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Post by anthony on Sept 4, 2023 22:59:15 GMT
Hi Moorlock, I have been playing the music from that era a lot lately in the car, not many songs I don’t like, Won’t you feel good that morning is a real favourite of mine, the group had a bigger sound, I think Terry had more of a chance to show his talents. Wish they had more video clips of the band from then. Hey the Rockford line up did tour Oz as you know,
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Post by gee on Sept 4, 2023 23:28:09 GMT
Well I do know a bit about 'Romany' as I reviewed it in 'Carousel' fanzine years ago and I wrote the CD booklet notes for the expanded with bonus tracks including two then unissued songs for the EMI UK re-issue in 2007...
being abusive re The Raspberries seems to indicate Moorlock that you are easily upset when your view is challenged - but the fact is the Americans in general clearly wern't as impressed with The Hollies on that tour as you were !
Question: Did The Hollies break through as an established major USA success capitalising on 'Long Cool Woman' as a result of that early seventies USA tour minus Allan Clarke...?
if not then who is responsible - British fans or American fans ?
as for sweeping the 1972-73 period under the carpet - who did that then ??
Arguably you really do not have a clue about how The Rickfors Hollies were seen here in the UK where 'The Baby' WAS a top thirty chart hit and 'Romany' WAS purchased by me upon release I can assure you
I am well aware of The Hollies USA success and how much MORE they could and should have had
what you can't argue with is what Terry Sylvester put his finger on;
'The Americans wanted Allan...but we just didn't sound like that anymore'
and that is no fault of any Britisher is it...??
there is no 'England v America' issue here, you are assuming that
the fact is that it was your OWN countrymen and women stateside who clearly failed to 'get' The Rickfors Hollies when they toured didn't they ?
The Hollies then never bothered to do a UK tour with Mike which was telling as it appears (per Bobby's book) that they felt the overseas shows had not been what they had hoped and instead got back to speaking with Allan
..oh and for the record I also have that 1973 concert and the 'Midnight Special' TV show tracks,and I was pushing for a CD release of 'Out On The Road' with related bonus tracks when I met up with Bobby Elliott in October 2007 (and I have from time to time suggested it to him in email exchanges since over the years)
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Post by JamesT on Sept 5, 2023 6:07:25 GMT
This may be a controversial comment, but throwing it out there anyway. Were the Rickfors years simply too much hard work and stress for Tony and Bobby in particular? Established group loses key member, bedding in a reluctant, young and relatively inexperienced foreign singer, having to re-establish themselves with a new sound and expectations of more mature material, all the instrumental changes in concert to fill out the sound... 'Did you all come in the same taxi?' was Hicks' quip to the audience in a bootleg recording - was there a feeling of 'starting over' again?
How did Terry and Bernie feel during this time? We've heard Terry's comment re: Allan. Certainly their talents were utilised most during the Rickfors years, did they relish the challenge? Remember that both seemed to be regarded simply as employees from what we've heard over the years.
An undeniably musically rich time for the band, but not the best in business terms it seems.
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Post by Mevrouw Bee on Sept 5, 2023 8:40:08 GMT
I remember years ago in our local library picking up a copy of Robert Christgau's Consumer Guide 70s and flipping through to the Hollies section. Although of course he's the typical rock snob critic of the time, this review stood out: To be fair, he was pretty narky about all the albums except that dreaded US compilation (it stops with Hollies '74) with Hollies '74 in second place. That he liked He Ain't Heavy, He's My Brother (aka Hollies Sing Hollies) more than Moving Finger (Aka Confessions of the Mind) or Distant Light pretty much proves his taste is a$$ but it does show the prevailing opinion of the day. www.robertchristgau.com/get_chap.php?k=H&bk=70That being said, the boys did a hair better than Graham Nash, so there's that.
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Post by baz on Sept 5, 2023 9:32:04 GMT
This may be a controversial comment, but throwing it out there anyway. Were the Rickfors years simply too much hard work and stress for Tony and Bobby in particular? Established group loses key member, bedding in a reluctant, young and relatively inexperienced foreign singer, having to re-establish themselves with a new sound and expectations of more mature material, all the instrumental changes in concert to fill out the sound... 'Did you all come in the same taxi?' was Hicks' quip to the audience in a bootleg recording - was there a feeling of 'starting over' again? How did Terry and Bernie feel during this time? We've heard Terry's comment re: Allan. Certainly their talents were utilised most during the Rickfors years, did they relish the challenge? Remember that both seemed to be regarded simply as employees from what we've heard over the years. An undeniably musically rich time for the band, but not the best in business terms it seems. Some interesting points posed here. My own feeling is yes, they were starting afresh and initially had the commitment to go all the way... "The Baby" charting at home was a small victory to nudge them along but the unexpected belated success of LCW in the States scuppered it as they focused on that and turned their back on Britain - huge mistake as they had a following and name in Britain whereas America it had been mixed fortunes and to crack it would demand a huge commitment and intelligent marketing. Tony and Bobby also seeing that Allan's first album had barely made any commercial impression had them thinking again and losing all heart with the new Hollies. Terry's thoughts and feelings are interesting since he's also made a fair few remarks praising Mikael and what a nice bloke and good singer he was, plus it put Terry in the spotlight singing LCW which led to the R+RHOF debacle where he felt if Allan couldn't sing the song then he should have the right to do it! So I think Terry enjoyed that era but as he would be reminded again in the future, he was a "hired hand" hence his and Bernie's thoughts and feelings didn't really count. I also think Terry taking the spotlight on that song may had rankled Tony and Bobby as well. I liken the Rickfors era to that of 1968 as it ended up being a complex saga consisting of many elements that led to Graham's departure and later, Mikael's dismissal. As for the opinions of Robert Christgau, it pains me that his reviews are mentioned and quoted in far too many Wikipedia entries implying he was a truly important critic as I have zero interest or respect for his "views". Those snippets of his thoughts quoted/capped here just shows what an odious snarky creep he was/is. There are better ways to admit you dislike an album and as I often feel where these "name" critics are concerned, where's THEIR own wonderful album of genius?
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Post by cameron on Sept 5, 2023 13:06:15 GMT
I don't like the sweeping generalisation that the "Britishers" didn't like Mikael Rickfors, because it's not true at all. I love that era for the group. In many ways its a bit of an "end of an era", as I don't think their post-Rickfors albums have the same caliber of songs across the board as they did then. That said, I think some historical context is worth remembering for all concerned...
The Hollies were on the wane in the UK in 1971/2 anyway. After 'Gasoline Alley Bred', their singles stopped reaching the top of the charts here and they did no proper tours of the UK with promotion from late 1969 all the way through to 1974, save for a few scant dates in 1970/71 at the start of their European tours, generally low key affairs at student universities. They also accepted a few residential slots at cabaret clubs, which I'll come back to later. This was all their first mistake, abandoning their original British audience. They focused during this era on Australia and Europe, where their success seemed to be. 'Too Young To Be Married' was a hit in parts of Europe and a big hit in Australia, and their Australian tours in 1970/71 were extremely well received and very financially lucrative. I will stress, the band were every bit on top form on stage during this era as they were during the Rickfors era. The surviving concert recordings from that era show a band that's energetic, tight and enormously entertaining.
'Confessions Of The Mind' was well received in 1970, alas 'Distant Light' was generally not, which was a shame as every review I read of it at the time deservedly heaped praise on it, and I still think it's one of their best albums. I think it was a case of both too many albums to compete with it in 1971 and the Hollies were really suffering with a lack of an image by 1971. The last album cover the public had seen with the Hollies on it was 'Hollies Sing Hollies' back in 1969! So I think the excellent photo on the cover of 'Greatest Hits Vol.2' in 1972 was a welcome image boost for the band, albeit at a difficult time when they'd lost Allan as a member. I think this also influenced Allan's decision to leave as the Hollies just weren't enjoying the same levels of success that they'd experienced just a couple of years before. But with very very few British concert appearances other than a cabaret residency here and there, plus fewer albums, singles and TV appearances that what Britain had enjoyed in the 1960s, the Hollies had slipped off most people's radars in the UK at that time.
The success of 'LCW' took everyone by surprise. Allan had already left and in fact, heard the news from his publisher not the Hollies themselves. He reached out to Tony to ask to regroup to do a US tour, and Tony refused, something he later said was a mistake and he massively regretted. I don't think that Tony and Allan's relationship was ever quite the same again after that. I have an audio interview with them both in 1974 where they insist that their issues are in the past, but Tony seems quite pushy to get his point across. It comes across quite tense to say the least!
When Rickfors joined, he became an instant heartthrob and for a while was subject to the typical fangirl pop magazines of the day chasing his whereabouts. This was one of the things that he was said to have hated, especially with the pressure of joining the group and English not being his native language. From here on in, the Hollies lost confidence again in themselves. 'The Baby' wasn't a big hit in the UK, but did well in Europe. 'Romany' was delayed from release THREE times in 1972, as the band tweaked the recordings and song selection. I think the reason this album stands up so well now is because it's the only Hollies album in their whole career that wasn't rattled off in a few hurried sessions, possibly aided by Ron Richards losing interest and their fear to prove themselves without Allan, they spent more time on it to perfect it and it absolutely shows. 'Out On The Road' is very much "business as usual" in comparison, though still a massively enjoyable album.
By Christmas 1972/early 1973, 'Magic Woman Touch' became one of the songs of the summer in Australia, but again, did nothing back home despite it being a stronger song than 'The Baby'. Again, the Hollies chased their success in Australia and then when 'LCW' became a hit, they flew stateside in October/November 1972. It was said that the Hollies just weren't ready to tour at this point. Their performances just weren't polished, and a lot of instrument swapping between numbers held things up. Awkward stage patter from a shy Tony and nothing from spotlight dodging Mikael only made it worse, with Terry having to step up to the forefront as a bit of a leader on stage, which he seemed the most comfortable of the five of them doing.
They returned to the US in May 1973, refreshed and better rehearsed, but I think the damage was done. Poor ticket sales led to shows being cancelled or moved to smaller venues, and the setlist had far too many slow songs together in it, leading to a big slump in the middle of the set. People walked out of shows after their support acts, and the Hollies were sort of riding their own coat tails as they weren't touring a new hit, as they'd done the year before. As pointed out above, Tony famously quipped to the audience "have you all come in the same taxi?!". Reviews of their 1973 tour seem to be generally favourable, and the audience response to them seemed to vary greatly from state to state, so it's unfair to call the tour a "disaster", but it was probably the most contentious tour of the Hollies' entire career.
When Allan came back to the fold, they had a change of direction for 1974 and embarked on their first proper full UK tour for five years. Their setlist now was about 70% hits and 30% new album tracks from 'Hollies' (1974). They also toured with a small orchestra, which really bolstered their sound. When they toured with Mikael Rickfors, their setlist was about 90% Rickfors era tracks and 10% previous hits. In fact, I think 'Bus Stop', 'Carrie Anne' (sung only by Tony) and 'He Ain't Heavy' were the only older Hollies songs included, apart from 'LCW' of course, though this was a current hit for the group at the time. By the time the Hollies toured in the US again in early 1975, they'd booked a residency at the Bottom Line Club in New York for a couple of weeks but that was about it. It went down well, but was obviously a tiny audience of maybe 250 people max, more akin to the cabaret environment that Rob Britten loved to book them in for back in the UK. In reality, I think he personally loved that environment (always with a drink in hand, flitting about like mother hen according to Bobby!), and the pay was decent, so it was an easy option. Artistically, it was career suicide, which might have contributed to the Hollies' lack of success in the UK in 1970-74. By the time 'The Air That I Breathe' was a hit, they were back in proper concert venues playing to a few thousand people per night. This would set the trajectory for the rest of their career - a solid "oldies" show played in a decent size concert hall, but still nothing near the size of the stadiums that the likes of the Rolling Stones and The Who were beginning to fill.
So all things considered, you can understand why the band themselves don't have fond memories of the Rickfors era. In many ways, they never had the same buzz about them as a live act or studio band once Allan had returned in late 1973. That explosive energy that made them so great as a live act prior to that wasn't quite the same. They were toned down, slick, smooth and meticulously rehearsed. They'd grown up a bit I guess and matured in attitudes and there was now water under the bridge that would affect interpersonal relationships with some group members going forward indefinitely. With kids to support and mortgages to pay, it would be the end of the group taking risks with new material and experimental albums. You can't blame them for that, and their output from 1964 - 1974 will always be remembered as some of the best from all the British groups of that era.
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Post by Mevrouw Bee on Sept 6, 2023 8:38:38 GMT
This may be a controversial comment, but throwing it out there anyway. Were the Rickfors years simply too much hard work and stress for Tony and Bobby in particular? Established group loses key member, bedding in a reluctant, young and relatively inexperienced foreign singer, having to re-establish themselves with a new sound and expectations of more mature material, all the instrumental changes in concert to fill out the sound... 'Did you all come in the same taxi?' was Hicks' quip to the audience in a bootleg recording - was there a feeling of 'starting over' again? How did Terry and Bernie feel during this time? We've heard Terry's comment re: Allan. Certainly their talents were utilised most during the Rickfors years, did they relish the challenge? Remember that both seemed to be regarded simply as employees from what we've heard over the years. An undeniably musically rich time for the band, but not the best in business terms it seems. Some interesting points posed here. My own feeling is yes, they were starting afresh and initially had the commitment to go all the way... "The Baby" charting at home was a small victory to nudge them along but the unexpected belated success of LCW in the States scuppered it as they focused on that and turned their back on Britain - huge mistake as they had a following and name in Britain whereas America it had been mixed fortunes and to crack it would demand a huge commitment and intelligent marketing. Tony and Bobby also seeing that Allan's first album had barely made any commercial impression had them thinking again and losing all heart with the new Hollies. Terry's thoughts and feelings are interesting since he's also made a fair few remarks praising Mikael and what a nice bloke and good singer he was, plus it put Terry in the spotlight singing LCW which led to the R+RHOF debacle where he felt if Allan couldn't sing the song then he should have the right to do it! So I think Terry enjoyed that era but as he would be reminded again in the future, he was a "hired hand" hence his and Bernie's thoughts and feelings didn't really count. I also think Terry taking the spotlight on that song may had rankled Tony and Bobby as well. I liken the Rickfors era to that of 1968 as it ended up being a complex saga consisting of many elements that led to Graham's departure and later, Mikael's dismissal. As for the opinions of Robert Christgau, it pains me that his reviews are mentioned and quoted in far too many Wikipedia entries implying he was a truly important critic as I have zero interest or respect for his "views". Those snippets of his thoughts quoted/capped here just shows what an odious snarky creep he was/is. There are better ways to admit you dislike an album and as I often feel where these "name" critics are concerned, where's THEIR own wonderful album of genius? That the influence of the acts themselves upon musicians of subsequent generations--from the Hollies to the Carpenters to the Monkees to the singer-songwriters--has outlived the sneering of the critics (even when they rate an album a B or above?) is the ultimate musician's revenge. I love it.
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