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Post by eric on Aug 20, 2020 20:57:58 GMT
I think The Shadows rank along with Beatles and Hollies as the most successful and influential of the sixties EMI bands - and they enjoyed a successful later seventies comeback with a no.1 UK album in 1977 and 1979 The Shadows were incredibly successful and influential in Australia. On my local Adelaide chart, The Shadows had 20 Top 40 entries from “Apache” in October 1960 to “Bombay Duck” in June 1967. They finished on a high note with “Bombay Duck” reaching No. 3 on the chart. Amazingly, they had 14 consecutive Top 10 hits from “Apache” to “Theme For Young Lovers” in November 1964. Hank Marvin now lives in Perth, Australia and is active in the Perth music scene (or was pre Covid-19).
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2020 7:32:41 GMT
And today, what compounds this problem is that many of the interviewers/writers have no 'feel' for the era, having not experienced it. And so they view the period through the prism of their own time/beliefs/attitudes. What comes out of that thinking is a distorted mess, bearing little resemblance to the actual era in question. Oh, it winds me up big time how history gets mangled and potted into cliches. If we're to believe "common" history, it was all "love and peace" in 1967 and everyone became a hippy. In documentaries, they use the same old stock footage of hippies prancing about and it gives a false impression of that year. The reality was hippies were a very tiny minority. In the UK, there was a tiny hippy scene in one or two parts of London. The rest of the UK, it was mundane business as usual... hair did get longer by the end of the decade on some hippy-like garb worn in other parts of the UK but certainly not in 1967. I've encountered too many people younger than myself who believe that deluded version of 1967. Given the rewriting of 20th Century history we've been witnessing over the last 20 years, the history books are getting ridiculously distorted in spite of the fact we have plentiful evidence proving otherwise in the form of recordings, TV shows, newspapers and various forms of media which in this PC obsessed age is being censored and desecrated. I'm sure a big reason why we rarely ever see shows from the 60's and 70's anymore is because most characters and stars smoked. Smoking on TV now is a big NO NO NO. It's stupid. I look at old TV shows and view them for what they are - historical documents capturing a time long gone. When is the Mona Lisa gonna be enhanced and brought up to modern standards with collagen lips and a boob job? You can't rewrite history but the ongoing crusade to do just that is extremely depressing. Another cliche is that every young male in the UK was either a Mod or a Rocker, when the vast majority were neither. I have a great photo of my dad with his mates at his 21st birthday party in April 1964, and they all have Mod type suits with Teddy Boy quiffs, just like Tony Hicks and Billy J. Kramer!
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Post by Mevrouw Bee on Aug 21, 2020 15:42:16 GMT
Oh, it winds me up big time how history gets mangled and potted into cliches. If we're to believe "common" history, it was all "love and peace" in 1967 and everyone became a hippy. In documentaries, they use the same old stock footage of hippies prancing about and it gives a false impression of that year. The reality was hippies were a very tiny minority. In the UK, there was a tiny hippy scene in one or two parts of London. The rest of the UK, it was mundane business as usual... hair did get longer by the end of the decade on some hippy-like garb worn in other parts of the UK but certainly not in 1967. I've encountered too many people younger than myself who believe that deluded version of 1967. Given the rewriting of 20th Century history we've been witnessing over the last 20 years, the history books are getting ridiculously distorted in spite of the fact we have plentiful evidence proving otherwise in the form of recordings, TV shows, newspapers and various forms of media which in this PC obsessed age is being censored and desecrated. I'm sure a big reason why we rarely ever see shows from the 60's and 70's anymore is because most characters and stars smoked. Smoking on TV now is a big NO NO NO. It's stupid. I look at old TV shows and view them for what they are - historical documents capturing a time long gone. When is the Mona Lisa gonna be enhanced and brought up to modern standards with collagen lips and a boob job? You can't rewrite history but the ongoing crusade to do just that is extremely depressing. Another cliche is that every young male in the UK was either a Mod or a Rocker, when the vast majority were neither. I have a great photo of my dad with his mates at his 21st birthday party in April 1964, and they all have Mod type suits with Teddy Boy quiffs, just like Tony Hicks and Billy J. Kramer! You look at my brother's old high school yearbooks between 67 and 71 and no guy has long hair until 1971. History tends to focus on youth in the "important" cities, while ignoring the vast majority who didn't live in Liverpool, London, New York, San Francisco, etc...
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Post by stuball on Aug 21, 2020 16:38:18 GMT
I find it impossible to watch most of today's TV shows and movies, (and that goes double for modern Muzak!) especially where they purport to show previous eras. They all seem to be lensed through a filter of uber political correctness, as well as introducing modern attitudes and mores to historical characters. I find it jarring and annoying. Hair styles, clothing, and especially attitudes, are all so wrong for the period. Men are largely portrayed in the modern manner, weak and sensitive, and women as two-fisted, liberated ball breakers. It's not for me. I much prefer men as men and women as women. Today, my viewing is largely composed of old films and old music. You could say I'm withdrawing from the modern world, and you'd be pretty much correct. Maybe that comes with advancing age. Without a doubt, I'm proud to be a fuddy-duddy.
Re hair styles: I attended high school from the autumn of '66 to the spring of '71. In my first 2 years, I knew or saw no guy with even longish hair! Only in my grade 11 year, did I see hair creep over the ears, and even then only about 10% of the guys had that style. In my grade 12 year (69-70) and grade 13(70-71) hair did get 'long' (down to the shoulders) but even then, only among the very few (I confess I was one of the few - a huge Hollies fan AND long hair- now that was an anomaly!). People assumed if you had long hair, that you were a druggie and listened to 'heavy' music. And by and large they were correct. But flowing hair to the shoulders, no drugs and Hollies-lover? A one in a million freak!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2020 16:42:07 GMT
Another cliche is that every young male in the UK was either a Mod or a Rocker, when the vast majority were neither. I have a great photo of my dad with his mates at his 21st birthday party in April 1964, and they all have Mod type suits with Teddy Boy quiffs, just like Tony Hicks and Billy J. Kramer! You look at my brother's old high school yearbooks between 67 and 71 and no guy has long hair until 1971. History tends to focus on youth in the "important" cities, while ignoring the vast majority who didn't live in Liverpool, London, New York, San Francisco, etc... My parents were born and raised in London, supposedly the cultural centre of the universe in the mid '60s! The average working class Londoner didn't look, and couldn't afford to look, like they shopped in Carnaby Street.
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Post by gee on Aug 21, 2020 17:35:36 GMT
I agree with Stuball - re UK Television there does seem to be a slight hint of change creeping in
NOT mainstream BBC or ITV, Channels Four and Five of course - all are far too gone down the 'woke' trail
however Talking Pictures channel screen older TV shows - often with the obligatory silly message about reflecting outmoded attitudes of those times etc - but at least older TV shows are back on including black and white ITC shows, 'Special Branch' Starring George Sewell and Patrick Mower, Barry Foster as 'Van Der Valk', Adam Faith as 'Budgie' and 'Sunday Night at The London Palladium' featuring Hollies, Shadows, Cliff/Shadows, Fortunes, Searchers, Freddie and The Dreamers
while CBS Justice channel are screening black and white shows like Perry Mason and The Fugitive etc...where as until recently ONLY colour shows were allowed
so maybe the times are slightly a changing at long last...
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Post by stuball on Aug 21, 2020 19:06:37 GMT
Interesting, Gee!
I do think the plethora of viewing options has its good points and bad.
Back in the 'good old days', viewing options were very limited, and we all tended, more or less, to watch the same shows. That was good in the sense we were, to some degree, on the same page. It brought people together, and led to easy chatting about last night's episode, or 'who was that guest star?' etc.
Nowadays, with so many choices to select from, conversation can be very limited, as everyone seems to be following different series, different networks, a myriad of specialty channels, etc. I can't believe the number of short conversations I've had, or overheard others have, with friends or family. Something along these lines:
"Did you catch 'enter series name here' last night?"
"Nope! Never seen it! But I did watch 'enter another show name here'! Did you see it?"
"No. Can't say I've heard of it."
I suppose to some degree, music today follows a similar pattern. Once again, so many listening options, and so many people into so many kinds of music, perhaps what we're seeing is a form of 'ghetto-izing, where listening alternatives are endless, but with less and less commonality to hold us all together. Food for thought if nothing else.
No doubt today, we're spoilt for choice, with endless options. But say what you will, there was certainly something comforting about the old Top 50 radio, and the 3 or 4 network TV.
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Post by johnt on Aug 21, 2020 21:21:16 GMT
however Talking Pictures channel screen older TV shows - often with the obligatory silly message about reflecting outmoded attitudes of those times etc - but at least older TV shows are back on including black and white ITC shows, 'Special Branch' Starring George Sewell and Patrick Mower, Barry Foster as 'Van Der Valk', Adam Faith as 'Budgie' and 'Sunday Night at The London Palladium' featuring Hollies, Shadows, Cliff/Shadows, Fortunes, Searchers, Freddie and The Dreamers Not forgetting The Adventures of Robin Hood starring Richard Greene and William Tell with Conrad Phillips. I used to watch these two shows when I was just a kid and now every episode is being shown again. Brilliant!
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Post by cameron on Aug 21, 2020 21:44:19 GMT
No doubt today, we're spoilt for choice, with endless options. But say what you will, there was certainly something comforting about the old Top 50 radio, and the 3 or 4 network TV. It used to be quality, not quantity. There's 200+ freeview channels in the UK, and 99% of them show utter dross and endless repeats. We actually got rid of our TV about three years ago now. If we watch anything, it's via Netflix or YouTube. I miss the good old fashioned variety shows - not so much the early 60s ones where there'd be big bands and morris dancers rubbing shoulders with popular music groups, but the late 60s onwards shows that combined interviews with performances. Tom Jones has been uploading various clips to YouTube of his infamous 'This Is Tom Jones' show, and I find his duets with artists to be the main attraction sometimes. He does an absolutely sublime version of 'I'm Gonna Make You Love Me' with Dusty Springfield and it got me wondering why those two never did an album together because they have such good chemistry on stage: But that's the kind of entertainment show that had a grip on audiences. We could see the artists we loved but they'd sometimes be doing the unexpected. Nothing fancy, just well presented performers actually singing and playing. Nowadays it seems to be a competition as to who can put on the biggest show, a lot of the time artists don't even sing live and they certainly never do anything out of the ordinary in terms of material performed. Everything now seems to be geared around reality TV or game shows.
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Post by Mevrouw Bee on Aug 21, 2020 22:13:55 GMT
That being said, this "all" or commonality is maybe something we share personally in this forum. But it tends to leave out people who don't conform to it. We're a lot more diverse now and pop culture merely reflects that. I'm not the target audience for everything and I don't have to be. As long as it's for somebody, great. If it's not, then it will sink and die.
That being said, I'm clueless about TV and have pretty much always have been. I only turned it on for the first time in four months last weekend to catch the rerun of Harry Styles guest-hosting on SNL.
I tended to watch the BBC when I lived in Holland because I needed some connection to the English-language world, but before I moved there, nope. It was always kind of shite, imo, and I rarely engaged in "water-cooler chit-chat".
But in general, I'm kind of skeptical about nostalgia. Even with the Hollies...being a late-comer to most of their back catalogue, it's about the music for me, not so much the memories the songs evoke.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2020 5:57:27 GMT
Although variety shows peaked in the late 60s and early 70s, there were still plenty around throughout the '80s and into the '90s, and there were also plenty of chat and quiz shows which featured guests (80s/90s TV appearances by The Hollies include 'Starburst', 'The Russell Harty Show', 'The Pamela Armstrong Show', 'Wogan' and 'Pebble Mill'). It was 'Big Brother' that started the whole so-called "reality" TV craze, and now the choice is very limited for musical acts to promote their latest records - a few years back The Hollies were reduced to appearing on the QVC shopping channel!
I also miss older comedies, and occasionally still watch DVDs of shows that the mainstream channels daren't repeat ('It Ain't Half Hot Mum', 'Love Thy Neighbour', 'Man About The House', etc). I don't believe that all TV was great then and is cr*p now though. During this lockdown, me and my better half have been binging on crime drama shows, and some like 'Broadchurch', 'Line of Duty', 'Hidden' (a Welsh drama), 'Hinterland' (ditto), 'Shetland' (Scottish) and 'Unforgotten' are really superb.
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Post by sandy on Aug 22, 2020 9:19:18 GMT
That being said, this "all" or commonality is maybe something we share personally in this forum. But it tends to leave out people who don't conform to it. We're a lot more diverse now and pop culture merely reflects that. I'm not the target audience for everything and I don't have to be. As long as it's for somebody, great. If it's not, then it will sink and die. That being said, I'm clueless about TV and have pretty much always have been. I only turned it on for the first time in four months last weekend to catch the rerun of Harry Styles guest-hosting on SNL. I tended to watch the BBC when I lived in Holland because I needed some connection to the English-language world, but before I moved there, nope. It was always kind of shite, imo, and I rarely engaged in "water-cooler chit-chat". But in general, I'm kind of skeptical about nostalgia. Even with the Hollies...being a late-comer to most of their back catalogue, it's about the music for me, not so much the memories the songs evoke. I think the quality music from the sixties, as The Hollies,Beatles etc survives in it's own right, for music's sake, without relying on the retro nostalgia vibe, as proven when you connect online and realise there's huge interest still out there,from a younger generation.Then there's the peripheral stuff, as the odd golden oldey on the radio,stuff which' merely' evokes memories and nostalgia.( And the ' merely' is not in any way meant to sound disparaging, it's really important too! The snapshots of moments in our lives) There are many 'era' package tours which do the rounds nicely, but tap into nostalgia mainly,and the bums on seats are not likely to go buy the music afterwards. Discussing changes in TV viewing patterns leads on to the modern way of listening to music too. I love a pick and mix sometimes, but there are times when only a whole,wonderful chunky bar of chocolate will do...or streaming or playing odd tracks is great, but the whole thing about settling down to listen to a whole album these days doesn't seem to be a thing anymore, and I think that's a shame. The mood of an album,and the play order etc used to be really important in the enjoyment, and it's sad it's gone for a lot of people.
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