Hollies in Oz in Sydney

[dirtyfaz]

Have been holding off passing any comment on the Hollies at the State Theatre in Sydney. I have decided not to pass my opinion of the night.

[Deleted]

Feb 18, 2014 9:24:26 GMT dirtyfaz said:

Have been holding off passing any comment on the Hollies at the State Theatre in Sydney. I have decided not to pass my opinion of the night.

Too late, you've made us all curious now!  

Surely we all know what to expect by now after nearly a decade of this line-up? 

[stuball]

Feb 18, 2014 9:24:26 GMT dirtyfaz said:

Have been holding off passing any comment on the Hollies at the State Theatre in Sydney. I have decided not to pass my opinion of the night.

You teaser you! Okay, I'll bite. It's either:

A)  They're not The Hollies of old but, we're so lucky to still have them around.

B)  A royal ripoff of my time and money.

C)  What a fabulous concert and I even got to meet Tony.

D)  Please cease and desist while I still have respect for The Hollies name.

Judging by your post, I'll go with B. Anyone else with a guess?

[Tony Wilkinson]

Guess it would be B or D......albeit about 12 years too late.........................!!!

[christocello]

Well, not to be unfair - the current group named "Hollies" consists of technically and musically extremely skilled musicians, and their music making displays a very high craftsmanship. They even seem to be very versatile, in fact they try to cover the whole "Hollies" cataloge, instead of playing just the 20 greatest hits from 63-74. Moreover, their last CD is a high quality product, too. Personally I always thought Peter Howarth to be a somehow non-charismatic and (so to say) sterile frontman. But after having listened to his latest CD(EP) on which he sings "He ain't heavy" - and having watched the live-video on ytube - my estimation of him as an artist has grown a lot. But, all in all - I can't find any Hollies "Magic" in the group's performances......but where should it come from?

[Deleted]

Feb 18, 2014 17:00:19 GMT christocello said:

But, all in all - I can't find any Hollies "Magic" in the group's performances......but where should it come from?

Good question.  Did it leave with Allan?  Or with Carl and Alan (Coates)?  I guess some might claim it left with Terry and Bernie, or even with Graham (certainly the dynamics changed when he left). 


I do agree that they need a more distinctive and charismatic front man though, and perhaps ease back on the keyboards that have been all-too-prominent since the early 80s.  

[anthony]

Feb 18, 2014 9:24:26 GMT dirtyfaz said:

Have been holding off passing any comment on the Hollies at the State Theatre in Sydney. I have decided not to pass my opinion of the night.

Ok I'm off to see the Hollies here in Melbourne tonight, "shock horror" I'm really looking forward to the show, saw the group 4 times last year and enjoyed every show. The only down part was Stewball, always felt they could have put in a better number. Now Peter in no way sounds like Allan, but sadly in the later years of his time with the band did he, I have heard some really bad reports of Allan's singing, I have even heard recordings and believe me they are shocking. I also believe they struggled to fill Concert Halls in the UK. Was Allan pushed or did he go, who will ever know. Carl Wayne came into the Hollies and did a great jobs, fans came out of the wood work, saw him in Australia back in 2001, Carl was a great showman strong personality, strong voice but to me it was more like Carl Wayne and the Hollies. Now with this later line up I feel the harmonies are spot on, I love the fact Tony gets to sing a few songs, I'm still amazed at his guitar solo in Too Young To Be Married, I love the groups selection of numbers, pleased Hey Willy is back in the set. I always believe if people don't like what they see they will stop going and then that will be the end of the band. How many Groups around from the 60's still sound good and have almost the original line up, we have two groups that call themselves the Searches, two HH, Peter Noone's version and the drummers version, Gerry and no original pacemakers, the stones still have three original members, I don't think Mick has a great voice but the stones have a great sound. In the end I believe the Hollies put on a great show, I still enjoy seeing them live, the music lives on.

One last thought, I don't care if people like or don't like this line up, all I know I do and that all that matters.

[dirtyfaz]

I had written more about the performance on Saturday night but after reading it a couple of time I though, maybe I shouldn’t be so negative. After all The Hollies are my favourite band.

I liked Stuball's approach. My response to that is mostly A. The performance was a bit robotic and sterile. Sound mix was average in the first half but got better in the second. No soaring harmonies like with Nash or Sylvester.

I revisited the old Elevated Observations site to see what I had sald 12 month ago about their 2013 tour and the below quote is from them.

“Saw the Hollies tonight at the State Theatre here in Sydney. I left the concert thinking I had just witnessed a Hollies tribute band. The playing and singing were good and Tony and Bobby were there. The harmonies didn't soar like they did with Nash/Sylvester. I also thought the sound mix was only average tonight. Wasn't much bass cutting through the mix and the drumming could have been mixed louder. On some songs Bobby's drumming cut through but on other all I seemed to be able to hear was the kick.

I have seen all versions of the Hollies except the Nash version as he didn't come to Australia with them. Have seen each version many times except the Rickfors version and I only saw them once. This is the first time for this version of the band and I left the concert wondering when the excitement was going to happen. I thought the audience was very laid back.”

That says is all.

I went with a group of friends who know of the Hollies but are not anal like me but had similar feelings to me of what they had just witnessed. There was a lot more crowd involvement this year though. I sort of guess I am a little analitical of performances as they are going on. Guess that could take from my enjoyment.

I must say that as a bunch of musicians they are above excellent. All are very very good players. Peter is an excellent singer. I like christocello's comments in an earlier post. That just about sums up my feelings.

Will I see them if they every return to Australia or I am overseas and have the opportunity, Yes I Will.

[anthony]

Feb 18, 2014 22:36:41 GMT dirtyfaz said:

I had written more about the performance on Saturday night but after reading it a couple of time I though, maybe I shouldn’t be so negative. After all The Hollies are my favourite band.

I liked Stuball's approach. My response to that is mostly A. The performance was a bit robotic and sterile. Sound mix was average in the first half but got better in the second. No soaring harmonies like with Nash or Sylvester.

I revisited the old Elevated Observations site to see what I had sald 12 month ago about their 2013 tour and the below quote is from them.

“Saw the Hollies tonight at the State Theatre here in Sydney. I left the concert thinking I had just witnessed a Hollies tribute band. The playing and singing were good and Tony and Bobby were there. The harmonies didn't soar like they did with Nash/Sylvester. I also thought the sound mix was only average tonight. Wasn't much bass cutting through the mix and the drumming could have been mixed louder. On some songs Bobby's drumming cut through but on other all I seemed to be able to hear was the kick.

I have seen all versions of the Hollies except the Nash version as he didn't come to Australia with them. Have seen each version many times except the Rickfors version and I only saw them once. This is the first time for this version of the band and I left the concert wondering when the excitement was going to happen. I thought the audience was very laid back.”

That says is all.

I went with a group of friends who know of the Hollies but are not anal like me but had similar feelings to me of what they had just witnessed. There was a lot more crowd involvement this year though. I sort of guess I am a little analitical of performances as they are going on. Guess that could take from my enjoyment.

I must say that as a bunch of musicians they are above excellent. All are very very good players. Peter is an excellent singer. I like christocello's comments in an earlier post. That just about sums up my feelings.

Will I see them if they every return to Australia or I am overseas and have the opportunity, Yes I Will.

Nice to hear your thoughts,

[gee]

I think it boils down to DO WE WANT any 'Hollies' line up performing at all...?

and clearly many people DO, and some are now fans OF the current version of the band having got into The Hollies since Peter & Steve came in ten years ago in August this year ....

We know that the 'Classic' Hollies were 'history' very  probably when Sylvester & Calvert left in 1981 , for some it was never the same after 1968 when Nash left, but I'd say at least SOME semblance of the 'Classic Hollies' sound was there up until the mid eighties as the vocal team of Clarke-Hicks-Coates sounded strong & alot like the sixties line up, but after 1986 sadly in truth Clarke began to struggle vocally, maybe not every concert at first  but certainly by 1987 Clarkey's voice was going fast, I heard him 'crack up' totally during 'Soldier's Song' in 1987 (at the line 'When the Dice of war...') at which Hicks & Coates stepped up and joined in to save it...

In truth the live act was going downhill thereafter, songs had to be dropped as Clarkey could no longer sing them ('Soldier's Song', 'Purple Rain' were two) and they had to change the key of songs (plus some 'taped' vocals were used I suspected), Ray Stiles vocally underpinned Clarkey's leads (it must be said to no gratitude other than being called 'formerly a piece of Mud' by Allan !)

Carl Wayne saved them but it was always 'The Hollies with Special Guest: Carl Wayne' really as Carl didn't blend with them as such but was more a star soloist fronting them I felt...but he DID save them as a live act & reopened closed doors overseas (plus a good number of UK venues whose managers were 'miffed' with Allan Clarke !)

Don't quote me but I've heard Tony as 'band manger' finally advised Allan he HAD to 'retire' (we all knew it if you saw those latter 80's concerts)

Carl's shock sudden demise (he kept just how really ill he was from them so I believe) plus the curious departure of Alan Coates was a massive double blow vocally...

HAD Alan Coates remained I do wonder what a Howarth-Hicks-Coates vocal sound might have been...? (Coatsey WAS in the first group publicity photo with Peter Howarth)

some may dislike Peter as a Lead singer, but the LACK of 'soaring' Nash/Sylvester/Coates harmonies in their vocal sound might be more down to the high harmony singer than the lead singer...yes ?

Steve Lauri is a fine singer and strong gutarist (his solo album 'At Last' is pretty good), but to me his high harmony vocal which is more a falsetto vocal is not in the Nash/Sylvester league (Coates at least had a 'Nash like' sound)

let's not be too harsh on Steve Lauri as he DOES make a strong contribution otherwise, and bear in mind that Nash & Sylvester don't have the same voices now that they had when younger, Nash still sounds fine in CSN's gentler singalong harmonies, but his voice is not as strong as in his heyday, while the last youtube postings I heard of Terry Sylvester's once angelic sweet high harmony voice....sadly sounded 'dead rough' (to me) - but hang on these guys are 'getting on' a good bit now let's remember.... ! 

The last studio album showed better promise for the current Hollies, most notably the tighter harmonies on 'Too Much Too Soon', 'One Way Ticket' etc, plus the more adventurous 'She'd Kill for Me' as 80's style pop was dropped for a rockier approach, with REAL Bobby Elliott drums making a vast improvement to the instrumental sound, 'toughening them up' again just  as Bobby had first done way back in 1963 on 'Stay'...

also Tony's guitar/sitar made a welcome return too for 'One Touch' and that live album saw them do 'Look Through Any Window' in a more 'Lynyrd Skynyrd' rock style trying to modernise the act

I feel the very "poppish" sixties hit songs like 'Yes I Will', 'Jennifer Eccles', Sorry Suzanne' etc - all long dropped by even the Clarke-Sylvester Hollies in 1976 - probably ought to be rested now, maybe a few more contemporary album tracks like; 'If You See Her', 'One Touch' etc could be added to 'Weakness', 'She'd Kill For Me',  plus a couple more seventies Hollies album tracks to make it say 60% classic hits & 40% album tracks (seventies & now) getting a little bit less 'Tribute Band' or nostalgia act etc while doing enough hits/songs the wider public would want & expect to hear.

Besides maybe doing the big hit;'Just One Look' I'd make the live show essentially a "1965 onwards" thing now....we don't need very early songs like; 'Searchin', 'Stay', 'Here I Go Again', 'We're Through' etc....still sung over and over...

not when SO MANY fine songs are NEVER performed live, they had dropped alot of the earlier sixties songs themselves by 1974-75....

I think I'd rather have the current Hollies than NO Hollies at all recording & performing today
(God knows there's not much about now of any great interest groups wise ...is there ?)

...while if the 'Classic Hollies' of Clarke with Nash/Sylvester/ Coates..plus the Rickfors Hollies are your preference well there's plenty of recorded music by each of those line ups around

An 80's era essentially 'Clarke-Hicks-Coates' line up CD compilation from 1981 to 1993 would be nice & fill a notable gap in their history - I HAVE suggested it to EMI as about 22 or so tracks studio & live could be assembled into an interesting CD collection...yes ?

when you look at the other famous groups - The Stones are just a Live act now, The Moody Blues have (sadly) become a non recording self 'tribute band', various Searchers & Hermits line ups tour, The Who now a non recording duo with backing concert band...while others are entrenched in 'Silver Sixties' or 'seventies' etc nostalgia packages...

Compared to that, while not having as big a concert draw as the likes of The Rolling Stones, The Hollies at least a current incarnation, as a performing group with their own show putting out occasional albums have probably survived better than many other famous outfits, from the sixties to the eighties.

[Deleted]

Feb 20, 2014 16:39:51 GMT gee said:

HAD Alan Coates remained I do wonder what a Howarth-Hicks-Coates vocal sound might have been...? (Coatsey WAS in the first group publicity photo with Peter Howarth)

Can you (or someone) post this? I don't think I've seen it.

[anthony]

there you go.

[anthony]

Feb 20, 2014 16:39:51 GMT gee said:

I think it boils down to DO WE WANT any 'Hollies' line up performing at all...?

and clearly many people DO, and some are now fans OF the current version of the band having got into The Hollies since Peter & Steve came in ten years ago in August this year ....

We know that the 'Classic' Hollies were 'history' very  probably when Sylvester & Calvert left in 1981 , for some it was never the same after 1968 when Nash left, but I'd say at least SOME semblance of the 'Classic Hollies' sound was there up until the mid eighties as the vocal team of Clarke-Hicks-Coates sounded strong & alot like the sixties line up, but after 1986 sadly in truth Clarke began to struggle vocally, maybe not every concert at first  but certainly by 1987 Clarkey's voice was going fast, I heard him 'crack up' totally during 'Soldier's Song' in 1987 (at the line 'When the Dice of war...') at which Hicks & Coates stepped up and joined in to save it...

In truth the live act was going downhill thereafter, songs had to be dropped as Clarkey could no longer sing them ('Soldier's Song', 'Purple Rain' were two) and they had to change the key of songs (plus some 'taped' vocals were used I suspected), Ray Stiles vocally underpinned Clarkey's leads (it must be said to no gratitude other than being called 'formerly a piece of Mud' by Allan !)

Carl Wayne saved them but it was always 'The Hollies with Special Guest: Carl Wayne' really as Carl didn't blend with them as such but was more a star soloist fronting them I felt...but he DID save them as a live act & reopened closed doors overseas (plus a good number of UK venues whose managers were 'miffed' with Allan Clarke !)

Don't quote me but I've heard Tony as 'band manger' finally advised Allan he HAD to 'retire' (we all knew it if you saw those latter 80's concerts)

Carl's shock sudden demise (he kept just how really ill he was from them so I believe) plus the curious departure of Alan Coates was a massive double blow vocally...

HAD Alan Coates remained I do wonder what a Howarth-Hicks-Coates vocal sound might have been...? (Coatsey WAS in the first group publicity photo with Peter Howarth)

some may dislike Peter as a Lead singer, but the LACK of 'soaring' Nash/Sylvester/Coates harmonies in their vocal sound might be more down to the high harmony singer than the lead singer...yes ?

Steve Lauri is a fine singer and strong gutarist (his solo album 'At Last' is pretty good), but to me his high harmony vocal which is more a falsetto vocal is not in the Nash/Sylvester league (Coates at least had a 'Nash like' sound)

let's not be too harsh on Steve Lauri as he DOES make a strong contribution otherwise, and bear in mind that Nash & Sylvester don't have the same voices now that they had when younger, Nash still sounds fine in CSN's gentler singalong harmonies, but his voice is not as strong as in his heyday, while the last youtube postings I heard of Terry Sylvester's once angelic sweet high harmony voice....sadly sounded 'dead rough' (to me) - but hang on these guys are 'getting on' a good bit now let's remember.... ! 

The last studio album showed better promise for the current Hollies, most notably the tighter harmonies on 'Too Much Too Soon', 'One Way Ticket' etc, plus the more adventurous 'She'd Kill for Me' as 80's style pop was dropped for a rockier approach, with REAL Bobby Elliott drums making a vast improvement to the instrumental sound, 'toughening them up' again just  as Bobby had first done way back in August 1963 on 'Stay'...

also Tony's guitar/sitar made a welcome return too for 'One Touch' and that live album saw them do 'Look Through Any Window' in a more 'Lynyrd Skynyrd' rock style trying to modernise the act

I feel the very "poppish" sixties hit songs like 'Yes I Will', 'Jennifer Eccles', Sorry Suzanne' etc - all long dropped by even the Clarke-Sylvester Hollies in 1976 - probably ought to be rested now, maybe a few more contemporary album tracks like; 'If You See Her', 'One Touch' etc could be added to 'Weakness', 'She'd Kill For Me',  plus a couple more seventies Hollies album tracks to make it say 60% classic hits & 40% album tracks (seventies & now) getting a little bit less 'Tribute Band' or nostalgia act etc while doing enough hits/songs the wider public would want & expect to hear.

Besides maybe doing the big hit;'Just One Look' I'd make the live show essentially a "1965 onwards" thing now....we don't need very early songs like; 'Searchin', 'Stay', 'Here I Go Again', 'We're Through' etc....still sung over and over...

not when SO MANY fine songs are NEVER performed live, they had dropped alot of the earlier sixties songs themselves by 1974-75....

I think I'd rather have the current Hollies than NO Hollies at all recording & performing today
(God knows there's not much about now of any great interest groups wise ...is there ?)

...while if the 'Classic Hollies' of Clarke with Nash/Sylvester/ Coates..plus the Rickfors Hollies are your preference well there's plenty of recorded music by each of those line ups around

An 80's era essentially 'Clarke-Hicks-Coates' line up CD compilation from 1981 to 1993 would be nice & fill a notable gap in their history - I HAVE suggested it to EMI as about 22 or so tracks studio & live could be assembled into an interesting CD collection...yes ?

when you look at the other famous groups - The Stones are just a Live act now, The Moody Blues have (sadly) become a non recording self 'tribute band', various Searchers & Hermits line ups tour, The Who now a non recording duo with backing concert band...while others are entrenched in 'Silver Sixties' or 'seventies' etc nostalgia packages...

Compared to that, while not having as big a concert draw as the likes of The Rolling Stones, The Hollies at least a current incarnation, as a performing group with their own show putting out occasional albums have probably survived better than many other famous outfits, from the sixties to the eighties.

I agree with what you say Gee, Funny I'm a big Beatles fan, always loved their music, everything about the group, but I don't belong to any Beatles web sites as I feel that time has past and you can't really add to what was from that wonderful era. The fact I can go and see the Hollies still, Tony and Bobby are both still there and the group plays all the songs I love, how good is that. This tour they played Hey Willy, loved hearing that live.

[Deleted]

Thanks for the pic! Shame Alan didn't stay, I always liked his contributions to the stage show (he did a fine version of 'Butterfly' in 1999). He sure did age between 1988 (TOTPs) and 2004 though...

[johnt]

For those who do not know, this is what Alan Coates is up to these days:

www.sohosquarestudios.com/alancoates.html

[gee]

Re 'Hey Willy' - despite being an Allan Clarke song (written with the two Rogers Cook-Greenaway) they very rarely if ever performed it live with Allan, and I was surprised to hear them do it later in the current Hollies concerts...!
(and do it really well too !)

I remember that Peter was 'pointing his finger at the camera' in that 2004 publicity shot - it was the first time I (& most of us) ever saw his face !

Re Alan Coates 'look' - yes it seemed that he suddenly lost his hair in the 90's - in 1984 I first saw him in concert with them and he had a headful of thick dark hair....and still did in 1988 but by the end of the following decade he'd lost it...!

While Bobby wore cap then a 'sensible' blonde hairpiece circa 'Sing Hollies' (why didn't he keep it ? duly turning it grey over time, by now no one would think anything of it - like Allan Clarke later did !)

Bernie Calvert too around 1972 might have been wiser to do that, with a sensible hair piece  instead of opting for the dreaded 'grow it longer and sweep over' look he chose that just got worse & worse over the seventies until he could no longer hide his thinning look by 'Hollies Live Hits' & 'A Crazy Steal' covers ....surely they were wealthy enough to do that...?
 (as Clarkey wisely later did)

re the younger Alan Coates being a 'front line' member it looked all the more noticeable than either Bobby or Bernie - and him being a younger band member in a group trying to still look 'contemporary' by the 90's I do think it was important in the entertainment industry even if in 'real life' it's of no matter at all...

musically 'long time Hollie' (doing a total of about 24 years service from summer 1981 to summer 2004 - he's on 'Archive Alive'/ 'Reunion' live album with Graham Nash playing backup guitar) the likeable Alan Coates departure was a pity too as he had a decent 'soaring' Nash like high harmony voice (notably on tracks; 'Shine Silently', 'Find Me A Family', 'Stand By Me', 'Your Eyes', 'The Woman I Love',etc) & sang 'Butterfly' & 'On A Carousel' in concerts really well for them besides playing strong co-lead guitar (the live 'Purple Rain') .....

...and judging by his songs such as; 'Reasons To Believe In' on Clarkey's final solo album, Alan Coates was certainly a strong songwriter too - surely Clarke, Clarke-Benson, Hicks (alone & with son Paul Hicks) , & Coates  COULD have penned an album's worth of strong original material for the Hollies over the 80's & 90's ...?

with Alan Coates on high harmony vocal & guitar alongside Allan Clarke's lead vocals the rockier 'Reasons To Believe In' sounds very 'Hollies-ish' indeed  and indicates how the 80's/90's Hollies might have gone...(??)

Steve Lauri of course has made a fine contribution for them but I can't help feel that had it been a vocal harmony team of 'Howarth-Hicks-Coates' the overall vocal sound would have been closer to the older versions of The Hollies with more of a 'soaring' harmony sound...

I was told at the time that Alan Coates & his second wife singer/writer/actress Kim Goody (who in the seventies was in episodes of 'The Professionals' & 'Return of The Saint' TV shows) got a lucrative job offer with the BBC to write and record music for TV projects - an offer 'too good to refuse' but it was very time consuming and he could not be a 'Hollie' doing the tours plus take this offer....so he handed in his resignation with Tony and Bobby's full understanding and agreement - no acrimony at all (so I was told) - clearly this later developed into the Soho Square Studios they both are now directors of...(as per the above link posted by John)

- thus like when Terry and then Bernie both departed in 1981 they could do one big reorganisation and start afresh - tho' changing both lead and high harmony singer together had never been done before, thus their vocal sound altered dramatically - even more so than when Sylvester replaced Nash in 1969 (with lead singer/lower harmony voices unchanged) or more notably when Rickfors & later Wayne took over from Clarke (when in both cases the 'harmony singers' remained constant)

While Alan Coates apparently was not on 'How Do I Survive ?' (Carl, Tony & Ray doing the vocals) which might be significant re Coates 'other projects' work it looks, from that first group publicity photo in 2004 with Peter, that they clearly originally had intended to continue on with Alan Coates in the band alongside Peter Howarth and Tony Hicks on vocals, so the biggest vocal shake up in one group personnel  change they ever did was dictated to them by circumstances rather than their decision... 
 
I think the (enforced) radical change of both lead and high harmony singers in summer 2004 was too much for some people...but had Alan Coates still been there doing 'Nash like' high harmony more 'in The Hollies Style' maybe it would have been more acceptable to some ?

that's no 'dig' at Steve Lauri of course just a thought....

[dirtyfaz]

I'm not sure but didn't Steve sing lead on "Hey Willy". Anthony, any help here.
Interesting concept Gee re songs to perform. My partner was keeping count of songs she didn't know (knida strange as I play Hollies music a lot with her around) and it was kind of a running joke during the show. During Stay she said to me that doesn't sound like Jackson Browne and the words are wrong. I thought that was amusing.
There have been lots of valid points by everyone re different eras/members.
On stage during the show there were many configuration changes depending on the song being done. Sometime Peter wasn't on stage while someone else sang lead.
At one time during the show Bobby came to the front as they were talking about his diarys and he mentioned about there first tour here and being at Chequers nightclub. I went to 2 shows there, and had the band sign Hollies Sing Hollies lp for me.
They have so many tunes to pick from, trying to keep everyone happy with what they play isn't an easy task. At shows like this I guess the majority of people come to hear the hits and maybe a couple of new tunes.
I've had a bit more time to reflect on the show. Yeah they did lots of songs I like but I still keep getting the feeling there was no soul in the performance.
It was interesting watching Steve play up to a lady at the end of the front row on his side though. Went on for a large part of the show.

[malco]

Steve indeed sang lead vocals on Hey Willy in Wollongong so it would have been the same in Sydney