Was Eric Haydock considered for a full-time return in 1981?

[herriot]

Hi, as all will know the 1963-1966 Hollies line up reunited in 1981 for the Holliedaze TOTP performance: apparently at the BBCs insistence, (weird in a way as that line up  doesn't feature on 2 of the songs included in the medley!) however it was an interesting time for this to happen as both Terry and Bernie had just left: indeed soon after this performance Graham would indeed stay on until 1984; however I was wondering if the group considered or discussed keeping Eric on at this time as well? Anyone know anything more about this period? Was Eric just contracted for that show and no more or was a more sustained return on the cards at any point?

[gee]

Eric was invited to return for that BBC TV 'Top of The Pops' and took part in a publicity photo of the near original line up and the main Beat Boom hit makers of late 1963- early 1966 period

it has been rumoured that Eric was invited to play bass with them for the sessions that became 'What Goes Around...' album but Tony supposedly said;

'Eric just couldn't play bass in the modern style...'

which seems a bit lame - more likely it was a 'public excuse' to let Eric return home as The Hollies had already replaced Bernie Calvert first with Shadows bass player Alan Jones standing in for; 'I Don't Understand You', 'Carrie' and Driver'

then with Steve Stroud in 1981 - it seems very likely that it was Steve who played bass on Alan Tarney's 'Somethin' Ain't Right' which they recorded on 10 September 1981 at Audio International studio with Graham Nash first watching...then ending up singing backing vocals and enjoying himself alot sowing the seeds for the WGA reunion with Nash album

 Steve Stroud is credited as bass player on the following album on which 'Somethin' Ain't Right' appeared released in 1983 while Steve was earlier their regular touring band bass player at that time and appeared with The Hollies at Mainz Germany in 1982 from which the live versions of 'Write On' and 'Blowin in The Wind' on the Polydor '20 Years' CD

Steve Stroud was Hollies bass guitarist for the 1983 Australia tour and Steve appeared along with Alan Coates in The Hollies band line up reunited with Graham Nash for the resulting USA tour and the 'Archive Alive' / 'Reunion' live album of the Kings Head Park concert show which was released years later

so with a modern bass player like Steve Stroud in The Hollies touring band and recording with them probably from September 1981 it rather looks as if Eric Haydock's return was purely for the TV show to promote 'Holliedaze'which of course was an edited medley prepared from existing tapes thus Eric never played on it in 1981 as such

they may have had a session or a rehearsal with Eric to see how it went etc, but if so they clearly didn't want to continue with Eric's participation

in view of the fact they had parted company under strained circumstances dismissing Eric in 1966 (even tho' Eric then came back for a 'one off' spot to do 'Bus Stop' on BBC's 'Top of The Pops' in June 1966) I would think Tony would go with Steve Stroud rather than Eric (that is a proven and known to be reliable  'hired hand' rather than an original member who pre-dated Hicks and Elliott in the band who had 'previous issues' with the group)

that isn't to say Eric wasn't still a great bass player who very likely COULD have played bass in any style !

just my view here but I suspect it's likely how it transpired

[JamesT]

Good post and something I'd wondered about. Was poor Bernie not told he couldn't play in a modern style too? Steve Stroud's playing was ideal for the era. Imagine letting him away with a bit of bass noodling on LCW?!

[gee]

Yes Bernie was I'm afraid ! - by Shadows guitarist Bruce Welch when producing 'I Don't Understand You' for them over April - June 1981

Bruce (who himself nearly had been booted out of The Shadows by producer Norrie Paramor back in 1958 - but Hank insisted his friend remain in the group !) bluntly told Tony Hicks to 'ditch your bass player' - again for not being 'modern' enough !

Ron Richards had spoken rather unkindly about 'burying Bernie's bass in the mix' on Hollies tracks (tho' a listen tells you he did not)

Tony like Hank Marvin in 1958 refused to ditch Bernie, the sessions led to Bernie being replaced by Shadows bass player Alan Jones....then nothing released

Allan Clarke said; 'we left with our tails between our legs'

Terry's then sudden walking out gave Bernie the chance to hand in his resignation a few days later - clearly Bernie (with a marriage collapsing like Nash had back in 1968) felt everything was going wrong then.

Bruce Welch comments obviously hit home....and Bernie was off but by his own choice, The Hollies never sacked him

[cameron]

I absolutely resent the 1980s for much of the "out with the old, in with the new" attitude. It was this era that literally drove James Jamerson to his death, as his style wasn't "modern". Now, we quite rightly regard Jamerson as one of THE top bassists of all time - he's certainly in the top five. In fact, I'd go out on a limb and suggest that he IS the best bass player of all time, contributing all those absolutely astounding wandering riffs to so many Motown records. His reluctance to change his unique style and subsequent loss of session work drove him to an alcohol influenced death in 1983.

And back to the Hollies - their approach to try and remain relevant manifested in the absolute worst era of their studio recordings. I'd actually take the two Peter Howarth era albums over just about all of their 1980s output. Horrible dated synths, horrible treatment of Bobby's drums, poor songs with no real hooks and little opportunity for Tony Hicks to work his fretboard. It was an absolutely dire time for the group. But I don't understand why, because Allan's solo LPs of 1980 and 1990 stand up a lot better than anything the Hollies did in the 1980s, especially "Legendary Heroes".

At what point did the Hollies lose their way so much? In the 1960s, they seemed to cover a whole manor of song styles in their own style: strong three-way harmonies, Tony's lead guitar and Bobby's unique jazz-influenced drumming. I don't think they tried hard enough to think outside of the box after the mid-1970s, with a tendency to try and adapt their sound to suit the in-sound of the time. Some of those 1980s recordings are barely recognisable as the Hollies. Even through their psychedelic era in the late 1960s, everything they did very much still sounded like the Hollies. They needed to stick to finding songs with great hooks and riffs and giving it the Hollies treatment with a modern production, rather than deliberately trying to plaster synthesisers all over it.

[gee]

I agree Cameron and my guess - and it's just my guess ! - is that several things contributed to their musical direction in the 80's

Minus Nash they had no real 'leader' re musical direction - true psychedelia didn't last long but briefly in 1967 they were musically and image wise firmly in keeping with the mood of the times as opposed to just the deliberate 'faceless image' they overall preferred - thus by the mid to later 70's I suspect the band set up was the three 'senior' Hollies of Clarke, Hicks, Elliott with old pal Calvert and still seen as the 'new boy' too much Sylvester

they rated Terry of course and he was a key figurehead doing radio interviews and some PR work for them plus was a major contributor song wise but I suspect he could only offer ideas and hope some were taken up by the 'committee' of the three senior band members I think held sway once they parted with Ron Richards

Tony had become overall group manager while Robin Britten was personal manager - Tony hired and fired and had suggested many top hits he'd found at the publishers back in the sixties plus suggested them doing 'Dylan' which made no.3 in the UK in 1969 plus along with Tony's find of 'He Ain't Heavy' single ensured the band firmly survived post Nash - so Tony was probably chief Hollie with his brother-in-law Bobby his right hand man

Allan Clarke never wanted to lead the band he'd co-founded just 'front it' and obviously after his 1971 exit and return was probably the most junior of the three 'senior' Hollies !

Clarke suggested they do 'Buddy Holly' - which flopped badly at the time further undermining Clarke's position (shades of Nash after 'King Midas' in the sixties) and probably contributed to Terry leaving I suspect along with all the other 'issues' a major one I think being lack of input to their musical direction which by early 1981 must have been doing Terry's head in as back in late 1968 a frustrated Nash had also felt faced with 'singing Dylan' ahead of him....the result being each 'walked' from the group

this top three members 'committee' I suspect that existed within The Hollies was probably the reason they became very slow at making important decisions often missing out on playing shows that would have lifted their public profile, faded away from UK television, released some less than memorable singles, and generally became so out of touch with what was happening in music and hence why we got slow ballad after slow ballad as singles in the main (as they had last given them major success re; He Ain't Heavy / Can't Tell The Bottom / Air That I Breathe etc)

- they probably saw the USA success of 'Long Cool Woman' as a bit of a fluke ! - it wasn't down to them but the guy at Epic records who decided to put it out in 1972 (similar to the later 1988 UK no.1 with 'He Ain't Heavy' which was down to the TV commercial not The Hollies actions)

another example of them going very 'set in their ways' was that they used to have an introductory act who were named 'Waterfall' open their shows - they were a couple of guys, a girl (and a toy rabbit drummer !), they were a pleasant act but seemed to feature tour after tour until some fans were FED UP seeing them ! - one lady I know suggested to Tony they CHANGE the opening act...and got a surprised look back, it seems it simply did not occur to Tony the show was getting STALE and PREDICTABLE then...

also in the later seventies / eighties shows we got 'Draggin My Heels' expanded into a increasingly ever lengthy keyboard solo by first Peter Arnesen later Denis Haines  - a friend of mine yawned and told me it should be titled; 'Draggin' my Keyboards' ! - he expected Hollies hits NOT some 'Gary Numan wannabe' as he put it...

As time went on  they  began copying current musical trends somewhat with Clarke very Springsteen inspired and doing the slow ballads - hence '5317704' and the slow ballad top heavy 'Crazy Steal' in the later seventies....and in the 80's then largely went 'all keyboardy' from 'Buddy Holly' onwards

that flop saw Polydor lose interest and by the time 'Holliedaze' gave them another rather 'fluke' hit - and led to Nash's short return to the band - it was keyboards, keyboards, keyboards (The Searchers went the same way on their 'Hungry Hearts' album and The Tremeloes on their version of 'Words Don't Come Easy' while The Shadows added Cliff Hall on keyboards and he over dominated their sound post John Farrar era in their weaker tho' successful 'covers' Polydor period)

so the keyboards sound was happening across the board in the 80's - The Moody Blues went synth pop (against 80's era keyboardist Patrick Moraz wishes it should be stated) and had a couple of very big eighties albums that some of their older fans largely disliked

Jethro Tull possibly having a 'midlife crisis' surprisingly went all synth / keyboards / drum programming on their album 'Under Wraps' - much to many of their fans horror, with just the track 'Under Wraps no.2' being properly played totally on 'real' instruments and stood out like a beacon in a sea of synthetic blandness (I felt)


plus most of the 'veteran' sixties/seventies survivor bands seemed to feel they needed to desperately prove how 'modern' and relevant they all still were - which clearly reflects the state of the 'musak' industry then (and probably ever since)

so this is probably why The Hollies put keyboards first alot - they had sidemen keyboard players from the mid seventies in fact - and the more synth led sound plus slower ballads dominated their recorded output over 1978 to Clarke's retirement in 1999

Guitar led Rockers such as their driving version of 'That'll Be The Day', 'Burn Out', and later 'Laughter Turns To Tears' plus powering songs like 'Crossfire' etc were either only used as 'B' sides, 'bonus' 12 inch single tracks or left on albums

instead of concentrating on the band's clear instrumental strengths of Tony's guitar (often sidelined for keyboards,a trumpet or orchestration on a solo) and Bobby's drums (replaced by the dreaded drum machine at times later) they opted to try and sound 'contemporary' too often which now I think makes a fair amount of the latter Clarke era recordings sound somewhat dated musically compared to their still fresh sounding sixties / seventies guitar led numbers

Another major factor was the lack of an independent record producer, a younger figure to succeed Ron Richards, someone who could have kept them far more on course over the seventies and eighties - self producing cost them I feel as while cheaper they lacked an outside voice to point out how 'set in their ways' they had increasingly become over time

plus Record companies Polydor and EMI didn't seem to bother or care the path The Hollies later took - maybe as on a business level the 'Hollies Limited' were too in control and shrewd that the record companies knew they would not be able to dictate that much to them by the seventies

just look how POOR the band's image later was - Allan's medallion man look with bare chest, frizzy perm (that may have cost him his hair !) and Donny Osmond white suits....Bobby's black cat hairpiece ! and Bernie with his 'comb over' look - only Tony and Terry looked good while a few album sleeves were poor too, notably 'Hollies Live Hits' (which made no.4 in the UK chart in 1977),'A Crazy Steal' and 'Buddy Holly' sets

and in the 80's Clarke attempted to look like a teenager for 'This is it' !

so in several aspects, musical direction, production, focus on keyboards and synth strings, visual image etc they became rather at odds with the more relevant rock style that surely overall would have suited them better and kept them more in general fashion with music buyers beyond just their devoted fanbase

Allan's solo career was kept as an ironic 'sideshow' but surely had The Hollies ventured more into that idiom, plus utilised Terry Sylvester more, and / or later Alan Coates (a decent songwriter and fine guitarist per Allan's 'Reasons To Believe' album) together with Ray Stiles studio abilities they COULD have kept far more playing to their obvious group strengths

just my view....

[cameron]

Oct 17, 2018 10:21:25 GMT gee said:

As time went on  they  began copying current musical trends somewhat with Clarke very Springsteen inspired and doing the slow ballads - hence '5317704' and the slow ballad top heavy 'Crazy Steal' in the later seventies....and in the 80's then largely went 'all keyboardy' from 'Buddy Holly' onwards

plus most of the 'veteran' sixties/seventies survivor bands seemed to feel they needed to desperately prove how 'modern' and relevant they all still were - which clearly reflects the state of the 'musak' industry then (and probably ever since)

Whilst I agree with what you're saying, I don't understand for a second why they all thought this. What cliched view of the music industry did all these guys have? Look at some of the biggest artists of the late 1970s/early 1980s... Fleetwood Mac, Queen, Eagles etc... DIDN'T rely on synths for the most part for their records. Certainly not anywhere near the extent of the Hollies. They played to the core strengths of the band. 

And that, brings me neatly onto the real reason why the Hollies later "totally disintegrated" to quote Allan Clarke, because they forgot who they were. Primarily a strong three-way vocal group with the soaring high harmony, secondly a vehicle for Tony's driving riffs and complex guitar parts and thirdly, a showcase for the unrivalled drum talents of Bobby Elliott. Tony got outed for the synthesiser, Bobby got outed for the drum machine and the simple rigid monotonous drum sounds of the 1980s, and they never bounced back. With Coates gone, they lost that soaring harmony. Although Bobby and Tony seem to have their mojo back (and how great is it to see Tony take a solo before "Stop! Stop! Stop!" and "The Baby" in concert now?!), they've still lost that high harmony. It's there, but very weak. I gave "Staying Power" a thorough listen to the other day after my comments about preferring it over their 1980s output, but it could have been anyone. It sounds even less like the Hollies than they did in the Rickfors era. 

[gee]

I think they just seemed to believe that keyboards were THE big thing at that point - Pete Wingfield dominated 'Buddy Holly' re the arrangements then in 1981 Brian Chatton played his 'keytar' on 'Take My Love And Run'

plus something of a creative hiatus seemed to hit them to an extent notably for Tony Hicks - the 'What Goes Around' album saw them rely on Paul Bliss songs for most of the 'new' tracks - both Mike Batt and Alan Tarney songs dated from a bit earlier (two of the best numbers each guitar led) as did the re-cut of Chatton's song

while Paul Bliss songs were o.k. they certainly wern't anything better than what Clarke or Hicks themselves could do...indeed with a Hollies version of Nash's 'Wasted on The Way' and 'Teach Your Children' added WGA including  a couple of Clarke and Hicks songs could have and should have been a longer stronger set

- they certainly could have covered Allan Clarke's solo numbers like 'Slipstream', 'Walls', 'Shadow In The Street', or 'Who ?' and maybe done a 'Nash version' of Gary Benson's 'Sanctuary' plus included 'Let Her Go Down' which boasted strong vocal harmonies and a decent Hicks guitar solo

likewise re 'Staying Power' which was over reliant on Rob Davis songs - tho' probably better than Bliss numbers the drum programming let that album down in my view - note Bobby's REAL drums lifted the following studio album's sound a great deal

Tony Hicks lack of new songs is the biggest disappointment for the current band I feel

re their harmony sound - I do so wonder what that once pictured Peter Howarth-Tony Hicks-Alan Coates Hollies might have sounded like vocally ??

Steve Lauri is a decent guitarist and lead vocalist, however his high harmony voice is more falsetto based and doesn't 'soar' as Nash, Sylvester or Coates  each did (and Allan Clarke when he took the high harmony) which is a big difference today I feel

- yes the vocals are tight and it's a unified vocal sound but I just do not hear a distinctive 'soaring' high harmony voice in there now - unlike each previous incarnation of The Hollies