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Post by moorlock2003 on Dec 13, 2018 20:47:34 GMT
The peak of The Hollies' career is obvious. Their U.S. tour of 1972, promoting their hit album "Distant Light", was their high point. Every British band's dream is for a No. 1 hit in America. It could easily be said that The Beatles' career peak was their attaining No. 1 in America with "I want to hold your hand" and their appearance on US network television via The Ed Sullivan Show. And so it is also with The Hollies. Their appearance on ABC's In Concert, performing their No. 1. hit, "Long Cool Woman (in a black dress), was clearly the high point of their career.
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Post by cameron on Dec 13, 2018 21:07:59 GMT
This is the biggest joke I've ever read in my life! America is NOT the be end and end all for music. Americans passed over so much of the Hollies' output and failed to give them the attention that they deserved like seemingly the entire rest of the World did. America remains the ONLY major music market in the world that they never achieved a number one hit in. Yet Americans lapped up more of the same from the Dave Clarke Five and Herman's Hermits in a big way. Go figure.
The 1972 tour was a complete and utter disaster. Perhaps the worst of their entire career. The supporting act the Raspberries upstaged the Hollies in a BIG way. They were more relevant, a harder edged band in general and better rehearsed. They also didn't have a front man who spent all night dodging the spotlight, as Mikael Rickfors did. A review of their show in Maine told of the Raspberries getting a thunderous reception, and the audience booed when they announced that their set was finishing and the Hollies were coming on. The audience boos continued through the Hollies' first two songs, with people chanting "we want the Raspberries!" and the Hollies stopped their second song on the set after a minute. The Raspberries were thrown off the tour by the Hollies' management for 'unprofessional conduct' and rapidly replaced by Billy Preston, who attracted an audience in his own right, who promptly left when his set was over! Various reports seem to suggest that less than half of the audience on any given night stayed for the Hollies. On one of the surviving bootlegs, Tony quips "did you all come in the same taxi?".
The Hollies themselves regard "I'm Alive" getting to number one in the UK as their career peak. According to NME, "I Can't Let Go" was also number one, though Wikipedia recalls it being number two.
As for the Beatles' career peak - Sgt. Pepper anyone? Ed Sulivan and "I Want To Hold Your Hand" may have been what sold the Beatles in America, but the rest of the World had been enjoying their music for around 18 months by that time. Beatlemania was alive and kicking in Europe at least almost a year before it hit in America. Pepper inspired a cultural revolution and opened up everyone's ears to just what an artist could do in the studio. Music has never been the same since June 1st, 1967.
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poco
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Post by poco on Dec 14, 2018 0:12:24 GMT
Cameron,
It is not nice to get Moorlock mad. LOL
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Post by dirtyfaz on Dec 14, 2018 0:39:26 GMT
Everything is about ones opinion, right.
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poco
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Post by poco on Dec 14, 2018 1:21:42 GMT
Dirtyfaz,
Right you are, what we have here is 2 Yanks, 1 Brit & 1 Aussie. It's all in good fun. Moorlock is correct, the 1972 tour was to get them more FM airplay. They had two gifted lead players now. The Hollies were booked in poor choice venues. Blame the band and their management. They could have spent the entire fall of 1972 just playing New England colleges and selling out. Perfecting their stage show by adding and dropping songs. BUT In all fairness to Rickfors, he needed more tours behind his belt in our vast USA. They never toured England to introduce him to the public.
Distant Light was a very good album but Romany took it a step further with great rock, mid tempo and ballads songs. Rickfor's voice was just perfect for them, Sylvester for that matter too. The Hollie harmony's were still in tact. It was a very brief breath of fresh air for us yanks.
Cameron you are right kind of, our Corporate America Music Industry (Which Sucks) did not promote or push many of those Hollies singles. We never knew they even came out. (Well I did & Moorlock knew) TWO single sales does not get a gold record in America. LOL
Dirtyfaz did you get my email 2 days ago ? Cameron you too.
Rock on my Hollie brothers.
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Post by cameron on Dec 14, 2018 13:01:30 GMT
The Hollies were booked in poor choice venues. Blame the band and their management. They could have spent the entire fall of 1972 just playing New England colleges and selling out. Perfecting their stage show by adding and dropping songs. BUT In all fairness to Rickfors, he needed more tours behind his belt in our vast USA. They never toured England to introduce him to the public. Distant Light was a very good album but Romany took it a step further with great rock, mid tempo and ballads songs. Rickfor's voice was just perfect for them, Sylvester for that matter too. The Hollie harmony's were still in tact. It was a very brief breath of fresh air for us yanks. Didn't they play a venue in New York behind some kind of safety screen? I read something somewhere about them playing behind bars! I don't know if that's true. Traditionally, the Hollies had always plumped for the very best choice of venues. Festival Halls, Outdoor Concert Parks and Colleges. I don't know what happened on that American tour, presumably a tour promoter offered them a lucrative deal or something. A similar thing happened again in 1975, with a two week residency at the Bottom Line club in New York. The last college tour they did to my knowledge at least was in 1968 when Graham was still with them. I make my above comments in slight jest, but as a Brit, I get frustrated with how much music we sent to America that just wasn't met with any kind of appreciation at all, or happened months - or even years - after it first hit over here. It seemed very commercial instead. If a record started to sell well, you heard it. In Britain, it just had to be GOOD to get radio play, everyone seemed to have a fair chance. DJs like John Peel and Kenny Everett ruled the airwaves, bringing us the next big thing, no matter how quirky or left field, but so long as it was of good quality. Kenny Everett famously forced EMI to release 'Bohemian Rhapsody', as Freddie Mercury slipped him an acetate under the strict instructions not to play it *wink wink*. He played it no less than 14 times on Radio One over the course of one weekend, and EMI were so inundated with calls to see where people could buy the song, that they were forced to release it as a single, as Queen had wanted. The rest, is history... The power was certainly to the people. Perhaps because we have the BBC, which we pay a license for so there's no advertising. As a result, they aren't able to accept sponsorships or advertise at all. Something that is still upheld today. So back in the 1960s and 1970s, DJs had a total free reign to play whatever they wanted. Of course, it's more structured now. It didn't quite work like that in America. Because the country is so big, promoters would tackle one state at a time because there was no National Radio. You could end up having a hit on the East Coast that no one has ever heard on the West Coast! It was common place to bribe DJs to play certain singles (which don't get me wrong, this happened in England too, and became an epidemic in the mid-1970s) but you end up with groups like the Hollies being frozen out, purely because they didn't have an aggressive PR man - or seemingly any PR man at all - trying to make these singles happen. "Long Cool Woman" got airplay purely as an album track, which forced Epic to release it as a single. My point is, lots of people look to America as a gauge of musical taste and success, but really, there was a lot of money changing hands to make these singles happen and pushing and shoving behind the scenes for the limelight. America understood PR and how to sell an artist. Songs tended to get popularity purely on their own merit over here until the mid-1970s - and certainly even more so in places like Australia. They picked any song from any album and if it was good, they'd play it on the radio, irrespective of whether it was a single or not. Of course, the whole world now works on America's wavelength, which is a shame because the Top 40 is now rather stagnant and more of the same. Rap music greatly outsells the Top 40, but radio stations won't play it, so you never hear it. Though I'm not complaining about that by any means!
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Post by dirtyfaz on Dec 14, 2018 21:23:02 GMT
America and the Hollies, always poor choices by band management hence the lack of US major success.
Why does any band want to crack America. Wealth. Write one big #1 and you are virtually a millionaire.
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Post by gee on Dec 14, 2018 21:56:54 GMT
FACTS;
Bus Stop making no.5 in the USA was the key break through stateside for The Hollies - then as EPIC Records signed the band and they got on 'The Smothers Brothers Show' and 'Live at Hollywood Palace' TV shows raising their profile as they enjoyed a string of decent USA chart hits over 1966-68 they became a properly known band - if essentially a 'singles band' in the USA
they had enjoyed EIGHTEEN consecutive UK hits with Nash plus many overseas chart hits over 1963 to 1968 together with regular UK top thirty chart albums
then five more UK chart hits plus two further UK top thirty albums chart albums with Sylvester before Clarke exited the band in late 1971
'He Ain't Heavy' was a key stateside success proving there was 'life after Nash' for the band in 1969 too
it was Allan Clarke's voice singing 'Long Cool Woman' and also 'Long Dark Road' that saw them chart stateside in 1972 and LCW got them that USA tour in the first place
Tony Hicks has openly admitted he made a bad error turning down Allan Clarke's offer to do that 1972 USA tour
Terry Sylvester said of that 1972 tour; 'The Americans wanted Allan but we just didn't sound like that anymore...'
Bobby Elliott; 'that was a bland period for The Hollies...'
Bernie Calvert said; 'it was left to Tony and Terry to try to recreate as much of The Hollies sound as they could...'
Rod Shields (Hollies tour manager) said; 'Trying to find Mike onstage with a spotlight was like trying to find an escaping convict..!'
so latter day repeated attempted history re-writers should go argue with them...
'Magic Woman Touch' became their first UK single not to chart - Tony had to ask Allan Clarke to return and Mike was dropped from the band
Clarke's song 'Curly Billy' then put them back in the UK singles chart in 1973...then 'The Air That I Breathe' was their biggest UK and USA / worldwide hit since Clarke's 1971 solo vocal performance of LCW
so work it out from the FACTS for yourself what their peak period really was...
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Post by dirtyfaz on Dec 15, 2018 2:20:17 GMT
England Vs US. What a battle. Both sides have valid arguments.
Kinda difficult to judge an 18 month period against the rest of the Nash and Sylvester periods. Always going to be open to opinion. I still maintain the strongest period for the band performance wise was the Rickfors era and unfortunately all we have as a legacy is Romany and Out On The Road (not worldwide release). I feel the tracks from OOTR that were redone with Allan aren't as strong as the Rickfors versions (again my opinion). I am sure Moorlock isn't really comparing the singles band against the band that was trying to become a real LP/FM radio band. Fortunately both him and myself did actually see the Rickfors version live and no person from the UK that didn't see or get the chance to see will ever convince me they were not a better live performance band. A strong 4 instrumentalists v's 3. You can quote all the comments you wish from people within or near to the band about Mikael. They at that time (and probably still today) had a vested interest in putting down that period of the band. It's kinda sad cause they should embrace that time because it did really happen. The music was good and the harmonies were still in place, just Allan's voice was different to Mikaels. Their music from the start up to Another Night was excellent and started to fall away after that with each subsequent LP have more and more (for me) less listenable tracks
Everyone does want to make in in the US. Success there most certainly means wealth especially for the songwriters. I suggest Clarke has made motza money from Long Cool Woman in the US even though he was only a co writer.
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poco
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Post by poco on Dec 15, 2018 4:06:28 GMT
Dirtyfaz,
You hit the nail right on the head. I love the Rickfors period. BUT "Hollies 74" is a pop masterpiece.
Cameron, The Hollies had a 2 night stint at the Bottom Line May 9-10, 1975. Not 2 weeks. I was there for both shows on the 10th.
Moorlock is a Good Man. I have known him for 45 years now, seen his collection,second to none. Yes we had heated discussions also. I remember one over a Chinese dinner many years ago in New York City. LOL
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Post by Stranger on Dec 15, 2018 17:13:22 GMT
Does that mean a 2nd bootleg has emerged since that one turned up?
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Post by Stranger on Dec 15, 2018 17:14:33 GMT
The last college tour they did to my knowledge at least was in 1968 when Graham was still with them. They played East Coast colleges circa 1970/71 with Terry.
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poco
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Post by poco on Dec 15, 2018 20:59:56 GMT
As I remember only 2 colleges, the rest were clubs.
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Post by cameron on Dec 16, 2018 10:36:17 GMT
You can quote all the comments you wish from people within or near to the band about Mikael. They at that time (and probably still today) had a vested interest in putting down that period of the band. It's kinda sad cause they should embrace that time because it did really happen. The music was good and the harmonies were still in place, just Allan's voice was different to Mikaels. Their music from the start up to Another Night was excellent and started to fall away after that with each subsequent LP have more and more (for me) less listenable tracks I think this is a good point to make - Allan famously wouldn't acknowledge the Rickfors era at all, probably due to 'sour grapes' at not being on that US tour. Wasn't there a story of someone requesting 'Magic Woman Touch' at a show and Allan gave the audience member a snappy dressing down? Both Tony and Bobby very recently have been dismissive of the Rickfors era, particularly of Mikael himself. But to me, Mikael filled Allan's shoes a heck of a lot better than Peter Howarth does, who comparatively can seemingly do no wrong within the Hollies camp. Rickfors had such a hard-edged bluesy voice with so much soul. Not only that, he contributed some superb lead guitar all over 'Romany', he also played bass and keyboards. He contributed arguably one of the best songs on 'Romany', 'Touch', which was one of the few self-composed songs from any of the Hollies on the whole album. Although he dodged the spotlight, he was a bit of an enigma on stage, who certainly got people talking. All of the 'Out On The Road' tracks re-recorded for 'Hollies (1974)' were drastically inferior on the latter release, especially the title track, which I always skip over on 'Hollies (1974)'. That said, 'Hollies (1974)' had significantly higher high points with 'Don't Let Me Down', 'The Day That Curly Billy Shot Down Crazy Sam McGee' and 'The Air That I Breathe'. The production was also absolutely STUNNING. Sonically, 'Hollies (1974)' is one of their best studio albums. Mikael's voice, like Allan's, exuded class. Allan's solo career material was notoriously patchy, but his voice always carried the production through. To some extent, fans didn't care what he sang, so long as HE sang it. There's the old adage "Allan Clarke could sing the phone book and it would still sound good". Mikael Rickfors too had a lot of depth to his voice. His voice adapted to every song, just like Allan's. The only reason he was a bad choice was that he barely spoke English and his pronunciation caused them a lot of problems in the recording studio. But his vocals were exciting. Peter Howarth's delivery is so effortless, so pitch perfect, that it isn't exciting. He's like one of the great crooners, almost smug in his performance. There's no drama on stage, which is what you had with Allan and Miakel, as they strained to hit those high notes and naturally danced around to get the most out of their voice. You could clearly see that they were giving it all they had to bring you their best performance.
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Post by gee on Dec 16, 2018 13:37:00 GMT
all were getting here is the same old same old stuff that the same old guys have been regurgitating for over ten years now
some seem to think if they 'big up' "their version" of things it will somehow over time change the way the wider public regard The Hollies history - i.e. making out the abortive Rickfors era was THE era of the band, how they went to pieces after 1975, Howarth is useless etc
all this is really is just a handful of the same old people forever pushing their same old opinions as somehow being fact etc...
but in reality the wider public - and the group members - just DON'T agree or accept this opinionated view of a small handful of people however, then or now
so the endless same old posts bleating the same old views will go on and on, but in truth will change nothing !
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Post by stuball on Dec 16, 2018 17:07:10 GMT
From my admittedly North American perspective back in late '72 and early '73, I sensed the massive success of 'Long Cool Woman', as opposed to any other hit before it, had given The Hollies a massive chance of broad-based support across both the pop and rock world. Long Cool Woman garnered praise and heavy airplay from both the AM and, and far more importantly, from the FM market. The potential was there seemingly, to not be seen as an aging act who once every couple of years managed a hit single to keep themselves in the public eye for a couple of months, before once again fading quickly into obscurity. Successful FM acts sold massive amounts of albums and received respect from critics. Could The Hollies bridge these two markets? In the fall of '72, for the first time in their career this seemed, if not probable, at least within the realm of possibility. And I think this point is at the heart of the reason so many American and Canadian fans see the period of 'Long Cool Woman' 'Distant Light' and 'Romany' as the high water mark of the group: the potential of what might have been!
However, as we all know, that potential was never realized. In the AM market, Hollies singles became the story of diminishing returns, as 'Long Dark Road', 'Magic Woman Touch' and 'Jesus Was a Crossmaker' each fared progressively poorer. LP-wise, 'Romany', although getting glowing reviews and a good push from Epic, jumped onto the LP charts at #84, and stalled dead in its tracks.
And then there was the infamous American autumn tour. Afterward, back in England, Tony Hicks would complain: 'It was the same old story. All they (the American fans) wanted was the old hits again.' But there was a lot more wrong than that: too many consecutive slow songs, a lack of energy...and then there was The Raspberries debacle: a young, tight, energetic and entertaining group, blasting out their 9-song set and making the following 'main attraction' seem dull as ditchwater by comparison. So in late October The Hollies did two things right: they had The Raspberries dumped and changed up their set a bit, adding that rocking upbeat version of 'Long Dark Road' that has proved so popular on YouTube.
But still, the critics were not kind: 'where are the high and bouncy vocals?'' 'Terry Sylvester, hired to imitate Graham Nash, now has to imitate Allan Clarke.' 'Mikael Rickfors, singing his Ray Charles versions of 'Bus Stop' and 'He Ain't Heavy', Rickfors, cowering among the amps, away from the spotlight' 'the group, awkwardly changing instruments between songs', 'low energy set'. The critics were harsh.
However, the tour did improve through November, as the band worked out some of the kinks. But as late as the Santa Monica concert, Rolling Stone gave a devastating review : the group's milling around, no focal point, only getting the crowd going at the finale when they played LCW etc.
For The Hollies, the 1972-73 American period was a time of great potential, never realized. And in Britain, it was pretty much a disaster right out of the gate.
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Post by dirtyfaz on Dec 16, 2018 20:54:34 GMT
Gee, so you are not an old guy pushing your barrow as well.
Don't know if you understood my post or anyone elses for that matter, but I like all versions of the Hollies except the current one even though I am going to see them in February. All I continue to say is the Rickfors version of the band that I saw was musically (not vocally) the best. You didn't get to see that band so what would you know. Base all you opinions on written text by journalists that have agendas. Not everything you read is real especially in the Hollies world.
I don't think anyone including Moorlock would think otherwise about the general appeal of the band in the wider public area.
All folks do here is post their opinions even you although you can't help but be insulting at times. You aren't the most knowledgeable Hollies person on this site although no doubt your ego makes you think you are.
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poco
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Post by poco on Dec 17, 2018 0:09:39 GMT
Dirtyfaz you are the MAN !
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poco
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Post by poco on Dec 17, 2018 0:30:33 GMT
Does that mean a 2nd bootleg has emerged since that one turned up? Both shows are available.
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Post by eric on Dec 17, 2018 1:28:10 GMT
I wish to state that I respect all contributions to this forum and that I am very grateful for the knowledge shared here by its learned members. I have followed The Hollies for 53 years or so (yes, I am an old guy too) but since becoming a member of this forum I have learnt so much more about the band than ever before. So thank you all!
Whilst I love the “Romany” album and most of the Mikael Rickfors era recordings, I doubt that many people outside of the band’s fan base would have been overly impressed with this version of the band. Allan Clarke’s vocals are the foundation of all the band’s world-wide hits. It didn’t really matter if it were Nash or Sylvester by his side (although their parts were brilliant). No matter how accomplished Mikael Rickfors was, he, Carl Wayne and Peter Howarth could not, and cannot, match the majesty of Allan Clarke’s voice. In my view, the international hits with Clarke doing the lead vocals represent the career peaks of the Hollies.
From a performance perspective, I saw the Allan Clarke led band perform in 1970 and 1971 and the Rickfors version in 1973. This was in an era in the early Seventies when I was fortunate enough to see concerts by Led Zeppelin, The Rolling Stones, The Beach Boys, Bee Gees, Elton John, The Guess Who, Three Dog Night, Ike & Tina Turner, The Kinks, Eric Clapton and Jeff Beck. I understand that beauty is always in the eye of the beholder, but to me, the 1970 Clarke led Hollies concert was one of the most memorable concerts I have seen. Their 1971 concert was great too, but much less so the 1973 Rickfors one.
Notwithstanding my comments above, like dirtyfaz, I will be attending one of their Down Under concerts in February 2019. Can I hope to hear “What’s Wrong With The Way I Live” in the set?
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Post by dirtyfaz on Dec 17, 2018 3:42:48 GMT
Eric I respect your thoughts re the Rickfors visit to Australia. My thoughts and comments are based on the musical side of the band, not the overall sound of the band. Maybe the vocals weren't as strong as live gigs with Allan. It's all just opinions and we are all welcome to put our thoughts out there. Mostly I just let poor comments fly by. This is a great forum for information as many members have been Hollies fans almost since day dot. Lets respect each others opinions.
I have to apologise for my little outburst earlier today.
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Post by eric on Dec 17, 2018 6:35:28 GMT
Dirtyfaz, I agree with your view that the Rickfors era Hollies were very strong musically and their recorded work was of a high quality. They had some brilliant moments with harmonies too and the vocals on “Magic Woman Touch” and “The Last Wind” are amongst their best. The acoustic and electric guitar work on “The Last Wind” is also excellent. They had 3 Top 30 hits in just over a year in South Aussie so it is fair to say it wasn’t all bad news for them in this corner of the world.
Dirtyfaz, enjoy your Hollies concert in February. My concert in Adelaide is before yours so I will refrain from commenting on the set list until you have seen the show. Let’s hope there are a couple of new tunes included to freshen things up! Some of their songs that were not released as A sides in the UK but were hits in Aussie would be great. “Dear Eloise” and “Do The Best You Can” would be fantastic inclusions, along with “Magic Woman Touch”, which was a hit in Aussie.
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Post by cameron on Dec 17, 2018 12:41:46 GMT
I find this funny - the general consensus among Hollies fans is that we don't like the current line up, yet Dirtyfaz, Eric and myself are going to see them next year! In fact, I'm down for seeing them twice next year. And I was on my way to see them this year but my car broke down on the way! I've seen them twice before that too. Though the near identical setlist each time, year on year, does irritate me somewhat. With the promise of mixing up the setlist and delving into some of their deeper back catalogue like the Rolling Stones do, more of the diehard fans might follow them around a bit more. But they sell out every venue they book for, so I don't think they feel like they have to worry.
I guess we will always have the time for the Hollies' music, regardless of who's singing it. It's just a matter of remaining objective about it. Look how many of us bought the recent "Wishyouawish" compilation on Teensville Records, featuring a big array of covers of Hollies songs from 1965-1968. It's not Allan Clarke, but we still bought it. We all agree that no performance on there held a candle to the Hollies' original, except maybe the two Everly Brothers tracks, but we still liked it. Maybe the lack of new releases from the Hollies archives is what pushes us to seek out such albums, and buy the three albums that the Howarth fronted Hollies have put out.
I have said before, I think Peter Howarth cops for too much of the blame for the problem with the current line up, which ultimately is the weak falsetto harmonies, which aren't in the style of Graham Nash, Terry Sylvester or Alan Coates, who all had high tenor/alto voices naturally. The reason that the Hollies' sound carried on, even when Allan Clarke left in 1972 and 1978, is that they had that core of Tony's guitar work, Bobby's drums and that clear cut high harmony. They also usually replaced him with a throaty singer like Mikael Rickfors, very briefly Gary Brooker and Carl Wayne. They weren't Allan Clarke by any means, but they had that same powerful style of singing. Couple Peter Howarth's much softer and more controlled approach, plus the absence of that very clear soaring high harmony, and the Hollies' sound has disintegrated. It's now moved too much away from what they always tried to maintain it as for at least 40 years.
I think the answer to my first point is, really we keep going to see Bobby and Tony. If they retire, and the Hollies continue like the groups like the Marmalade and Tremeloes have with no original members, their fan base will disappear overnight.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2018 12:55:09 GMT
If they retire, and the Hollies continue like the groups like the Marmalade and Tremeloes have with no original members, their fan base will disappear overnight. That's not true regarding The Tremeloes. All members have gradually left the group over the years, then most of them have got back together... as The Tremeloes! Currently, Dave Munden, Chip Hawkes, Mick Clarke (also a former Rubette), and, occasionally, Rick West, are all touring:
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Post by cameron on Dec 17, 2018 13:00:01 GMT
If they retire, and the Hollies continue like the groups like the Marmalade and Tremeloes have with no original members, their fan base will disappear overnight. That's not true regarding The Tremeloes. All members have gradually left the group over the years, then most of them have got back together... as The Tremeloes! Currently, Dave Munden, Chip Hawkes, Mick Clarke (also a former Rubette), and, occasionally, Rick West, are all touring:
Dave Munden officially announced the end of the group after 50 years, back in 2017 via his website and Facebook page. His website has since closed down. His band, along with a new drummer, continue as 'The Trems'. Dave left to do a tour with Chip Hawkes and Brian Poole. Though none of the original members from the famous 1966-1972 line up are touring as 'the Tremeloes' at present.
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