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Post by cameron on Oct 21, 2018 12:48:40 GMT
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Post by moorlock2003 on Oct 23, 2018 19:45:13 GMT
If Evolution hasn't been remixed, then who cares? Thankfully, proper mixes of 11 of the Evolution tracks with balanced vocals was released on a Hansa label compilation. Has this been brought up by anyone else? As for the reissue of (Imperial) Greatest Hits, I'll believe it when I see it.
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Post by moorlock2003 on Oct 23, 2018 20:08:01 GMT
If Evolution hasn't been remixed, then who cares? Thankfully, proper mixes of 11 of the Evolution tracks with balanced vocals were released on a Hansa label compilation. Has this been brought up by anyone else? As for the reissue of (Imperial) Greatest Hits, I'll believe it when I see it.
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Post by dirtyfaz on Oct 25, 2018 8:09:41 GMT
Cam, pls explain more re that Hansa Evolution mix. Never heard of it.
Moorlock, if that 8th issue his the US track list and the Kellem version on it it may be interesting but if they just got to UK mixes then a waste of money.
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Post by moorlock2003 on Oct 25, 2018 17:04:07 GMT
Cam, pls explain more re that Hansa Evolution mix. Never heard of it. Moorlock, if that 8th issue his the US track list and the Kellem version on it it may be interesting but if they just got to UK mixes then a waste of money. The album is called "The Hollies" and was released on the SR International Hansa label. |
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Post by knut on Oct 27, 2018 5:49:19 GMT
I have the Dutch version of it.
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Post by moorlock2003 on Oct 29, 2018 16:27:05 GMT
I have the Dutch version of it. It is the only place to find decent mixes with centered vocals. It contains everything except "When Your Light's Turned On". I loathe hearing those lousy mixes with the vocals off to one channel. The regular Hansa issue of "Evolution" has the UK mixes. |
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Post by cameron on Oct 29, 2018 16:45:39 GMT
This LP has been in my want list for a very long time, but tends to turn up in poor condition due to the thin sleeve. It's quite hard to find too. It pulls a couple of tracks away from 'Evolution' and adds 'King Midas In Reverse', 'Signs That Will Never Change' and 'Carrie Anne'. I can't see it offering proper stereo mixes, otherwise EMI would have used them on subsequent releases. I expect it's just a phased stereo mix like 'Carrie Anne' was on 'Hollies Greatest Hits' on Hansa Records, where they pull the right vocal channel into the middle and make a phased mix of the left instrumental track.
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Post by moorlock2003 on Oct 31, 2018 11:20:07 GMT
It contains stereo versions which are much more listenable than either the UK stereo or mono mixes. The LP has shown up on Discogs. I found a clean copy of it there.
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Post by dirtyfaz on Dec 18, 2018 5:27:01 GMT
I got a copy of this LP as a follow up to this forum.
Every serious Hollies collector should have a copy of this. Alternate stereo mixes that are more pleasant to listen to than the common UK mix.
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poco
Junior Member
Posts: 86 
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Post by poco on Dec 19, 2018 3:34:50 GMT
Which Are ?
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Post by dirtyfaz on Dec 19, 2018 10:18:28 GMT
As Moorlock stated earlier in this post all the tracks from Evolution except "When Your Lights Turned On". It Contains Carrie Anne and King Midas on it as well. I think all tracks have a different stereo mix with vocals mainly in the centre except King Midas and it is the single version most likely enhanced for stereo.
I am intrigued as to how this particular mix got out there in Germany/Netherlands within a very short period after the Evolution LP was released. Who has the tapes now.
I am also intrigued as to how I only heard about this release in this post. 50 years after the event and I would consider myself to be have a reason knowledge of Hollies releases and their variations (alternate mixes).
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Post by cameron on Dec 22, 2018 9:39:42 GMT
My copy is on its way to me! To be honest, we know that there's millions of Hollies compilations out there, I tend to buy LPs that have a decent track list. So this LP has been on my wishlist for years, but since I didn't think it contained anything 'new', I've just been waiting to chance upon finding a copy in a shop or at a record fair. Of course, it's a really rare LP, so I've never seen a copy in person.
I can't believe it contains an alternative stereo mix for 'Evolution' on it!
My theory is that it was a rejected UK mix. Graham Nash mentioned in an interview that around the time of this album, the Hollies were getting into using the studio to their advantage, bouncing tracks down on the multi-track tape recorder to free up more space for overdubs. But like the Beatles, they only had a 4-track tape recorder at their disposal. However, they didn't have a George Martin at their disposal, who was always two steps ahead of whatever was going on. Creating masterful mono mixes within the 4-track with every bounce, so that the final stereo mix would be fairly balanced and fairly well spread between the two channels.
If you really listen to the stereo mix on this German LP, the mix is very imbalanced. Vocals centre, all the instruments on the left and then a lone bass track with a few overdubs on the right. My guess is that Ron bounced too much together to free up other tracks, so you end up with the backing track on track one, the bass on it's own on track two (for reasons of turning it up and down in the mix), the vocals on track three and any small percussion overdubs or orchestral overdubs on track four. Really, Ron should have coupled one of the guitars with the bass, as George Martin was doing with the Beatles.
To back up this theory, listen to the final UK mix of 'Then The Heartaches Begin'. Instruments on the left, vocals on the right, but in the middle of the song where there's no vocals, the bass pans over on it's own to the right.
So the German mix was created first, vetoed by EMI for being too imbalanced and vague, so they went with the older style vocals on the right, everything else on the left stereo mix because it emphasised the effect of stereo more, mixed to mono easier (for those playing LPs on mono turntables with a stereo wired for mono cartridge, and generally made the best of a bad situation. So the only way to properly remix 'Evolution' now, would be to re-sync up the pre-bounce tapes like they do with the Beatles' recent releases and separate out that mono backing track and spread it over both channels for a balanced stereo mix.
The standard German release of 'Evolution' on 'Hansa' records features the original UK mix, which Germany famously didn't like these heavily separated mixes ('For Certain Because...' issued on Odeon before 'Evolution' had a considerably narrower stereo field, despite having a decent stereo mix), so they may have asked EMI for a better mix, hence this re-mix we have here, which was probably rejected in the UK. Hansa didn't like it either, so it was shelved, and used up on this budget small release compilation LP at a later date either by accident or for the sake of using the remix on a release.
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Post by dirtyfaz on Dec 22, 2018 10:06:32 GMT
I guess today we can only guess as at how these mixes came out. I doubt there is anyone today that can confirm one way or the other.
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Post by cameron on Jan 5, 2019 11:18:40 GMT
My copy of 'The Hollies' (SR International) arrived over Christmas, and I've listened to it very carefully over and over again. It appears to me that it is kind of a fake stereo mix. They've copied the left instrumental channel to stereo, boosted the bass in one channel and turned all the other frequencies down and cut the bass but boosted the frequencies in the other channel. They've centralised the vocals over this. It sounds very convincing, they'd done the same with 'Carrie Anne' on the Hansa 'Hollies Greatest Hits'. There's not as much clear separation between the instrumentation as what there is in my stereo remix. Here's two of my remixes:
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