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Post by dirtyfaz on Mar 27, 2018 21:18:35 GMT
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Post by Tony Wilkinson on Mar 28, 2018 6:17:42 GMT
What an interesting read... Plenty of positive, knowledgeable , thoughtful comments there.... Of course they wouldn't have been any better re the lyrics, as we all know it was because of the melodies and harmonies that probably drew most of us to their wonderful music..... In fact, the closer you listen to the lyrics you hear how they are sometimes way above many of their contempories... |
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Post by cameron on Mar 31, 2018 12:18:50 GMT
In fact, the closer you listen to the lyrics you hear how they are sometimes way above many of their contempories... I couldn't agree more! When Clarke/Hicks/Nash were on their hot streak from 1966-1968, virtually NONE of their lyrics rhymed. It's incredibly difficult to keep up the metre of the lyric when it doesn't fall into rhyming couplets. Even in 1967, I think they hit their peak with "All The World Is Love" which has visual rhymes like "love" and "move". Absolute genius. - Let's not also forget that they were writing about over-population and ecology in "Too Many People" as early as 1965 (when the Beatles, if you remember, were still pretty much exclusively writing songs about love and girls). - They wrote about Astral Projection in "Try It" in 1967. - "King Midas In Reverse" is an incredibly personal introspective song, as is "Stop Right There". - The Hollies were as risque as discussing cheating with a woman in "When Your Light's Turned On" in early 1967! - Some of the more obscure songs include the delightfully twee "High Classed" which covered dating a woman in a higher social standing. - "Confessions Of A Mind" covers the feeling of wanting to play away from home from your wife/girlfriend but then coming to your senses - I'm pretty sure "Pull Down The Blind" is talking about being depressed - and finally I think "I'm Down" is one of the very best songs they ever wrote, lyrically speaking, as it talks from the point of view of an adopted child wanting to find their 'real' parents. Whereas the Beatles and Rolling Stones tended to write more abstract lyrics, usually telling a made-up tale, the Hollies seemed to keep it more real. Though as usual, they're criminally overlooked for it and weren't noted for it when it was their heyday. Everyone wanted more in the vain of "On A Carousel" and "Jennifer Eccles" which the Hollies only wrote as a blatant stab at commercialism. |
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Post by moorlock2003 on May 1, 2018 4:11:01 GMT
The best songs on For Certain Because are incredibly perceptive and sophisticated. What's wrong with the way I Live is an amazing song lyrically, as are Tell Me To My Face and Peculiar Situation. I have a particular fondness for Clown and Pay You Back with Interest (especially in mono with Clarke's double-tracked vocal.) Nobody can convince me of any deficiency in the lyrics department when there are so many examples of their brilliance in writing on numerous albums but on FCB they first illustrated what they were capable of. I think the issue gets muddled because the band didn't have just one or two writers like most groups, and they recorded songs by outside writers all along.
I think The Hollies would have "been bigger" if, for instance, their American record company (Epic) had done more to promote the band. There should have been a live album from the 1972 tour. That would have done wonders for their reputation as a great live act. The return of Allan Clarke should have been celebrated with a full-fledged tour of the states. Missed opportunities hampered their continued popularity.
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Post by gee on May 1, 2018 14:08:54 GMT
'So Lonely' - is about the sheer desperation and dejection of a lost relationship
'Hard Hard Year' - speaks of losing heart and wanting to die as someone's world caves in on them...but surviving into a new season and chapter in life proves there IS a light at the end of the tunnel...
'Too Many People' - re the reality and inevitability of death itself...
'When I Come Home To You' - despite it's offbeat key changes taken at full speed, the lyrics refer to a fast failing relationship and mistrust that makes even coming home a dreaded scenario....but as a counterpoint it's sung in cheery harmonised Hollies tones !
'Oriental Sadness' / 'She'll Never Trust in Anybody No More' - re the shattering of trust and confidence in a once innocent but now betrayed love's mind...but the key point lyrically is she has been lied too
'I've Got A Way of My Own' - asserting one's own identity and self belief / worth over the conditioning being forced upon one ("I can't believe that the reason their giving will entice me to go, why then deny me the right to start living..oh I'll just never know..")
- complete with an interesting sudden switch from 'first person' (Nash on the verses) to 'third person' (Clarke on the bridge) "come back when YOU'VE time for the world...they must think..'
even the seemingly silly and hilarious 'Fifi The Flea' (!) despite it's absurd lyrical stance...is a soap opera tragic tale of a denied love directly leading to death...then another responding death ! (pure Romeo & Juliet tragedy)
'Don't Run and Hide' - is re self worth and rising above the unkind put downs by others - ever more real in this modern world of internet bullying upsetting so many especially children and teenagers
both 'Heading For A Fall' and 'Would You Believe' deal with the mesmerising affect of being obsessed by someone even knowing it may be not in your best interest overall
few others besides maybe Bob Dylan, Ray Davies etc were writing and 'observing'- and in some songs switching from first person to third person within a song - in songwriting in 1965-66 etc as Hollies original songs besides experimenting instrumentally and re song musical structures were lyrically quite profound with a sophistication and maturity that was ahead of their ages then
The Everly Brothers certainly recognised that song writing quality hence picking all those Hollies originals, 'B' sides and album tracks, for covering on their 'Two Yanks in England' album in 1966
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albatros
Full Member
albatros
Posts: 108
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Post by albatros on Jun 15, 2019 12:54:54 GMT
Moorlock2003-Fred I agree with you. For Certain Because was the first great album of the Hollies. It is still one of my 3 favorite albums of the Hollies. The quality was as good as the Beatles maybe even better. Tell Me To My Face - was often covered, Peculiar Situation, Pay You Back .. the whole album did not have a single failure. From the beginning to the end a brilliant album. The hollies had the best singers - harmonies. They have the potential to be the best one at this time - the early 60th.
The problem of the Hollies in my opinion was the management of the band. If the Hollies had a manager like the Beatles - my god. What also often did not fit was the promotion of their record companies - yes, especially in the US. Whether the publication of a live album in 1972 would have brought much, I doubt. Same with a live album with Allan Clarke. Promotion is often the alpha and omega. The Hollies often did not have that and what was still negative: The Hollies had no image. The Hollies were just too good, good boys. Groups like the Stones or the Who lived mainly from such negative image. I´M ALSO SURE. If Clarke had not left the Hollies in 1971/72, the Hollies would still have been one of the top bands on the charts. There were more hit songs on the DISTANT LIGHT album. A Little Thing Like Love Or Do To with Love. Without the departure of Clarke, we just would not have had the time with Rickfors. I really like the Hollies with Rickfors. Especially the album OUT ON THE ROAD. The Hollies were definitely more versatile with Rickfors.Proof of how well the Hollies were live in concert with Rickfors are the recordings of ABC from 1973. Just brilliant.
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Post by anthony on Jun 15, 2019 23:37:25 GMT
Moorlock2003-Fred I agree with you. For Certain Because was the first great album of the Hollies. It is still one of my 3 favorite albums of the Hollies. The quality was as good as the Beatles maybe even better. Tell Me To My Face - was often covered, Peculiar Situation, Pay You Back .. the whole album did not have a single failure. From the beginning to the end a brilliant album. The hollies had the best singers - harmonies. They have the potential to be the best one at this time - the early 60th. The problem of the Hollies in my opinion was the management of the band. If the Hollies had a manager like the Beatles - my god. What also often did not fit was the promotion of their record companies - yes, especially in the US. Whether the publication of a live album in 1972 would have brought much, I doubt. Same with a live album with Allan Clarke. Promotion is often the alpha and omega. The Hollies often did not have that and what was still negative: The Hollies had no image. The Hollies were just too good, good boys. Groups like the Stones or the Who lived mainly from such negative image. I´M ALSO SURE. If Clarke had not left the Hollies in 1971/72, the Hollies would still have been one of the top bands on the charts. There were more hit songs on the DISTANT LIGHT album. A Little Thing Like Love Or Do To with Love. Without the departure of Clarke, we just would not have had the time with Rickfors. I really like the Hollies with Rickfors. Especially the album OUT ON THE ROAD. The Hollies were definitely more versatile with Rickfors.Proof of how well the Hollies were live in concert with Rickfors are the recordings of ABC from 1973. Just brilliant. agree 100% re management plus in many ways the Hollies were just a nice band playing the nice songs, while groups were growing their hair long and wearing jeans the Hollies were in white suites. I don't believe this helped their cause. I really like the Rickfors Era but it was just so awkward, Funny in that 7 song show Terry and Tony do most of the lead singing, If I'm correct Rickfors only sings lead on Bus Stop and Heavy. It sure was a fuller sound. A live Album would have been good, Just a question was that Fred Cooper you mentioned. I remember seeing a photo of him in a Hollies fan mag surrounded by his Hollies collection.
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poco
Junior Member
Posts: 86 
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Post by poco on Jun 16, 2019 3:02:04 GMT
Fred Cooper forgot more than you guys will ever learn.
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Post by anthony on Jun 16, 2019 5:16:56 GMT
Fred Cooper forgot more than you guys will ever learn. Yes Poco its amazing how much people here know about the Hollies, I'm no good with all the facts and figures, just know what I like, I know some can give dates years, who did what, all I know is if I like that song, like the guitar solo, or Allan is sounding great. I know enough to get me through. I am confidant to give my views on any Hollies topic. Seen the Hollies 16 times first being 1974 so not a Johnny come lately fan too. Maybe that would be a good topic how much into the Hollies are you, Thanks for your view poco.
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Post by dirtyfaz on Jun 16, 2019 11:50:26 GMT
Like Poco says, Fred has forgotten more that most others here will ever know or learn. There are many more that have been around for a long time and have lots of knowledge but don't put themselves out there. Poco is one of those guys as well.
I also happen to feel For Certain Because is a brilliant LP and to my mind better that Butterfly. Butterfly is too psychedelic and whimsical for me even though it does contain some great songs. Evolution is also under rated.
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Post by anthony on Jun 16, 2019 22:48:00 GMT
Like Poco says, Fred has forgotten more that most others here will ever know or learn. There are many more that have been around for a long time and have lots of knowledge but don't put themselves out there. Poco is one of those guys as well. I also happen to feel For Certain Because is a brilliant LP and to my mind better that Butterfly. Butterfly is too psychedelic and whimsical for me even though it does contain some great songs. Evolution is also under rated. I did a bit of trade with Fred Cooper many years ago, he sold me a signed Hollies LP, I sent him a newspaper article about the upcoming Rickfors tour in Australia. I remember it well, |
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Post by moorlock2003 on Jun 22, 2019 16:33:02 GMT
Like Poco says, Fred has forgotten more that most others here will ever know or learn. There are many more that have been around for a long time and have lots of knowledge but don't put themselves out there. Poco is one of those guys as well. I also happen to feel For Certain Because is a brilliant LP and to my mind better that Butterfly. Butterfly is too psychedelic and whimsical for me even though it does contain some great songs. Evolution is also under rated. The personal yet universal writing style the band was featuring on For Certain Because was cast aside by psychedelia, with all of its whimsy. Sing Hollies brought it back a bit, but by then Nash was gone so his unique insight was missed. |
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poco
Junior Member
Posts: 86
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Post by poco on Jun 22, 2019 21:11:38 GMT
Fred Cooper forgot more than you guys will ever learn. Yes Poco its amazing how much people here know about the Hollies, I'm no good with all the facts and figures, just know what I like, I know some can give dates years, who did what, all I know is if I like that song, like the guitar solo, or Allan is sounding great. I know enough to get me through. I am confidant to give my views on any Hollies topic. Seen the Hollies 16 times first being 1974 so not a Johnny come lately fan too. Maybe that would be a good topic how much into the Hollies are you, Thanks for your view poco.
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poco
Junior Member
Posts: 86
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Post by poco on Jun 22, 2019 21:19:28 GMT
16 times since 1974, you are a seasoned vet. That's great. The Hollies did not do 6 gigs here in the USA since 1975. LOL The Hollies are my favorite group followed by the Kinks. (I saw them over 35 times since 1969) I am willing to share anything you guys need or want.
Fred, Dirty Faz and myself have been around the block with greedy collectors for almost 50 years. I guess we get a little gun shy.
Take Care.
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Post by moorlock2003 on Jun 25, 2019 3:11:26 GMT
16 times since 1974, you are a seasoned vet. That's great. The Hollies did not do 6 gigs here in the USA since 1975. LOL The Hollies are my favorite group followed by the Kinks. (I saw them over 35 times since 1969) I am willing to share anything you guys need or want. Fred, Dirty Faz and myself have been around the block with greedy collectors for almost 50 years. I guess we get a little gun shy. Take Care. Mark (poco), Chris (dirty faz), and I are among the top fans, maintaining our interest and enthusiasm after all these years. Mark had an amazing LP collection which he sold and I have an awesome collection of 45s which I will carry to the grave, but then I have many prime rare LPs too. Cassettes too (who else has a UK Romany cassette?) I would have seen The Hollies more times than the 4 concerts I attended, but the band did not cooperate due to laziness regarding touring. While the band was making strides on the singles AND all-important album charts in the US, the band was too busy worrying where their next UK hit was coming from. It was a big mistake to carry too many eggs in one basket like that, which was the chicken-in-a-basket cabaret scene. They were much better than that. The potential was there for them to become a very popular band but they just failed to put in the extra effort. Record company promotion helps but it's the band that has to do the leg work and get itself out in front of the public. |
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