Odeon - and eight tracks was never going to be enough for a live album - but to satisfy the budget CH&NY boxset, eight tracks were selected out of whatever was the full set- with the only cover in the set having already been released before, so copyright existed for it already. I mean, I've read dozens of press reports from the time about the Hollies touring with an orchestra and extending their set to 45 minutes! The eight tracks on CH&NY clock in at just over 20 minutes, so there MUST be more.
This "Changin' Times" I can abide by. Yes, I have everything on it already (twice, sometimes three times over in fact) but it's nice to get everything in one place. It will also be nice to get a mastertape copy of Out On The Road - the original Hansa LP is badly mastered and notoriously difficult to get a decent rip to CD. I also welcome reading Tony's take on that period for the band. But to go back to the original point, there's nothing on it for me to rush out to the shop and buy.
I don't know what we have to do to get the Hollies to follow suit of every other 60's artist and give their fans something special. Tony and Bobby are at the helm, no previous Hollie remains a part of "Hollies LTD", so it's up to them really. And they were firmly of the opinion that the Lewisham Odeon tapes should never see the light of day! (interview in "Shindig!" magazine, 2010) and Bobby also requested that the chatter be removed from the Radio Fun set (see the liner notes). That was a dream come true when it was announced; but it was quite a disappointment when it came out and remains the WORST compiled BBC set of any 60's artist that I've ever purchased. Erratic running order, severely clipped tracks, bad mastering throughout... more evidence to support Simon's claim of everything being done on the cheap. I played it once, copied it to my computer, put it in the correct order and burnt that to a CD. I've not touched the original since...
Here's the problem:
The Beatles - full remaster series of their UK and US back catalogue, three Anthologies of session takes and rare tracks, two BBC sets (four discs) Rolling Stones - full remaster series, various "rarities" albums over the years, countless live albums released both at the time as as recent as last year (THREE in fact in 2014) Kinks - full deluxe remaster series with rare tracks and outtakes (stunning remastering throughout too, better than the original LPs by a mile), complete BBC set (four discs), boxset for the fans (three discs) Small Faces - full deluxe remaster series with rare tracks and outtakes, exclusive limited edition boxset with three discs of new unreleased content, various vinyl reissues The Who - full deluxe remaster series with rare tracks and outtakes, various live albums and newly issued previously unreleased live albums Beach Boys - full remaster series, various studio boxsets just for the fans (Pet Sounds, SMiLE), recent four disc boxset of entirely new previously unreleased material
And the Hollies? - half an original album series that was purely a weak mastertape transfer (they gave up after Distant Light and all went out of print within a year), a couple more albums trickled out EIGHT YEARS later which were more than satisfactory in terms of the quality of the remaster and the rarities but we still don't have their remaining 70's output after Another Night officially from EMI. The only things that stick out for me are the 30th Anniversary Collection (which was nothing to do with "Hollies LTD" until they stepped in and vetoed half of Ron Furmaneks remixes!) and the Long Road Home boxset which unearthed some great rarities but also gave us the excellent book - although a lot of proposed rarities missed the cut. The Abbey Road series was also quite good for hardcore fans as a way of getting the original mono single mixes on CD. But really, in the 30 years since their decline in the charts, the Hollies haven't really satisfied the real hardcore fans we've stayed with them religiously. The odd "nice" compilation now and then (The Other Side Of The Hollies, Definitive Collection, Clarke Hicks & Nash Years, Changin' Times....) but when something new and worth running out and buying comes along (Rarities, Radio Fun...) it's usually quite badly put together and not as good as it could be - especially compared to their contemporaries.
As a die-hard fan who listens to the Hollies every day of my life - without fail - something new to keep me going every now and then is amazing. My other half has banned me from listening to the hits again (and again)!
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Post by cameron on May 23, 2015 19:11:41 GMT
And another thing that irks me every time I read it is Tony and Bobby's relentless adamancy that there's "nothing left in the vaults worth having". I've read it a few times now in various interviews. Perhaps new, unissued songs that are complete may be in short supply - but what about a Beatles style Anthology with alternate takes? Vastly different arrangements of songs have emerged (the two of "We're Through", "Magic Woman Touch" and even "Try It") so there must be others. There' also various early takes ("Have You Ever Loved Somebody" (1966), "Like Every Time Before" (1967), two remakes of "Sign Of The TImes" (1969/70), 1969 remake of "Wings", early take of "Survival Of The Fittest" with Nash on vocals...) that could be issued from the session tapes. Include all the humorous studio chatter between (like the brief bits on the Abbey Road series and 30th Anniversary Collection) and you have yourself an excellent compilation for the real fans. It doesn't have to be brand NEW, just DIFFERENT new.
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Post by JamesT on May 23, 2015 19:23:26 GMT
The first time I heard Distant Light was a CD from the BGO label in about '93 - 'muffled' beyond belief - was glad to get the '99 EMI digipak release, and before that, a US CD version.
I really do think that the best chance of getting any further rarities would be via a continuation/expansion of the individual album remasters. This would mean nipping back and doing pre-Romany and then picking up with Write On. It may happen, you never know.
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Post by dirtyfaz on May 24, 2015 13:50:07 GMT
Welcome back Gralto (Simon), been a while. That little Mitch must be absorbing a lot of your time or is it the Hawks. I know last night wasn't the Grand Final but at least we came to play this time.
Dunno if anyone has heard the new Hermans Hermits CD out on Bear Family. Ron Furmanek did that and it is excellent in the vein of the 30th Anniversay Hollies CD set that Ron Did. He does better that excellent work with the projects he gets involved in.
Bear Family have for many many years issued excellent box sets of many many different artists mostly from pre Beatles artists. These sets come in a 12" box, have outstanding booklets and the CDs have a wealth of unissued and alternate take from the artist.
If the sessions tapes for most of the Hollies recording sessions have been saved (I believe most have) then the availabilities of unreleased tracks is almost endless is someone is given the opportunity to access, listen and mix earlier takes than the finished take.
I get it with the non use of unreleased tracks on this set. Most have been used on the reissue series of the LP's. Maybe they feel by giving us OOTR that is a lot. Magic version isn't great but at least we had it if we wanted to purchase. Their bonus track were also from the relevant period. Then there is Rock n Beat, this sounds good but source wasn't good. It is and will alway be a bootleg label to me. They issue so much stuff from bands all over the world and most certainly didn't have any approval to use anything. The did just about everything from Vinyl. I have all their Hollies released just because I was one of these must have type of people. That is no longer the case as I don't know how many times I have Bus Stop and Stop Stop Stop and many other songs in my collection.
Just to finish off, sometimes we have to wait for the artists to be dead before this kind of stuff can be issued. Unfortunately the chances are that a lot of us serious collectors will be dead also. Kinda kills of the market doesn't it.
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Post by cameron on May 24, 2015 15:51:12 GMT
When you think of how swiftly and professionally the Hollies worked in the studio, perhaps there aren't various "outtakes" like with any other artist who turned up to the studio to work out what they were doing. The Hollies did experiment with sounds and arrangements, but the essence of the song was always there from the moment they walked into the studio as they always rehearsed it before to save studio time/costs. It just needs someone with a creative mind to work through the mastertapes. Perhaps a version of King Midas In Reverse just taking Graham's guitar and the three vocals - or even just the backing track with the orchestra. That kind of idea.
I made a post once about a Hollies session; showing how a track developed. That would be interesting. Something like Carrie Anne that was done all in one take and then the overdubs added. Backing track first, vocals second, additional percussion and guitars and finally the steel drums. Present that as an audio track showing how the Hollies built up tracks.
I know for a fact that there's a few alternative versions languishing in the vaults. There's early versions of Like Every Time Before, Have You Ever Loved Somebody, Step Inside, Too Young To Be Married, Survival Of The Fittest... that were either recorded and forgotten about/re-recorded or added to later. There's also a few peculiar takes of Stop! Stop! Stop! as they experimented with the Turkish theme. One acetate has been leaked with a faster tempo and a drone wit a slightly different bass part and sped up vocals. Look at the two released versions of Try It too - there must be others... and I believe all but about four of the Hollies session tapes have been saved. I think the Look Through Any Window one was famously destroyed. EMI had a clear out in the early 70's of stuff they deemed irrelevant keeping. Artists who'd fallen by the wayside like Freddie & The Dreamers, Gerry & The Pacemakers etc... just about lost everything. The Hollies were still at the top of their game in the early 1970's, so their stuff was either left alone or put up for deletion and saved by someone who knew what they were doing!
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Post by cameron on May 24, 2015 15:57:26 GMT
In addition to what Chris says, the market is waning. Hollies fans mostly grew up with them. There aren't that many who discovered them much later after their recording days with Allan Clarke as they've never stopped touring - they were sort of always around. Sadly I wasn't around - or shall we say not interested in the Hollies at that point - when most of these bootlegs were issued. There's some cracking bootlegs about of rarities and concerts that are no longer traded as people got them years ago, they've come and gone and no one has anything left to trade! So for me, getting these things officially is really important. When you're a relative newcomer to the scene, it's hard trying to build up a collection. The only reason I'm especially interested in the Changin' Times set is because I can't find Hollies Sing Hollies or Confessions Of The Mind on CD for less than £30!
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Post by moorlock2003 on May 27, 2015 2:08:08 GMT
I am hoping that the out on the road remaster will be a wow. Would like to hear it with more clarity than what the original vinyl offers.
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Post by moorlock2003 on May 27, 2015 2:16:52 GMT
On the subject of live concerts it does seem odd that for a band that has done live shows for 5 decades there is no live concert from their heyday. The 76 live album was a bit too late. At least there are some good live videos on YouTube especially the 66 German TV show and the 72/3 in concert.
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Post by dirtyfaz on May 27, 2015 7:27:20 GMT
The track listing for this is up on Amazon UK now. The first four discs use previously mastered tracks. The 5th disc contains: Disc: 5 1. Witchy Woman (2007 Remastered Version) 2. Slow Down (2007 Remastered Version) 3. Won't You Feel Good That Morning (2007 Remastered Version) 4. If It Wasn't For The Reason That I Love You 5. Don't Leave The Child Alone (2014 Remastered Version) 6. They Don't Realise I'm Down (2014 Remastered Version) 7. Transatlantic Westbound Jet (2014 Remastered Version) 8. Nearer To You (2014 Remastered Version) 9. Pick Up The Pieces (2014 Remastered Version) 10. Slow Down - Go Down (2014 Remastered Version) 11. The Last Wind (2014 Remastered Version) 12. A Better Place (2014 Remastered Version) 13. Mr Heartbreaker (2014 Remastered Version) 14. Out On The Road (2014 Remastered Version) 15. I Was Born A Man (2014 Remastered Version) 16. I Had A Dream (2003 Remastered Version) As we can see the only new remasters on this disc are the OOTR tracks. This will be interesting.
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Post by dirtyfaz on May 27, 2015 8:33:51 GMT
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Post by JamesT on May 27, 2015 18:27:14 GMT
I have the Magic Records version of OOTR and also a copy of a 'Melody Boulevard' CD of it. The latter is the best, but even the slightly cleaner example of 'Mr Heartbreaker' on Terry Sylvester's 'Complete Works' disc needs work. Hoping for a nice, crisp remaster removing the distortion etc I've gotten used to with the versions I have! I didn't even know 'Slow Down Go Down' had a banjo part to it until relatively recently!
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Post by JamesT on Jun 9, 2015 16:24:16 GMT
Interesting times indeed. Quite an odd release day - a Friday - Amazon are supposed to be delivering it that day after being dispatched on the Wednesday.
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Post by cameron on Jun 10, 2015 8:29:26 GMT
There is a website quoting that Tony Hicks is providing the write up for the booklet! I really hope that this is the case...
I think we've learnt in the past that "not releasable" usually means that the song only exists in four/eight/sixteen track form and needs a day or so of studio time spent mixing it to stereo and then the lengthy process of mastering can begin. Then there's the issue of setting up/acquiring copyright too when the song isn't credited to the Hollies themselves. All in all, it could cost THOUSANDS just for one track. And to be honest, some previous rarities have been done on the cheap (like for the Clarke Hicks & Nash Years set) and the mastering is appalling. Take the first stereo versions of We're Alive and Kill Me Quick are so overly compressed and 'loud' that they distort beyond belief. Same story for pretty much all of those 2011 remasters done for the set. And the Lewisham Odeon concert was a half fold down of a "vocals in the right, everything else in the left" mix that was produced in 1968 and culled at the last minute. Ideally, they should have gone back to the master tape and re-done the stereo mix but that is more cost and time...
I'm really glad of this new Changin' Times set as I'm missing Hollies Sing Hollies and Confessions Of The Mind on CD officially and also it'll be nice to finally get Out On The Road. So it's fulfilled it's purpose for me. Like Gee mentions, if it sells well, it might make Warner interested in pushing the Hollies further but I think it'll be at least ten years or so until we see anything of real interest.
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Post by JamesT on Jul 9, 2015 20:08:35 GMT
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Post by JamesT on Jul 10, 2015 10:15:21 GMT
Well, it's arrived! Gave the OOTR tracks a spin - much better quality. Superb to have about 16 years after first hearing them. A nice set to have and congratulations and thanks to all involved! And yes, Geoff, odd that there's no mention on the official site.
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Post by Stranger on Jul 10, 2015 20:49:45 GMT
Wow, very surprised at how coherent this track is and how good it sounds. I thought it would be 30 seconds of indistinct tuning from all the comments about it over the years.
Someone should pass this on to Graham. I wonder has the uploader got any other gems in his possession?
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Post by cameron on Jul 11, 2015 9:52:53 GMT
I've had to re-order it as Amazon forgot my card details! Took out a free trial of Amazon Prime so it's here by tomorrow lol.
Can anyone confirm - are the liner notes really written by Tony Hicks?
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Post by JamesT on Jul 11, 2015 10:45:09 GMT
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2015 13:24:22 GMT
Is he still dismissing the Rickfors era as "bland"?
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Post by JamesT on Jul 11, 2015 17:31:16 GMT
Romany sessions: '...now I was feeling weary and the sense of fun was ebbing away'.
OOTR sessions: 'Now the band was more comfortable and relaxed in the studio and, as you can hear, there are some very fine tracks on there.'
I don't know what it is (and indeed if others will agree with me, particularly those who have a knowledge of drumming, which I don't) that the OOTR tracks feature a more 'basic' Bobby.
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