Hollies Concerts

[stuball]

This post will be somewhat off the beaten path of your typical Hollies post.

I believe it may have been Anthony, who mentioned in an interesting post a couple of weeks back, that bringing up former Hollies names during the recent Australian concerts was somewhat pointless, since many of today's fans wouldn't be familiar with names like Haydock, Clarke etc. 

At first I thought: 'Hold on a minute! What kind of Hollies fan wouldn't be familiar with the old names, the old records, the group history and so on?' But the more I mused it over, I came around to thinking Anthony perhaps has a valid point.

Could anyone guess with any degree of certainty, what percentage of attendees at a Hollies concert are knowledgable about the group they are about to hear and see? Not likely! But then I thought it might be fun, and perhaps just possible, to think over the people I have attended Hollies concerts with in the past (well in the past!) and extrapolate from there.

First off, I decided to divide my pals from the past into 3 groups:

1, Hollies Fanatics (those who bought everything with the name 'THE HOLLIES' stamped upon it! That would include me.)

2, Hollies Fans ( they'd buy a few of The Hollies most popular records and would have a fairly general knowledge of the group.

and 3, Not Hollies fans at all really, but friends who joined us because, well, it's a night out, and it's better than spending another Friday night flicking through the channels on TV.)

The largest group I witnessed a Hollies concert with, was a group of seven. They divided neatly into 1 fanatic (me), 2 fans and 4 friends. This turned out to be quite representative of my other Hollies shows throughout the years, with at least half the friends who accompanied me back then, being generally young, listening to pop music but not particularly hot for The Hollies.

For anyone who hasn't dozed off yet, I'll cut to the chase: adding up my admittedly small samples and  extrapolating it percentage-wise, it showed about 20% extremely knowledgable Hollies Fans, 35% general music fans who liked the group, and 45% who just wanted a good night out.

Makes me wonder if Anthony's recent concert would show similar percentages. Or can we even compare Hollies concerts and their fans from the '60's and 70's, with Hollies concerts and fans of today? 

I realize I've raised as many questions here as answers, but would love to hear your thoughts on Hollies audiences, past and present.

[Deleted]

If you were to ask the average person of 40+ in the UK to name a Hollies member, the chances are they'd name or at least describe the cool (but miserable-looking) lead singer who sang 'He Ain't Heavy' on 'Top Of The Pops' 4 times when it hit No. 1 in 1988. Graham Nash would probably be a distant 2nd, with Tony, Bobby, etc only known to keen 60s music fans.

As for percentage of people who go to their concerts, it would probably be similar to other 60s pop groups like The Searchers and The Tremeloes, rather than those who support The Rolling Stones, Fleetwood Mac, Queen or any other band where every member was well-known.

[Deleted]

Having said that, all 4 of The Tremeloes were once more famous in the UK as individuals than all 5 of The Hollies ever were, even having their Christian names on the front of one of their most popular albums.

[gee]

re band members names being readily 'known' I would actually say Graham Nash then Tony Hicks....with Allan Clarke a sad third IF they knew his name even !

hence AC's solo career going nowhere....

while back in early seventies in the UK the name Allan Clarke was more likely to be known as the Leeds United and England soccer star Allan 'Sniffer' Clarke who scored the only goal of the 1972 F.A. Cup Final at Wembley when Leeds beat Arsenal 1-0 and in 1970 had scored a penalty as England beat Czechoslovakia 1-0 in a vital World cup match in Mexico !

our 'Clarkey' outside The Hollies fanbase was a surprisingly little known 'name' in the sixties / early seventies tho' his great voice was so well known !

many in the UK still only knew him as 'that guy in The Hollies' even in 1988 when 'He Ain't Heavy' made no.1

Terry Sylvester for such a key merseybeat second generation figure, in Escorts, Swinging Blue Jeans and over twelve years service to the Hollies...
AND his being only the FIFTH Liverpudlian to be inducted into the American R & R Hall of Fame after the Fab Four which even Gerry can't boast of - is even less well known outside Hollies fandom circles I would say...

Nash for The Hollies / CSN /CSNY / Crosby & Nash plus his photography, charitable work etc and being a 'sixties spokesman' often quoted in the music press and the 'in crowd' he hung out with ensured his name became well known and his being honoured by the Queen in recent years has cemented his place

Tony Hicks seems to have some standing - his column in that 'Guitarist' mag some years ago plus being known well by Paul McCartney, The Stones etc probably lifts him above say the general standing that most of the band members fall into, tho' Bobby Elliott too has some standing in musicians circles photographed with the likes of Paul Weller etc

but overall their preference to keep a lower profile probably means most who attend concerts beyond the fanbase may not know the names that well if at all and certainly re the current version of the band - tho' I think Peter Howarth HAS become known more to latter day fans of the band, some of whom are not overly familiar with Allan Clarke

Carl Wayne has his place - mainly re The Move of course, but he IS known as the guy who helped 'save' The Hollies as a later touring band too

I fear Mike Rickfors is the 'George Lazenby' of Hollies singers
(I liked OHMSS !)

of the rest only Ray Stiles might have some standing for his seventies days in Mud, but sadly Eric, Bernie, Alan Coates, Steve Lauri, Ian Parker and various keyboardists etc  - who, besides us, now  would know of them ?

[Deleted]

I guess it all depends on our age at the time. As an adolescent in the mid '70s, the most famous name to me from the above list would've been Ray Stiles, closely followed by Carl Wayne (thanks to his 'New Faces' theme tune)! Sure, I was aware of some of The Hollies' hits via my parent's collection and I remember 'The Air That I Breathe' (+ possibly some others) charting, but, at the age of 11 in 1974 I couldn't have actually named any band members.

[anthony]

Hi Sutball,

We went to the last Melbourne show as a group of 6,

1.Myself a very keen fan for over 55 plus years, have all the records etc, we know they type, all of us here I would imagine.

2.my wife who when I met her had a Hollies greatest hits record in her record collection, doesn't mind them but really goes for the night out. Knows the hits only.

3.A good mate and his wife who knew the big hits, hadn't heard We're through tho. only knows the hits and is a lover of good music, no idea of whos was who.

4.Another couple of friends, they love the 60's shows, will go and see any old bands from that era. They said to me that the Hollies sang a searchers song in the set,

just go because its the 60's and love the hits. No idea of bands history.

So Stuball in my case a total of 6 went and I was only the real fan, others went for a night out and enjoy good music.

They would have no idea apart really from my wife who had seen Allan Clarke with me back in 1978.

We here as big Hollies fans want these great songs to be included, most of the concert goers would have no idea what they would be. And we all know what going to a concert and not knowing

the songs is like, its very boring and can be very off putting. I remember going to a Cliff Richard concert and he decided to sing the full new album from start to finish, got very boring.

so with respect to others views, saying this is dedicated to him or him I believe most would have no idea who the band was talking about unless it was graham Nash. we would have whispers who is Eric Haydock,

Allan Who? oh I've heard of Graham type of stuff.

In the end they play the hits, some have become very  boring, totally sick of Yes I will, just replace it with Mad Professor Blyth I say, I'd be over the moon. Trouble is I think we they fans on this page are a small percent of the audience.    

in the end Give the audience what they want.

Thanks Stuball, great topic.             

[anthony]

I fear Mike Rickfors is the 'George Lazenby' of Hollies singers
(I liked OHMSS !)

That's brilliant, I think that's sums it up really well Gee, Funny I thought Lazenby played a great Bond and Rickfors played a brilliant part in the Hollies history.

Just another point,  just thought of When Graham Nash mentioned the original Drummer Don Rathbone being ill at the Hall of fame, who apart from the dedicated Hollies fan would have any idea who he is.

To most it would be of no interest.

[dirtyfaz]

Without ever talking to anyone my guess would be a large number of the people would know of some of the Hollies songs. Some people go to everyones concerts so they may not know any of the material.
As for the personnel, my thoughts would be that very few people there could name any member of the Hollies past or present. They know the songs but not the names that go with the songs.

Like you Anthony a big fan since I guess '64 in a fanatical way. Collected way too much of their recorded stuff (45s, EPs and LPs). I was never into cassettes or any other media until the advent of CDs. The most exciting time for collecting was pre internet. Too easy to get stuff now and way too expensive. Everyone thinks the stuff they are selling is worth a fortune but I guess realy it is only worth what someone will pay for it.

[anthony]

Apr 18, 2019 23:48:40 GMT dirtyfaz said:

Without ever talking to anyone my guess would be a large number of the people would know of some of the Hollies songs. Some people go to everyones concerts so they may not know any of the material.
As for the personnel, my thoughts would be that very few people there could name any member of the Hollies past or present. They know the songs but not the names that go with the songs.

Like you Anthony a big fan since I guess '64 in a fanatical way. Collected way too much of their recorded stuff (45s, EPs and LPs). I was never into cassettes or any other media until the advent of CDs. The most exciting time for collecting was pre internet. Too easy to get stuff now and way too expensive. Everyone thinks the stuff they are selling is worth a fortune but I guess realy it is only worth what someone will pay for it.

Yes it was fun pre internet, you would find a contact then try and do a swap with stuff. I know I was very lucky to get some great video clips from a guy, these days its all on YouTube.

Some of the cost of stuff is just silly, see the same stuff all the time so you would think they would learn. For us in Australia its the cost of the postage, especially from the states,

I don't want it to come over in private jet only post. Some seem to charge reasonable prices, I saw a photo I liked from American on ebay, postage was way over the top, asked if

he could do a cheaper postage, reply he thought that was reasonable, still trying to sell his photo. I didn't care if it came from a slow boat from china.

sorry back on topic.

I would imagine in the 60's fans knew more about the bands(Hollies) thanks to all the teen mags.

In the 70's as the Hollies were still current I would imagine the knowledge was there but a lot less.

The big reunion (1983) was Graham Nash was back, a bit like Graham and his old band who ever.

Now its a night out, know some of their stuff, as you would know dirtyfaz Too Young To be Married always goes down very well here.

These days I fit in very well with the audiences as they are mostly mature, at 61 I tend to be a young one.

At this stage of the Hollies career, don't expect chart success, competing with the new artist on the block, new songs that are gonna blow your mind, to me its a celebration of this wonderful band,

how lucky we are to still have Tony and Bobby, its not gonna last for ever.

[stuball]

Apr 19, 2019 2:12:47 GMT anthony said:

Apr 18, 2019 23:48:40 GMT dirtyfaz said:

Without ever talking to anyone my guess would be a large number of the people would know of some of the Hollies songs. Some people go to everyones concerts so they may not know any of the material.
As for the personnel, my thoughts would be that very few people there could name any member of the Hollies past or present. They know the songs but not the names that go with the songs.

I would imagine in the 60's fans knew more about the bands(Hollies) thanks to all the teen mags.

In the 70's as the Hollies were still current I would imagine the knowledge was there but a lot less.

The big reunion (1983) was Graham Nash was back, a bit like Graham and his old band who ever.

Now its a night out, know some of their stuff, 

These days I fit in very well with the audiences as they are mostly mature, at 61 I tend to be a young one.

I think Anthony and Dirtyfaz have come to very similar conclusions, and although it's been 36 years since I last witnessed a Hollies concert, I would tend to agree with their assessments.

[stuball]

Apr 18, 2019 23:40:58 GMT anthony said:

I fear Mike Rickfors is the 'George Lazenby' of Hollies singers
(I liked OHMSS !)

That's brilliant, I think that's sums it up really well Gee, Funny I thought Lazenby played a great Bond and Rickfors played a brilliant part in the Hollies history.

A very amusing and astute observation by Gee.

And if I may stretch the Lazenby-Rickfors allusion a little further, one can see the similarities between 'On Her Majesty's Secret Service' (Lazenby's first and only outing as James Bond) and 'Romany' (Rickfors initial and only universally released Hollies LP).

Both today are considered among the very finest product from among the Bond and Hollies oeuvre, although they both appear as a mere hiccup when viewed as a portion of the whole. But the time and care taken to ensure the quality was top-notch, before presenting it to the jaundiced eye and ear of a frankly doubtful public, ensured that both OHMSS and Romany were impeccably crafted pieces of work.

I suppose where this Lazenby-Rickfors theme breaks down, is when you compare the attitude of the two individuals post releases: from what I have read, Lazenby got big-headed after OHMSS's success and demanded the world. Rickfors on the other hand, after Romany's tepid sales, must have questioned his long-term future with The Hollies. As it conspired, both turned to be short-term 'fixes', but there's no doubting the quality of their work.

[moorlock2003]

Here in the US, Romany was well-received and Epic had enough faith in it that it was kept in print. I have a copy on the blue Epic label from the late 70s. The album sold consistently over time, as did "Distant Light", also kept in print through the decade (finally minus the gatefold sleeve).

[moorlock2003]

Apr 18, 2019 17:31:23 GMT peterc said:

Having said that, all 4 of The Tremeloes were once more famous in the UK as individuals than all 5 of The Hollies ever were, even having their Christian names on the front of one of their most popular albums.

This album had some track shuffling and was retitled "Suddenly you Love me", after their latest hit. This was, sadly, the band's last US hit. The US B-side, the psych masterpiece "Suddenly Winter" was also included on the album. I bought the 45 at the time and ended up playing "Suddenly Winter" just as much if not more than "Suddenly you Love me".

[baz]

Some interesting points made in this thread - being a returning old "newcomer" I hope I'll be forgiven for reviving odd old threads!

It brings to mind Manfred Mann's grumpy comment that went something like "people remember the records, but not the group" and I think he had a point especially where The Hollies (and many others) are concerned. The Hollies had more hits than many bands of their era and most seem to be remembered by many but actual interest in the ins and outs of the band, their history etc is pretty much restricted to the real fans. The average person would go to a Hollies show because they know of some of their hits and that they were good, so when the opportunity comes along why not have a night out and see their show? I genuinely don't think Mr and Mrs Joe Average remotely care about who makes up the band on that stage. As long as they recognise some of the songs and they're played well, they're gonna go home happy.

Unfortunately from the earliest age I was passionate about my music so wanted to know every tiny detail I could find. Like all of us here, we know the history, the fact Allan left in 1971 and again in 1977/1978 and finally in 1999, we know about Mikael Rickfors and his great but brief contribution, the differences between Graham Nash and Terry Sylvester's harmonies and so on. Peter Howarth has split opinion amongst us here but from all accounts he is performing well, The Hollies still sell tours and all is fine. I do wonder how many go to Hollies shows now, listen to and enjoy it and remain unaware that Peter joined the band in 2004 and that Allan Clarke was the original singer. It can and does make a difference to most of us fans but to an average punter, it doesn't. People buy tickets for the BRAND "The Hollies" - it conjures up certain hits, professionalism etc and as long as the current Hollies provide that, then people will continue to see and enjoy them.

So, that's the big fundamental difference being a major fan who knows the history as opposed to a casual fan who knows a handful of the hits but not be able to name or recognise a single member. This year in the UK, we've had a couple of tours... one featured "Peter Noone of Herman's Hermits" and right now there's "Herman's Hermits 55th Anniversary" yet how many really know or care that they're two opposing different factions? They're both playing the same hits. So, various ways of looking at it all and it's quite clear there will always be a Hollies for as long as Tony and Bobby want to continue. Sure, many of us here would love to see some kind of one off reunions onstage, Allan and Graham or Terry Sylvester maybe joining for a few numbers, but that ain't gonna happen because the average present day Hollies punter isn't gonna really know nor care if during a show those guys joined them.

[stuball]

I remember seeing Herman's Hermits back in '76 and coincidentally saw The Hollies the same year. The vast difference between the two groups was the venues they played.

The Hermits playing 6 nights a week at different Canadian bars and lounges, with The Hollies one-nighting at concert halls. That said, I'm sure most pop fans present couldn't have named The Hollies lead singer although they all seemed to know 'Herman'! Trouble was, the Herman lead singer role was played by Karl Green, while also playing bass. Frank Renshaw sang high harmonies, with old standby's Lek and Barry on lead guitar and drums. But they sounded decent enough, and nobody seemed to know or care as long as they played the familiar tunes. Must have been soul-destroying in the long run.

The Hollies audience was far superior, as one would expect from a concert audience. But I doubt any more than 25% of them could name the individual Hollies. But they certainly sounded like The Hollies on record, and received several standing ovations.

Funny how fate works: Herman's Hermits were huge here in '65-66 while The Hollies at that time (pre-Bus Stop) were second-raters in the pop sweepstakes in America. Ten years later, the Hollies were a household name one-nighting, while The Hermits were very much a 'remember when?' nostalgia act, slogging their way through the bar scene.
.

[cameron]

This is an interesting thread that I've not noticed before. Here are my thoughts:

Recently I saw the Hollies at the Lincoln Motorhome Show, which is of significance to this thread for the main reason that most people have to stump up £30-£50 per ticket to see the Hollies in a fancy concert hall, yet here they were playing the main stage at a larger festival of four days of music. So more so than ever, the people attending fell firmly into the 'casual fans' category, as they'd already paid to attend the whole event, not just the Hollies specifically.

About a 1/3 way into their set, Tony told the story of how they rehearsed 'Magic Woman Touch' because a Dutch record company assured them it was a monumental hit in the Netherlands. So they re-learned it before their appearance in the Netherlands and played it to a bemused audience who'd seemingly never heard it. And they were going to play it for us now! It raised a laugh, but the dancefloor remained full, which only the Hollies and the Manfreds managed to do out of all the other acts of the weekend - typically if a song was played that people didn't like, they'd just leave the dancefloor. The Cilla Black tribute on Sunday managed to spectacularly clear the floor when she announced she was going to sing 'Liverpool Lullaby'! Despite people seemingly enjoying it, there was literally only me there who knew all the words! That includes Steve Lauri who sang it, as he started on the wrong verse - not that anyone noticed!

But by the end of the night, they blasted the audience with massive hit after massive hit and you could feel the atmosphere by the end of the evening was electric. Something impressive, considering the average age of your typical motorhome owner! You could say the only thing more electric than the atmosphere was the mobility scooters that at least half of them arrived on. I digress... my point is, the general public who were causal fans hadn't connected all these hit songs that they already knew to the same band. A lady next to me was just beaming by the end of the night and she said "these are my favourite band and I didn't even know!" and she's right. They remained largely faceless and that's the way they apparently all liked it - apart from Graham Nash, obviously.

On the flipside, I was surprised that although I've always confessed to not really liking the Manfred Mann, I knew every single song in their set. Even the sole McGuinness Flint song that they played. And before that, I'd probably swear to never having heard a McGuinness Flint song in my life. Other than Paul Jones, who I obviously knew, I couldn't pick out Mike D'Abo until he introduced himself and I had no idea that they had two other original members with them. And that's me as a "serious" 1960s music fan. So I absolutely understand that general concert goers won't be aware of the ins and outs of the members of the Hollies. I mean look at Allan Clarke now - you can hardly recognise him without his infamous flowing curly black hair!

So in answer to the original point, no, I don't think the general public or even many Hollies concert goers could pick out the original members of the group or know who was missing. I think even Graham Nash is a bigger name in America than he is here in the UK. They just enjoy the music and are pleasantly surprised by how much of it they knew. And that's why the current lineup is getting rave reviews the world over, because they're giving the people what they want to hear.

[anthony]

Agree with you 100% Cameron, I really don't believe people are all that fussed with who was or wasn't still in the band. I get more surprised if I talk to any music lover and they can name a member of the Hollies, I went to a BBQ some time ago and this guy did mention Allan Clarke, I thought this guy knows what he is talking about. Most people want to have a good time, relive their youth, be surprised by how many songs the Hollies had. Against some people here's belief, the Hollies do put on a great concert, very professional and just a lot of fun. My original point was its no point mentioning past members or tribute to them because the basic audience member will have no idea who they are anyway. The great thing is when Tony talks about the hits or songs they are doing he was part of it,

[baz]

Oct 11, 2019 23:11:17 GMT anthony said:

Most people want to have a good time, relive their youth, be surprised by how many songs the Hollies had.

Which is what it all boils down to ultimately. The Tony and Bobby factor is almost novel as there's not many bands left from the 60's and 70's with two members who played on all those hits.

Cameron's report on the Manfreds was interesting as again, another band with a lot of hits and the unusual situation of featuring both the lead singers. Not surprised the Cilla tribute had everybody stopping dancing to "Liverpool Lullabye" - I almost wish I could have witnessed that moment! And that raises another interesting point - the large amount of tribute acts and jukebox musicals which are doing extremely well which again proves that people go out to enjoy the songs regardless of who's performing them.