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Post by Stranger on Dec 22, 2020 10:40:20 GMT
I was surprised when it turned up on TV on Sky the other night as they also regularly enough show another recent Bee Gees documentary, both of which seem to use interview footage from the major one from the early 2000s. It does feel like 3 edits of the same thing.
The new one had some of the best footage and best interviews of the three but was the most unbalanced! It had even less to say about the "wilderness years" from about '71 to '74, a period I find pretty interesting. It is usually glossed over. I did enjoy finally getting to hear from Alan Kendall as he seemed to have been with them for so long. I found his comment about never really knowing Robin kind of strange considering they must have been in very close proximity for 30 years!
For what I thought might be the definitive documentary, it really ignored and telescoped so much. 1980 to 2001, basically ignored. There were lots of great bits of music produced in those years including, as mentioned, You Win Again. A great comeback. The end felt really rushed, with just title cards on the deaths of the brothers. I recall one of the earlier documentaries being much more poignant on Andy's death, for example.
It also felt like 20 minutes was devoted to the disc burning/disco demolition.
The band seriously needs a 3/4 hour documentary to do justice to it's story.
On a Hollies note what struck me was the little section on Maurice meeting his wife at Bately Variety Club when they were at a low ebb. It made me think of the Hollies having to send Terry to "bounce" Maurice as he was making a nuisance of himself. To think 3 years later, he would be one of the biggest stars in the world...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2020 10:55:04 GMT
It made me think of the Hollies having to send Terry to "bounce" Maurice as he was making a nuisance of himself. To think 3 years later, he would be one of the biggest stars in the world... Eh? I don't think I've heard that story!
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Post by baz on Dec 22, 2020 11:06:19 GMT
I found his comment about never really knowing Robin kind of strange considering they must have been in very close proximity for 30 years! I guess that was the documentary maker's way of backing up that Robin was a rather private and enigmatic bloke as we did see a short bit where Robin admitted being distant and difficult to get to know. A film about Robin would be interesting as from all I've read about him, he was the oddest Gibb of them all who I think was more traumatised by their early fame than Barry and Maurice were... that rail disaster in late 1967 which he survived certainly seemed to throw him off upon a neurotic path. A singer who could definitely be called "unique" and all the more remarkable how when paired up with Barry and Maurice's voices produced THOSE harmonies. Now that would be interesting - a comparison between the harmonies of the Gibbs and The Hollies and how they worked to produce such unique blends. You hear The Hollies harmonies and you know it's The Hollies, likewise with the Bee Gees yet the sounds they made are so different. In spite of its faults, the documentary was a timely reminder of the uniqueness of the Gibb brothers and had me digging through their catalogue again. A lot of great material in there!
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Post by baz on Dec 22, 2020 11:07:20 GMT
It made me think of the Hollies having to send Terry to "bounce" Maurice as he was making a nuisance of himself. To think 3 years later, he would be one of the biggest stars in the world... Eh? I don't think I've heard that story! Me neither... was this something Terry mentioned on Twitter sometime?
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Post by Stranger on Dec 22, 2020 12:12:40 GMT
Eh? I don't think I've heard that story! Me neither... was this something Terry mentioned on Twitter sometime? It's in Bobby's autobiography.
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Post by thejanitor on Dec 22, 2020 12:24:40 GMT
Yeah just seen a few clips that feature the younger celebrity interviewees. It's a nice way of showing their ongoing influence I guess, but I would prefer if they'd gone more with contemporaries and related artists from around their original heyday periods of the 60s and 70s (Lulu, Barbara Streisand, Dolly Parton, Frankie Valli, Brian Wilson are a few names that would've been cool to see talking about them, heck maybe even Allan!).
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Post by Mevrouw Bee on Dec 22, 2020 13:27:53 GMT
So, in other words, another music documentary that didn't target music geeks like us, just the ordinary joe.
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Post by The Dude on Dec 22, 2020 16:09:22 GMT
A surprise to see Vince Melouney and some new emotional comments from Barry but did we really need Noel Gallagher and Chris Martin? I am surprised boring Bono wasn't in this. He's usually in every other documentary, delivering his unimportant, useless opinion. He is not an expert and certainly not a musician. He (and that band of his) is crap. The epitomy of bad 80s "music'.
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Post by Mevrouw Bee on Dec 22, 2020 19:24:51 GMT
I am surprised boring Bono wasn't in this. He's usually in every other documentary, delivering his unimportant, useless opinion. He is not an expert and certainly not a musician. He (and that band of his) is crap. The epitomy of bad 80s "music'. Don't hold back, dear. Tell us what you really think!
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Post by baz on Dec 22, 2020 22:52:29 GMT
I am surprised boring Bono wasn't in this. He's usually in every other documentary, delivering his unimportant, useless opinion. He is not an expert and certainly not a musician. He (and that band of his) is crap. The epitomy of bad 80s "music'. lol... know that feeling as I can't abide Mr Hewson either - I guess we should also be thankful Gordon Sumner didn't grace us with an appearance as he's popped up in a few as well with useless and pretentious opinions, the most recent being a BBC4 doc from earlier this year on Eric Burdon.
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Post by The Dude on Dec 22, 2020 23:27:14 GMT
lol... know that feeling as I can't abide Mr Hewson either - I guess we should also be thankful Gordon Sumner didn't grace us with an appearance as he's popped up in a few as well with useless and pretentious opinions, the most recent being a BBC4 doc from earlier this year on Eric Burdon. To be honest... I'd value his opinion first...
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Post by cameron on Jan 10, 2021 22:20:41 GMT
Just still catching up on some threads here... I watched the Bee Gees documentary a few days ago and I really enjoyed it. I'm a fairly big Bee Gees fan, mostly their early Polydor works up to around the time of the 'To Whom It May Concern' album (1971, I believe?). Of course, I have their disco era stuff, but for me it's a bit done to death so I don't listen to it that often. Though 'Live At Last' is one of my favourite live LPs. They were SUCH a tight band.
I learnt a lot from the documentary, and I felt like it was a good balance of interviews with relevant band members and I'm surprised at how much archive footage they had. I felt that, although it starts and ends with new footage of Barry, Maurice and Robin equally told the story. I know its all old footage, but it suited the documentary. I liked how they'd picked apart audio from the session tapes at points too, and their old engineers demonstrating the tape loop was a nice touch. I felt like the editing was rather incredible, the whole film just kept pace, though the build up around the whole "disco sucks" episode was a bit much.
Correct me if I'm mistaken, but there was NO mention of 'You Win Again'?! Their huge late-80s comeback single, which kick-started the third phase of their career. I felt like this was a massive oversight. They also spent a long time on Celine Dion and 'Immortality'. I've never liked her voice, but the Bee Gees cut their own version of it, which to me was vastly superior. It was put out on their '1s' compilation maybe 20 years ago or so. I was surprised that they didn't delve a little further into the Barbara Streisand connection too.
I get the scant details of the 1969-74 era, though I honestly don't think there was much to say. I'm amazed that they had the footage of a solo Robin facing a tough crowd in New Zealand from that era, and I think enough was said that explained why it was a bad time for the group. I felt like the early Polydor years became a little glossed over, particularly 'Odessa', which by many fans is considered one of their best albums. Though its nice that the film and the soundtrack use the single mono mix of 'I've Got To Get A Message To You', which is such a great and now rare version compared to the album stereo mix, which gets used everywhere. I was listening to the soundtrack on Spotify this week and I'm amazed at how sonically impressive a lot of that early stuff is. I wondered if it had been remixed for the film, but it appears not. I regret that I never got hold of their early CDs, other than 'Bee Gees 1st', because they were some excellent remasters, with great sleeve notes and usually a whole disc of bonus tracks and rarities. They're crazy money now! My only way of getting my Bee Gees fix for that era are the original LPs.
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Post by baz on Jan 10, 2021 22:54:42 GMT
Correct me if I'm mistaken, but there was NO mention of 'You Win Again'?! Their huge late-80s comeback single, which kick-started the third phase of their career. I felt like this was a massive oversight. I felt like the early Polydor years became a little glossed over, particularly 'Odessa', which by many fans is considered one of their best albums. Yep, the absence of "You Win Again" ranked badly with me - a major turning point in their career as well as being a phenomenal song - it's akin to not featuring "Massachusetts" or "Jive Talkin'". Problem is, I think it's because that song wasn't a big hit in America, reaching just number 75. About ten years ago on an American music forum I remember a very excited thread about that song as one member "found" it on YouTube, shared it and I remember many saying things like " Wow - never heard that before!" and agreeing it was excellent. The fact it was a huge hit around the world unfortunately didn't warrant that song a place in the film and that's where the film went off the rails, that death of disco nonsense, a little on songs for other artistes and suddenly end of the film with captions about the deaths of Andy, Maurice and Robin. The music they made in their last 20 years barely featured at all so one is left thinking they died with disco, wrote some songs for others and that was it. As for "Odessa"... I too think that's an excellent album. Unfortunately it's a big part of why Robin split from the band and it still seems to be a painful era for Barry to revisit. After Maurice died, Barry and Robin did consider reviving the album for a live event with Barry saying it had been "noted" how much some loved that album but it sadly wasn't to be. So to the Gibb's, "Odessa" was the soundtrack of them falling apart and no amount of belated acclaim would ever change their feelings on the album hence why it got short shrift in the film. The relationship between Barry and Robin wasn't the most harmonious and that was touched upon in the film but I think haunts Barry to this day. I remember at Robin's funeral, Barry delivered a eulogy in which he said something like "if you have any negativity, get rid of it" which alluded to how he and Robin didn't see eye to eye very much. They were both hot headed guys and that was where Maurice was crucial - the man in the middle who helped smooth things out and enabled them to work together. It makes the Bee Gees story and their triumphs all the more remarkable. I'm not gonna deny, I hated them as a kid - partly because of the whole disco thing. It took a while to warm to their early works as Barry and Robin's voices jarred with me yet I found the older I got, the more I grew to love and admire them. Now, I enjoy most of their work and love them for the unique phenomenon they were.
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Post by cameron on Jan 10, 2021 23:49:04 GMT
I had no idea that 'You Win Again' wasn't a big hit in America. I guess the Bee Gees' name was still mud at that point? It's weird, America has always been like that. Europe seems much more tolerant to giving an ear to an established artist who's trying to make a comeback. Much like how the 1967-73 era for the Beach Boys was a big hit in the UK and much of Europe, whereas DJs in America were refusing to play their records because they weren't "cool" anymore by 1970.
For me, 'Odessa' is a bit much, it needs reigning in a bit. There's a few stand outs, but it's not concise enough. It's weird how that's the album that the Bee Gees cite as their dark album, for me, it's always been 'Horizontal'. That's one of the darkest pop records ever. With the odd exception of 'Massachusetts' and 'Harry Braff', the album is incredibly dark. Even some of the lighter tunes like 'Birdie Told Me' deal with getting over a breakup and side one finishes with the hauntingly beautiful 'With The Sun In My Eyes'. As an aside, I read an interview with producer/music historian Andrew Sandoval last year, and he co-produced the Bee Gees' reissues on Rhino. He elaborated that the Bee Gees' involvement was absolutely minimal. Even when it came to signing off outtakes, I'm pretty sure he said he never got an audience with any of them, he'd have to send the recordings off for evaluation, and they'd be in touch via their assistant or whatever. This meant that interviewing them for the detailed liner notes was out of the question. He eventually got to meet Barry Gibb somewhere, and Barry knew who he was and thanked him for sorting out their back catalogue for the early years. He then specifically told Andrew that 'Odessa' was recorded during the worst time in their lives at that point, and he still doesn't like to talk about the album today and he apologised that he couldn't have been of more help.
From what I heard, it wasn't just the internal struggles in the group, but Robin was involved in a serious car accident that year, and apparently he was never mentally quite the same after that, becoming increasingly withdrawn. I always felt that Robin was always destined to be the frontman, but it was actually Barry. I think that's where the struggles come from. If you look at the very early footage of them as kids singing on TV, Robin is always the larger than life character at the front. Of course, Robin sang their first number one 'Massachusetts', and he was generally placed at the front of the group from 1967-68, though Barry seemed to be nudging forward after that, before totally taking over for the "Disco Era".
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Post by Mevrouw Bee on Jan 11, 2021 3:35:34 GMT
Though its nice that the film and the soundtrack use the single mono mix of 'I've Got To Get A Message To You', which is such a great and now rare version compared to the album stereo mix, which gets used everywhere. I have the original 45 (with "Kitty Can" as the b-side which is a lovely little ditty)...and I could never understand why I never heard it anywhere but on my 45! I have the same issue with "Magic Carpet Ride" by Steppenwolf; I find the 45 that I own the definitive version but it seems that with the dominance of albums by the end of the 60s, the 33 rpm versions are considered definitive now.
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Post by cameron on Jan 11, 2021 13:39:47 GMT
The single mix of 'I've Got To Get A Message To You' was completely driven by the bass, whereas the album mixes put the orchestra up front, which is virtually inaudible on the single mix. The single mix really hits the spot I feel, giving the song the gritty pleading power that suits the lyrics, but the album mix tries to turn it into a ballad. There's actually three different album mixes of it - one mono mix and two stereo mixes, in addition to the single mix. One "withdrawn" stereo mix has some session chat over the final few seconds of the song, and it was quickly swapped for the cleaner mix. The two mixes have different endings, one lets the orchestra lead the key change with no vocal, and the other features Robin's improvised high vocal part over the top of the orchestra. 'I've Got To Get A Message To You' wasn't on the British version of 'Idea', but was on the US version and a few European pressings.
The whole 'Idea' album is a bit of a mess with it mixes. Apparently the album was mixed on a new recording console with a faulty power supply, which caused the tape to run at different speeds every time that it was played. Consequently, just about every track on the album sounds quite different in stereo vs mono. I think they were so occupied trying to get the speed to be the same, that they also dropped the ball on the mix itself, with many differences between the stereo and mono mix. I heard a rumour that 'I've Got To Get A Message To You' was recorded on two tape machines running simultaneously to give them more tracks to play with, but it was impossible to sync them up again due to the fault with the tape machine, so bits had to be re-recorded for the album version, but I've not seen an official confirmation of this. It may explain why the single mix appears in fake stereo on quite a lot of European compilations from around that time. Just a load of pointless anorak information for you there! Ha!
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Post by moorlock2003 on Jul 13, 2023 4:06:41 GMT
many links are already well known on this forum - but it's of course an interesting thread idea too, especially for anyone 'new' to The Hollies story, so while many below are well known a few are lesser known as well... Paul Bliss also played keyboards for The Moody Blues and produced some tracks on their album 'Keys of The Kingdom' from the sixties; Allan, Graham and Tony contributed percussion to a few of The Rolling Stones early tracks; either 'Can I Get A Witness' or 'Now I've Got A Witness'(depending on which source you go by) and possibly 'Not Fade Away' too - but Tony and Graham are, among others, 'thanked' by Andrew Loog Oldham on the cover of The Stones 1975 Decca compilation 'Metamorphosis' Graham Nash co-wrote John Walker's 1967 hit 'Annabella' with Kirk Duncan and Nicky James - plus a few tracks on John's solo album 'If You Go Away' too and of course Nash sang guest lead on a verse of The Scaffold's no.1 hit 'Lily The Pink' and was on Mike McCartney ('McGear') solo album Alan Hawkshaw (of The Checkmates and briefly The Shadows over 1969/70) plays piano on 'Put Yourself in My Place' (1965) getting a solo - while later M W & F/ Shadow Aussie John Farrar's band The Strangers also recorded this Hollies track later Shads bassist Alan Jones plays on 'Driver' and he & Shads keyboardist Cliff Hall played on 'I Don't Understand You' - both in 1981 future Led Zeppelin bassist John Paul Jones plays bass on 'Don't Run And Hide' and future Cream bassist Jack Bruce plays bass on 'After The Fox' with Burt Bacharach on keyboards & of course Peter Sellers guest vocal - both in 1966 Klaus Voormann played bass on BBC Radio sessions and an edition of 'Sunday Night at The London Palladium' TV show before then opting to join Manfred Mann ! Hollies assist Everlys & Jimmy Page on 'Two Yanks in England' album in 1966 Gary Walker of The Walker Brothers co-wrote the linear notes and provided some percussion on 'For Certain Because...' (most probably on 'Crusader') John' Mitch' Mitchell of Jimi Hendrix Experience plays drums (as Bobby was ill) on 'Kill Me Quick', 'We're Alive' and initial take of 'The Games We Play' (all 1967) Clem Cattini (ex-Pirates & Tornados) & Dougie Wright (ex-John Barry Seven) play other drums on most of 'Evolution' Sounds Incorporated & Jeff Beck Group drummer Tony Newman deputised on drums on some TV shows while Dakotas drummer Tony Mansfield (brother of singer Elkie Brooks) deputised for concert shows during Bobby's period of recuperation Nicky Hopkins of Jeff Beck Group plays keyboards on 'Listen To Me' (1968) Alan Parker of Blue Mink / C.C.S. plays guitar with Tony on 'I Shall Be Released' Ronnie Scott and Ronnie Ross play brass on 'Blowin' In The Wind' (1968) The Seventies; Elton John of course on piano and organ on 'He Ain't Heavy' / 'I Can't Tell The Bottom..'/'Perfect Lady Housewife' over 1969-70 Roger Coulam of Blue Mink plays piano on 'Hey Willy' (1971) Gary Brooker (Procol Harum) plays keyboards on some tracks on 'Distant Light' and much later of course on his song 'Harlequin' (also doing a lead vocal on the unissued version in 1979) Jim Jewell of McGuinness Flint touring group and Gallagher & Lyle plays sax on 'Look What We've Got' (1971) and later on 'It's A Shame It's A Game' / 'Transatlantic Westbound Jet' (Clarke version) and later on 'Writing on The Wall' and a few other tracks circa 1978 Peter Robinson (of 'Quatermass') plays organ on 'Won't You (we) Feel Good That Morning' and 'Slow Down' (1972) The group 'The Greatest Show in The Galaxy' (featuring Colin Jennings who wrote Hollies songs with Tony) wrote and recorded the original version of 'Magic Woman Touch' Larry Henley (lead singer of The Newbeats) co-wrote 'Lizzy And The Rainman' Duffy Power plays harmonica on 'Down On The Run' (1974) Rod Argent (Zombies/Argent) plays synth on 'Star' (1976) Tony Hymas of Jack Bruce Band plays keyboards on 'I'm Down'(1975) and later on '5317704' album in 1979 The Eighties; John Miles takes guest falsetto vocal on his song 'Carrie'(1981) while his group's keyboardist/vocalist Brian Chatton guests on both versions of his song 'Take My Love And Run' (1981-83) Labi Siffre takes guest high harmony vocal on unissued third version of 'I Don't Understand You' in 1981 Mike Batt plays keyboards on both versions of his song 'If The Lights Go Out' (1980-83)- also recorded by Kate Melua Alan Tarney plays rhythm guitar on his song 'Somethin' Ain't Right' (1983) also recorded by Elaine Page Joe Lala (of Manassas) plays percussion on 'What Goes Around..' album (1983) Bernie Calvert played on The Bread and Beer Band single of 'The Dick Barton Theme' (with Elton John & co) circa 1969 Graham Nash produced Judee Sills' own version of her song 'Jesus Was A Crossmaker' and sang harmonies on Art Garfunkel's version of 'Break Away' plus Steve Stills 'Love The One Your With' Tony Hicks produced the 1974 album Taggart (not sure spelt right) Allan Clarke sang 'Breakdown' (1977) and Terry Sylvester sang 'To One In Paradise'(1975) for The Alan Parsons Project - while Parsons engineered Hollies tracks and produced 'Boulder To Birmingham' (1976) Dean Ford (of Marmalade fame) co-wrote 'Pick Up The Pieces' (not always credited) and 'Mr. Heartbeaker' with Terry Sylvester and included his version of the latter on his self titled EMI solo album in 1975 Terry Sylvester guests on a track on a recent Yusuf / 'Cat Stevens' album while Mike Rickfors guests on a track on Paul Jones solo album 'Starting All Over Again' Rob Davis (ex-Mud) plays guitar on a few tracks on 'Staying Power' (2006) - 'Suspended Animation' was one I think without looking it up more anon - and from others on here of course ! The band Tony Hicks produced was Taggett. Their album was released in the US on the United Artists label, EMI in the UK, with completely different cover Art.
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Post by sandy on Jul 13, 2023 8:55:58 GMT
Hans Peter Arnesen was a member or Taggett, and he later played live and recorded with Hollies too.
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Post by gee on Jul 13, 2023 22:09:52 GMT
Interesting points re The Bee Gees
- they had two major eras - they were really big in the sixties over 1967-69 which often now gets eclipsed by the disco era (which for them was quite brief really with just a few songs plus the 'Saturday Night Fever' soundtrack album - massive of course but the albums; 'Main Course', 'Children of The World' and 'Spirits' all have decidedly non disco tracks on them as well)
Robin surviving the Hither Green rail disaster - where around 90 people were killed - must have affected him badly, I always thought some of his lead vocal songs which were very introvert might have reflected his state of mind following his close brush with death...
sadly Maurice - who seemed to be a really great friendly guy per the Radio One 'Bee Gees Story' years ago - had a bad drink problem which he later did well to keep under control and he openly admitted he had some insecurities which led him to badly 'overdo' everything...which ties in with Terry Sylvester's account
Unquestionably Maurice ('Mo') was the glue that held them together (as Nash/Sylvester in turn both did for Allan and Tony in The Hollies) while vocally, just like Tony in The Hollies, it was Maurice whose 'least standout' (but still excellent and key) harmony voice blended Barry and Robin's really distinctive lead voices into 'The Bee Gees' vocal sound - note on 'How Deep is Your Love' Maurice gets a brief solo lead vocal part before the two brothers come in (something like Tony did back on 'Look Through Any Window')
Maurice did have a fine singing voice - tracks such as 'You Know it's For You', 'Wildflower' and 'Overnight' where he took quite rare leads were excellent...again like Tony Hicks for The Hollies
back on 'Kitty Can' and of course the 'Cucumber Castle' album (minus Robin) Barry & Maurice featured well in duet but of course Robin was essential for the full sound
tho' 1971-74 is considered a 'wilderness' era - which they even acknowledged calling their 1972 album; 'To Whom it May Concern' complete with a song titled; 'We Lost The Road' - they nevertheless still managed a run of reasonable UK hits with; 'Lonely Days', 'Run To Me', 'My World' plus did 'How Can You Mend A Broken Heart' - probably 1973 with 'Life in A Tin Can' album where Barry half went 'country' was their most directionless period (tho' 'My Life Has Been A Song' and 'Saw A New Morning' were both great tracks)
my three fav albums of the sixties were 'Bee Gees First', 'Horizontal' and 'Idea' where they really were on top of their game penning both superior moving ballads ('To Love Somebody','Let There Be Love, 'And The Sun Will Shine', 'Swan Song' etc) and surreal imagery numbers ('Holiday', 'Every Christian Lion Hearted Man Will Show You','I Started A Joke', 'World' etc) that were light years apart in content...yet somehow nevertheless sat quite comfortably alongside each other
'2 Years On', 'Trafalgar', 'To Whom...' were all albums of fine songs during that so called 'wilderness' period worth re-visiting as was 'Mr Natural' in 1974 which saw producer Arif Marden transforming them gradually in style but still keeping them recognisable
'Main Course' in 1975 featured 'Jive Talkin' and 'Nights on Broadway'...but also the country tinged 'Come on Over' and the reflective 'Songbird' and 'Edge of The Universe' as plenty of Bee Gees musical styles were explored
'Children of The Word' at first appears a disco-ish set with 'You Should Be Dancing', 'You Stepped into My Life', 'Boogie Child' and 'Subway'...however 'Love Me' sung by Robin, 'The Way it Was' sung by Barry, the title track and 'Lovers' (which featured their various lead voices styles in turn) balanced out the album which also had plenty of non falsetto sung tracks too including 'Can't Keep A Good Man Down'
Later the album 'Living Eyes' often gets dismissed as it followed 'Spirits' (where I feel Barry went far too 'OTT' re his falsetto singing...sometimes sounding too much like 'minnie mouse' !) and saw them largely drop Barry's falsetto sound, but I felt it was underrated with some fine songs and harmonies, with Robin returning as a second more featured lead vocalist plus Maurice sole lead too making a more varied approach overall - it even had a classical intro to 'Be Who You Are' that had echoes of 'Odessa' style
I think with 'Odessa' like The Beatles 'White Album' they over reached a bit not really quite having two albums worth of very top quality songs to completely fill up a double set, hence a bit of instrumental padding, but plenty of strong material all the same - I have an original 'red felt' copy somewhere
like The Hollies they did a few probably now largely forgotten later singles such as; 'The Woman in You', 'Someone Belonging To Someone' etc that saw them return to a more instantly recognisable Bee Gees lower key harmony sound
'E.S.P.'was a decent album as was 'One' while I have not really got into 'High Civilization' the third Warners album - later 'Size Isn't Everything', 'Still Waters' and the final 'This is Where I Came in' were good albums
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Post by moorlock2003 on Jul 14, 2023 15:15:37 GMT
Interesting points re The Bee Gees - they had two major eras - they were really big in the sixties over 1967-69 which often now gets eclipsed by the disco era (which for them was quite brief really with just a few songs plus the 'Saturday Night Fever' soundtrack album - massive of course but the albums; 'Main Course', 'Children of The World' and 'Spirits' all have decidedly non disco tracks on them as well) Robin surviving the Hither Green rail disaster - where around 90 people were killed - must have affected him badly, I always thought some of his lead vocal songs which were very introvert might have reflected his state of mind following his close brush with death... sadly Maurice - who seemed to be a really great friendly guy per the Radio One 'Bee Gees Story' years ago - had a bad drink problem which he later did well to keep under control and he openly admitted he had some insecurities which led him to badly 'overdo' everything...which ties in with Terry Sylvester's account Unquestionably Maurice ('Mo') was the glue that held them together (as Nash/Sylvester in turn both did for Allan and Tony in The Hollies) while vocally, just like Tony in The Hollies, it was Maurice whose 'least standout' (but still excellent and key) harmony voice blended Barry and Robin's really distinctive lead voices into 'The Bee Gees' vocal sound - note on 'How Deep is Your Love' Maurice gets a brief solo lead vocal part before the two brothers come in (something like Tony did back on 'Look Through Any Window') Maurice did have a fine singing voice - tracks such as 'You Know it's For You', 'Wildflower' and 'Overnight' where he took quite rare leads were excellent...again like Tony Hicks for The Hollies back on 'Kitty Can' and of course the 'Cucumber Castle' album (minus Robin) Barry & Maurice featured well in duet but of course Robin was essential for the full sound tho' 1971-74 is considered a 'wilderness' era - which they even acknowledged calling their 1972 album; 'To Whom it May Concern' complete with a song titled; 'We Lost The Road' - they nevertheless still managed a run of reasonable UK hits with; 'Lonely Days', 'Run To Me', 'My World' plus did 'How Can You Mend A Broken Heart' - probably 1973 with 'Life in A Tin Can' album where Barry half went 'country' was their most directionless period (tho' 'My Life Has Been A Song' and 'Saw A New Morning' were both great tracks) my three fav albums of the sixties were 'Bee Gees First', 'Horizontal' and 'Idea' where they really were on top of their game penning both superior moving ballads ('To Love Somebody','Let There Be Love, 'And The Sun Will Shine', 'Swan Song' etc) and surreal imagery numbers ('Holiday', 'Every Christian Lion Hearted Man Will Show You','I Started A Joke', 'World' etc) that were light years apart in content...yet somehow nevertheless sat quite comfortably alongside each other '2 Years On', 'Trafalgar', 'To Whom...' were all albums of fine songs during that so called 'wilderness' period worth re-visiting as was 'Mr Natural' in 1974 which saw producer Arif Marden transforming them gradually in style but still keeping them recognisable 'Main Course' in 1975 featured 'Jive Talkin' and 'Nights on Broadway'...but also the country tinged 'Come on Over' and the reflective 'Songbird' and 'Edge of The Universe' as plenty of Bee Gees musical styles were explored 'Children of The Word' at first appears a disco-ish set with 'You Should Be Dancing', 'You Stepped into My Life', 'Boogie Child' and 'Subway'...however 'Love Me' sung by Robin, 'The Way it Was' sung by Barry, the title track and 'Lovers' (which featured their various lead voices styles in turn) balanced out the album which also had plenty of non falsetto sung tracks too including 'Can't Keep A Good Man Down' Later the album 'Living Eyes' often gets dismissed as it followed 'Spirits' (where I feel Barry went far too 'OTT' re his falsetto singing...sometimes sounding too much like 'minnie mouse' !) and saw them largely drop Barry's falsetto sound, but I felt it was underrated with some fine songs and harmonies, with Robin returning as a second more featured lead vocalist plus Maurice sole lead too making a more varied approach overall - it even had a classical intro to 'Be Who You Are' that had echoes of 'Odessa' style I think with 'Odessa' like The Beatles 'White Album' they over reached a bit not really quite having two albums worth of very top quality songs to completely fill up a double set, hence a bit of instrumental padding, but plenty of strong material all the same - I have an original 'red felt' copy somewhere like The Hollies they did a few probably now largely forgotten later singles such as; 'The Woman in You', 'Someone Belonging To Someone' etc that saw them return to a more instantly recognisable Bee Gees lower key harmony sound 'E.S.P.'was a decent album as was 'One' while I have not really got into 'High Civilization' the third Warners album - later 'Size Isn't Everything', 'Still Waters' and the final 'This is Where I Came in' were good albums Bee Gees had their ups and downs. Why they went country with the horrible “Don’t Forget to Remember” and others is a mystery. Yeah yeah I know it was a big hit in the UK but that doesn’t stop it from being one of their worst singles ever. It rightfully flopped in the US. Singles like “My World” and “Run to me” are trite and repetitive. The Bee Gees had a long career but really their peak was with their first 3 albums. Odessa has a few good tracks but 2 albums was just too much.
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Post by moorlock2003 on Jul 14, 2023 15:21:15 GMT
Interesting points re The Bee Gees - they had two major eras - they were really big in the sixties over 1967-69 which often now gets eclipsed by the disco era (which for them was quite brief really with just a few songs plus the 'Saturday Night Fever' soundtrack album - massive of course but the albums; 'Main Course', 'Children of The World' and 'Spirits' all have decidedly non disco tracks on them as well) Robin surviving the Hither Green rail disaster - where around 90 people were killed - must have affected him badly, I always thought some of his lead vocal songs which were very introvert might have reflected his state of mind following his close brush with death... sadly Maurice - who seemed to be a really great friendly guy per the Radio One 'Bee Gees Story' years ago - had a bad drink problem which he later did well to keep under control and he openly admitted he had some insecurities which led him to badly 'overdo' everything...which ties in with Terry Sylvester's account Unquestionably Maurice ('Mo') was the glue that held them together (as Nash/Sylvester in turn both did for Allan and Tony in The Hollies) while vocally, just like Tony in The Hollies, it was Maurice whose 'least standout' (but still excellent and key) harmony voice blended Barry and Robin's really distinctive lead voices into 'The Bee Gees' vocal sound - note on 'How Deep is Your Love' Maurice gets a brief solo lead vocal part before the two brothers come in (something like Tony did back on 'Look Through Any Window') Maurice did have a fine singing voice - tracks such as 'You Know it's For You', 'Wildflower' and 'Overnight' where he took quite rare leads were excellent...again like Tony Hicks for The Hollies back on 'Kitty Can' and of course the 'Cucumber Castle' album (minus Robin) Barry & Maurice featured well in duet but of course Robin was essential for the full sound tho' 1971-74 is considered a 'wilderness' era - which they even acknowledged calling their 1972 album; 'To Whom it May Concern' complete with a song titled; 'We Lost The Road' - they nevertheless still managed a run of reasonable UK hits with; 'Lonely Days', 'Run To Me', 'My World' plus did 'How Can You Mend A Broken Heart' - probably 1973 with 'Life in A Tin Can' album where Barry half went 'country' was their most directionless period (tho' 'My Life Has Been A Song' and 'Saw A New Morning' were both great tracks) my three fav albums of the sixties were 'Bee Gees First', 'Horizontal' and 'Idea' where they really were on top of their game penning both superior moving ballads ('To Love Somebody','Let There Be Love, 'And The Sun Will Shine', 'Swan Song' etc) and surreal imagery numbers ('Holiday', 'Every Christian Lion Hearted Man Will Show You','I Started A Joke', 'World' etc) that were light years apart in content...yet somehow nevertheless sat quite comfortably alongside each other '2 Years On', 'Trafalgar', 'To Whom...' were all albums of fine songs during that so called 'wilderness' period worth re-visiting as was 'Mr Natural' in 1974 which saw producer Arif Marden transforming them gradually in style but still keeping them recognisable 'Main Course' in 1975 featured 'Jive Talkin' and 'Nights on Broadway'...but also the country tinged 'Come on Over' and the reflective 'Songbird' and 'Edge of The Universe' as plenty of Bee Gees musical styles were explored 'Children of The Word' at first appears a disco-ish set with 'You Should Be Dancing', 'You Stepped into My Life', 'Boogie Child' and 'Subway'...however 'Love Me' sung by Robin, 'The Way it Was' sung by Barry, the title track and 'Lovers' (which featured their various lead voices styles in turn) balanced out the album which also had plenty of non falsetto sung tracks too including 'Can't Keep A Good Man Down' Later the album 'Living Eyes' often gets dismissed as it followed 'Spirits' (where I feel Barry went far too 'OTT' re his falsetto singing...sometimes sounding too much like 'minnie mouse' !) and saw them largely drop Barry's falsetto sound, but I felt it was underrated with some fine songs and harmonies, with Robin returning as a second more featured lead vocalist plus Maurice sole lead too making a more varied approach overall - it even had a classical intro to 'Be Who You Are' that had echoes of 'Odessa' style I think with 'Odessa' like The Beatles 'White Album' they over reached a bit not really quite having two albums worth of very top quality songs to completely fill up a double set, hence a bit of instrumental padding, but plenty of strong material all the same - I have an original 'red felt' copy somewhere like The Hollies they did a few probably now largely forgotten later singles such as; 'The Woman in You', 'Someone Belonging To Someone' etc that saw them return to a more instantly recognisable Bee Gees lower key harmony sound 'E.S.P.'was a decent album as was 'One' while I have not really got into 'High Civilization' the third Warners album - later 'Size Isn't Everything', 'Still Waters' and the final 'This is Where I Came in' were good albums Bee Gees had their ups and downs. Why they went country with the horrible “Don’t Forget to Remember” and others is a mystery. Yeah yeah I know it was a big hit in the UK but that doesn’t stop it from being one of their worst singles ever. It rightfully flopped in the US. Singles like “My World” and “Run to me” are trite and repetitive. The Bee Gees had a long career but really their peak was with their first 3 albums. Odessa has a few good tracks but 2 albums was one too many. The record company obviously thought so too, as they re-released the album as a single disc.
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Post by moorlock2003 on Jul 14, 2023 16:10:08 GMT
I never went from loving a band to loathing one as fast as I did with the Bee Gees. They basically encapsulated everything I hated about being born in 1961 instead of 10 years earlier. I felt so culturally ripped off as a teenager. I was born about 10 years before you, and loved the Bee Gees' '60's and early '70's music. Saw them live in Toronto in '72 and '73, when they began their slow descent towards oblivion, and then again in '75, when they were down to playing university campuses. They were desperately trying to separate themselves from their old hit ballads, actually mocking them as they performed them. Seemingly embarrassed by them. Then they finally put their heart and soul into it, when they announced and played their new single 'Jive Talking'. It sounded awful to me, a complete sellout! They played it twice during their show. A month later it was the biggest thing going! After that, with that long line of vomit-inducing disco smashes, they were either loved or loathed by music fans. There was no middle ground. And by the late '70's, in my experience the pop world had devided into 3 separate worlds: AM pop, FM punk, and the Disco World. I must say I belonged to none of them. Perhaps I was 'growing up'. Or then again, perhaps just 'growing old'. Whatever the case, my days of listening intensely to the music scene were over for good. After that, I concentrated on collecting music from 'my youth': those songs and records from my early years, when I was too young and too poor to buy those discs I really loved (generally that sweet spot from '60-'68). Of course, my love (perhaps addiction would be a better term) for The Hollies never flagged. If it had, I wouldn't be found here, typing away. Here in the US The Bee Gees were blanketing the airwaves in the late 70s with their music as well as other artists covering their songs. I think they were largely responsible for the “Disco sucks” campaign. “Too Much Heaven”? Too much Bee Gees was more accurate. I happen to love Disco but some songs are so tired now. The mainstream got ahold of Disco and ruined it. It started as underground club music. Disco is so much more than The Bee Gees, Donna Summer, and The Village People.
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Post by moorlock2003 on Jul 14, 2023 16:30:20 GMT
Other great versions / covers from Hollies songs: Another Night - Wilson Brothers - US Band - fantastic version made No. 50 in the US Charts. A Little Thing Like Love - RIVER - great cover - better then the Hollies original. more great covers soon. I searched for River “A Little Thing like Love” on YouTube but it’s not there. It’s really that good?
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Post by Stranger on Jul 14, 2023 21:12:16 GMT
Other great versions / covers from Hollies songs: Another Night - Wilson Brothers - US Band - fantastic version made No. 50 in the US Charts. A Little Thing Like Love - RIVER - great cover - better then the Hollies original. more great covers soon. I searched for River “A Little Thing like Love” on YouTube but it’s not there. It’s really that good? Hmm I think it's OK but judge for yourself:
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Post by moorlock2003 on Jul 15, 2023 0:24:31 GMT
I searched for River “A Little Thing like Love” on YouTube but it’s not there. It’s really that good? Hmm I think it's OK but judge for yourself: Interesting, but better than The Hollies’ original? Nah. If Epic Records had released a third single from “Distant Light” I think “Little Thing Like Love” would have been it.
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