What Goes Around...a better set ?

[gee]

We have been looking at 'A Crazy Steal' from 1978 and speculating how that album might have been improved re the songs etc

what about the poorly received 'Nash reunion' set on WEA Records issued in 1983 that many were disappointed with...?

well for me the over reliance on Paul Bliss songs and too much 'trendy keyboards' and drum programming were a major let down

Bliss wrote some nice songs of course, but maybe they gave him too many (?) and while I'd keep most I would offset those with at least four original composed songs, and re-arrange a few to sound less synthetic ! 

I felt the lack of anything self composed - even if a 'Hollies version' of a earlier solo or CSN number - was a notable disappointment as one great skill they had was making a song into a 'Hollies song' which they most certainly COULD have very easily done re Clarke and Nash compositions 

while the perhaps unwise re-cut of 'Just One Look' which for me ended up just drained of it's fire and sounding rather tired and uninspired was a mistake  ? (I felt so)

the glorious Clarke-Hicks-Nash vocal harmonies were clearly the best thing evident on the rather short on playing time LP as released - indeed with a mere ten short songs the very large run out groove looked awfully bad value for money on a 1980's full priced vinyl album !!

so HOW could they have improved the album ?

first up one of the better cuts from the Nash reunion a terrific version of 'Let Her Go Down' with strong harmonies and a nice Hicks guitar solo should have been included on the LP not wasted as only a rarer overseas 'B' side down under...also the UK 'B' side 'Musical Pictures' was worth including

I think to be honest they could have dropped the very 'poppy' sounding number 'I Got What I Want', and the insipid re-cut of  'Just One Look' - sorry if one is a fav of yours but the first I find rather forgettable while the very 'lack lustre' production on the latter rather grates with me (it worked nicely in live concerts done that way but somehow for me lost something in the recording studio - and it does NOT compare well with the 'snappy' 1964 UK hit at all)

'Casualty' I would have put as second track on side one plus crucially re-arranged to feature REAL drums and Hicks guitar not those dreadful 'tinny' keyboards !


I would have had them do NEW Hollies versions of two Allan Clarke solo numbers - 'Slipstream' and 'Shadow in The Street' (a USA chart hit for Clarke) and two Graham Nash CSN songs 'Teach Your Children' and 'Wasted on The Way' (both being sung by The Hollies in concerts then and thereafter) done in both electric rock ('Slipstream' , 'Shadow') and acoustic folk (the two Nash songs) style to make it less of an OTT keyboards fest sound

A few songs WERE re-cut with Nash for the LP as released - 'Take My Love and Run' and 'If The Lights Go Out' - so it was clearly something they were up for doing...and those four numbers would have been NEW Hollies versions of songs already associated with both Clarke and Nash

Maybe a 14 track album could have resulted something like this:

side one:

Slipstream / Casualty / Take My Love and Run / Wasted on The Way /  Say You'll Be Mine / Somethin' Ain't Right /  If The Lights Go Out

side two:

Stop in The Name of Love / Musical Pictures / Teach Your Children / Let Her Go Down / Shadow in The Street / Someone Else's Eyes / Having A Good Time

Wouldn't this 14 track version featuring new Hollies versions with Clarke-Hicks-Nash harmonies of at least two Allan Clarke and two Graham Nash songs plus more 'real instruments' and notably Bobby's drums plus Tony's guitar featured along with a few acoustic led tracks have sounded a stronger Nash Reunion album...?

[anthony]

Funny thing I thought What goes around wasn't bad, except Just one look, it was shocking, watching paint dry would have to be more fun.

Yes Let her go down would have been a great addition, love Allans intro, thought Musical Pictures was a wonderful song also.

At the time Stop in the Name of Love was being played on the radio which was great, Hollies with a new song being played in 1983.

If I remember correctly they started their Melbourne concert with Stop in the name with love back that year.

Thought the Album was up tempo compared with their late 70's albums that were full of ballads.

 

In my opinion as this album wasn't well received in the USA with their trump card Graham Nash the Hollies lost patience, I believe their attendance for the concerts was poor,

hard to believe as they seemed to do a lot of TV in the states at the time, Dick Clarke, a rock and roll special and maybe others. 

[gee]

those two 'B' sides songs certainly should have been included which at least would have made it an album of twelve songs - the large 'run out groove' on the vinyl album looked awfully poor value for money for a 1983 LP...!

also there is the song 'Don't Close Your Eyes' which I have heard was apparently complete vocally just need some additional instrumentation to finish it off - possibly Hicks guitarwork (?) which on other songs was the last thing to go on a otherwise completed track

I think they should at the very least have made it a twelve track album and the later version of 'Just One Look' was a mistake I feel

[moorlock2003]

The thing with "What Goes Around" was that they were trying to "sound '80s", and pretty much succeeded. The trouble was lack of real involvement from Nash. If he had been serious about a reunion with his original band, and if he had more pride in the band's reputation, he would have written some songs, preferably with Clarke and Hicks, like the old days. But instead the reunion was a hastily-assembled thing, with the motivation being making a quick buck. For love or money? The answer is obvious.

[gee]

CSN were at a pretty low ebb at the time with relations between them strained (nothing changes much !) and following the 'Holliedaze' reunion plus Nash singing backing vocals on 'Somethin Ain't Right' in 1981 it was Allan Clarke who went over to LA and saw Nash re doing a full album

Clarke announces in Hollies European concerts (Mainz Germany in 1982) that they are going to do a album with Graham

the tracks are partly cut here in the UK with vocals and additional instrumentation at Rudy Records LA - presumably neither Clarke or Nash felt they had anything new to contribute and I would agree the 'reunion' was very much as both sides needed a boost

Nash as CSN wern't on good terms, The Hollies hoping to build on 'Holliedaze' UK chart success

Nash got the 'one off' deal with WEA Records as The Hollies had been dropped by Polydor in 1981 and EMI while interested had yet to properly re-sign the band

it probably was something of a rush job creatively hence the over reliance on Paul Bliss songs plus the obsession with 'sounding modern and trendy' hence the mega keyboards and drum programming etc - a route that many veteran bands then went down too (The Moody Blues, Jethro Tull, Yes etc all went down that musical avenue as did The Searchers on 'Hungry Hearts' album later)

a mere TEN short songs was something of a con in 1983 and they really could have done it much better with a few more songs, a variation of musical styles and less obsession with attempting to be 'modern'

the vocal Clarke-Hicks-Nash reunion was probably the highpoint of the whole project

[rokinrobinoflocksley]

For the most part, "What Goes Around" is really good. Allan sounds great, most of the songs are uptempo. I know I played it to death when it came out, ha. That said, yes, Just One Look was a mistake. Someone Else's Eyes is slightly boring. And a lot of the synth keys and fake piano all over the album should have been replaced with more of Tony's guitar. But the songs themselves are overall pretty decent. Even though the boys were trying to appeal with the 80s sound / arrangements, it was nowhere as bad as The Monkees attempt on their comeback album "Pool It." That was absolutely dreadful... I do love "If The Lights Go Out", the most guitar song on the album...

Then again, if there was ever a time to do a Hollies version of Marrakesh Express, then this was it...

[gee]

they re-utilised the basic backing tracks for both 'Take My Love and Run' from the 1981 final Polydor single (hence Brian Chatton's credit on the album) and in a slight remix  'If The Lights Go Out' from the (then still unissued at the time) first 1980 'Sylvester version' (hence Mike Batt's credit) in a reversal of the situation with 'Blowin in The Wind' over 1968-69 versions - besides fresh vocals some remixing was done on both 'Nash versions' included on WGA as the tempo on 'Take My Love and Run' feels a bit different to the original single version which was slightly longer.... while Tony possibly added some guitar on each track (?)

Allan calls: 'take my, take my love and run...' on the polydor single version towards the ending but not the shorter  WEA album version while the guitar intro on 'If The Lights Go Out' is louder on the Nash version to the 1980 'Sylvester' version plus they dispensed with the layered vocal 'collage' part on the original, also Mike Batt's keyboard solo duet with Tony's guitar sounded a bit more background supporting the guitar on the 1983 Nash version compared to the first 1980 Sylvester version where they clearly are in duet more


Alan Tarney's fine rocker 'Somethin Ain't Right' dated from 1981 as well, hence it sounded more guitar led less 'keyboardy'

Considering they were singing both 'Teach Your Children' and 'Wasted On The Way' in Hollies concerts they easily could have done new Hollies studio versions of both

I do think Allan Clarke's solo albums had PLENTY of fine songs just right for The Hollies to adapt and it seems just Gary Benson's 'Sanctuary' (then unissued by The Hollies) and likewise Springsteen's 'Born To Run' were the only songs cut by both Allan solo and the group which at least gives the impression the band viewed Allan's solo career as a 'no go' area for them (??) which if so was  quite absurd

I would have loved a Hollies version of songs such as: 'Who ?', 'Slipstream', 'Shadow in The Street', 'Walls', 'Survivor' etc - the scope WAS there for some great Hollies songs during those years that would have been far more impressive and adventurous than just slow ballad after slow ballad

- and the reunion with Nash would have been a perfect project for that besides a few Hollies versions of Nash's CSN songs too

[moorlock2003]

Atlantic Records is to blame for the lack of a second hit after "Stop in the name of Love". "Take My Love and Run" is a superb track and was receiving massive airplay in New York in 1981 and 1983.  Why the record label failed to pay attention is a mystery.  I feel certain it would have charted.  There was no live version in 1983.  Another hit gets away. 

[cameron]

I think another issue with WGA is the murky mix - all the alternative versions of the tracks from before have better mixes - especially "Take My Love And Run", the single mix without Nash is much cleaner, punchier and sounding clear. The WGA mix is murky and quiet, perhaps trying to push the vocals too much. Ditto for "If The Lights Go Out", the earlier Sylvester version is much better edited with the vocal delay and Bobby's drums are more to the fore.

I don't think I can add to the comments about song choices, by this point, Allan's solo efforts are greatly excelling the Hollies' output for me. I think a quick cash in live LP of the Nash reunion tour would have been well received at the time, perhaps repeat the success of "Live Hits" with a new 1980s sound plus a few superior versions of CSN hits to boot.

As usual, the "Hollies Curse" strikes again with a great opportunity not fully exploited for their own benefit.

On reflection, I don't think it's a terrible album, it's certainly more exciting than 'A Crazy Steal' and '5317704', but still way off the mark of what they were capable of. Even re-cutting 'Carrie' at the start would have been a good choice, and the namesake might remind people of their earlier hit 'Carrie Anne' and help sell the album.

[moorlock2003]

May 21, 2019 19:40:11 GMT cameron said:

I think another issue with WGA is the murky mix - all the alternative versions of the tracks from before have better mixes - especially "Take My Love And Run", the single mix without Nash is much cleaner, punchier and sounding clear. The WGA mix is murky and quiet, perhaps trying to push the vocals too much. Ditto for "If The Lights Go Out", the earlier Sylvester version is much better edited with the vocal delay and Bobby's drums are more to the fore.

I don't think I can add to the comments about song choices, by this point, Allan's solo efforts are greatly excelling the Hollies' output for me. I think a quick cash in live LP of the Nash reunion tour would have been well received at the time, perhaps repeat the success of "Live Hits" with a new 1980s sound plus a few superior versions of CSN hits to boot.

As usual, the "Hollies Curse" strikes again with a great opportunity not fully exploited for their own benefit.

On reflection, I don't think it's a terrible album, it's certainly more exciting than 'A Crazy Steal' and '5317704', but still way off the mark of what they were capable of. Even re-cutting 'Carrie' at the start would have been a good choice, and the namesake might remind people of their earlier hit 'Carrie Anne' and help sell the album.

"Carrie" never appealed me; that was one that would have been better off left in the can. The Atlantic version of "Take my love and run" makes me think it was prepared for a single release that never happened. Nevertheless I heard it numerous times on New York radio. One station played an edited version of "Stop in the name of love" minus Tony's guitar solo. This never got released on disc so the station must have been playing a tape of its shortened version. Just as Epic blew it back in 1973, Atlantic should have put out a live album from the tour; instead it came out long after the event. I've heard Atlantic wanted a second album but of course Nash wouldn't sit still for that.