Everything you ever wanted to know about 'Butterfly'

[cameron]

I've made it no secret that 'Butterfly' is my favourite Hollies album - and my favourite album of all time. Someone indicated on another post that they'd like to see some details about the various different mixes available for this album, and no Hollies album has quite so many alternative mixes as this one! As my favourite album, it's the one I've researched the most, so here are my findings and your complete guide to 'Butterfly'! 

The story of 'Butterfly' begins in March/April of 1967. The Hollies were more successful than ever by early 1967, still riding on the back of the momentous 'For Certain Because...' and their first self composed big worldwide hit, 'Stop! Stop! Stop!' and now 'On A Carousel' was riding the charts worldwide and they were also beginning to really establish themselves in America. But their future was hanging in the balance when in mid February Bobby Elliott collapsed on stage due to an inflamed appendix. The Hollies were forced to continue their touring commitments without him (using Tony Mansfield as a stand in for the live dates) and using Mitch Mitchell, Dougie Wright and Clem Cattini to record all of the tracks for 'Evolution'. Once these commitments were out of the way, the Hollies took a hiatus in March/April of 1967 to allow Bobby to recover. It was during this period that most of 'Butterfly' was written. Despite their two previous entirely self composed albums being a three way Clarke-Hicks-Nash effort pretty much all the way through, these tracks for the 'Butterfly' album were the first to be written individually, rather than as a team. Recording sessions would technically start even before Bobby had recovered, with an early attempt at 'Step Inside' being started on 3rd March, 1967. 


The complete sessionography for 'Butterfly' and the affiliated tracks (all sessions are held at Abbey Road studios): 

03/03/1967: 'Step Inside' is attempted with Clem Cattini on drums.

03/04/1967: the initial take of 'Step Inside' is completed with Bobby Elliott attending the session. This take remains unreleased. 

01/08/1967: the basic tracks for 'Charlie And Fred' and 'Step Inside' are recorded. 

03/08/1967: 'King Midas In Reverse' is recorded in its entirety minus the orchestra. 'Everything Is Sunshine' and 'Maker' are started. 

04/08/1967: The full orchestral score for 'King Midas In Reverse' is recorded, written and directed by Johnny Scott. The Hollies don't attend as they have left England for a tour of Sweden.

05/09/1967: 'Try It', 'Wishyouawish' and 'Postcard' are all recorded. 'Everything Is Sunshine' and 'Step Inside' are completed from the earlier session. 'Would You Believe' and 'Away Away Away' are started but not finished. 

12/09/1967: 'Pegasus' and 'Ashes To Ashes' are recorded. More overdubs are added to 'Would You Believe'. 'Ashes To Ashes' remains unissued and unheard. 

26/09/1967: 'Dear Eloise' and 'Elevated Observations?' are recorded. 

05/10/1967: Orchestral overdubs arranged and conducted by Johnny Scott are added to 'Would You Believe', 'Away Away Away' and 'Charlie And Fred'. 'Butterfly' is recorded in just one take. 

06/10/1967: Sitar is added to 'Maker' by Tony Hicks.



'Butterfly' was released as PMC/PCS 7039 on 1st November, 1967. It is released on vinyl in stereo and mono, reel-to-reel (mono only) and the then rare cassette format in stereo. The stereo mix is far superior to the mono mix as it is generally executed better and the stereo LP is unbanded, so the tracks run into each other without long pauses between. The album was later released on Hansa records in Germany, repackaged as 'Dear Eloise' in South Africa and butchered up and released as 'Dear Eloise/King Midas In Reverse' in America and Canada. Australia, Japan and Spain all press their own versions of the LP with slightly altered cover art but using the same masters as the UK release. 

Track by track guide featuring notes on different mixes:

1. DEAR ELOISE
Written predominantly by Allan Clarke in "about 20 minutes" while waiting to go for a meeting at EMI's head office, this is highly regarded as one of the Hollies' finest moments. The unusual arrangement was actually thought up by Bobby Elliott and it's Bobby that you can hear counting the main section of the song in. Despite Bernie Calvert being the keyboard player of the group, Graham Nash himself actually plays the harmonium intro part. There are quite a few different mixes of this track. The UK stereo version from the 1967 LP is the best version. The 1999 remastered version has a drop out at the beginning of the main section, which renders the mix useless. The stereo version has a clean ending, whereas the mono version fades out slightly. The mono version is also a few seconds longer as the repeated intro edit comes in a little later than it does in the stereo mix. The German version of the 'Butterfly' LP features a different mix whereby the intro starts again with the harmonium at the end of the track, making this the longest mix. 

2. AWAY AWAY AWAY
Written mainly by Graham Nash, 'Away Away Away' is one of the lighter tracks from the album. The stereo and mono mixes are basically the same, but the orchestral overdubs are a little more prominent in the mix in the mono version. The French Magic Records release of 'Butterfly' clips Bobby's solo drums from the very beginning of the track. 

3. MAKER
Perhaps as psychedelic as the Hollies ever got (along with a few other tracks, of course!), 'Maker' was written solely by Graham Nash. The lavish accompaniment was dreamt up by Johnny Scott, who arranged all of the orchestral parts for the album. The sitar was added by Tony Hicks, showing that he could turn his talents to anything! He "borrowed" the sitar from George Harrison, who had left it lying around the studio after the Sgt. Pepper sessions. The original UK mono mix has a longer intro and outtro, outlasting the stereo version by nearly 30 seconds! The US 'Dear Eloise/King Midas In Reverse' bastardisation cuts the sitar intro off but leaves the longer ending from the mono version on but in stereo. 

4. PEGASUS
Tony Hicks came up with this tune. Apparently as early on as the 'Evolution' sessions, but he only had the melody. He added words merely days before the recording session, perhaps to try and go along with the summer of love psychedelic vibe of the album. It also marks his first solo vocal (for a whole song) and even harmonises himself via double-tracking (at the insistence of Graham Nash). The stereo mix is the cleaner mix, the mono version badly mixes in the horse effects at the end. 

5. WOULD YOU BELIEVE
Another solo effort from Allan Clarke - written as an ode to his wife, Jennifer. He loved the track so much that it reappeared on his solo album 'Headroom' in 1973 as 'Would You Believe (Revisited)'. The stereo and mono mixes are virtually the same, the mono mix a little "punchier" than the stereo mix. 

6. WISHYOUAWISH
One of Graham Nash's oddities and Tony Hicks' least favourite track from the album as he believed that it wasn't a strong enough track to release. The mono mix features birdsong which the stereo mix doesn't but there stereo mix features more sound effects throughout the song (such as pouring water) which the mono mix doesn't. The clean, no effects version made it to 'Dear Eloise/King Midas In Reverse'. How this remix slipped through the net, it is not clear. A bit of recording trivia for you though - the strange "closed" vocal effect was created by Graham singing the vocal track with a bin over his head and the microphone inside the bin! 

7. POSTCARD
Written solely by Graham Nash during a trip to Marrakesh, which also saw him write 'Marrakesh Express', 'Lady Of The Island', 'Southern Cross' and 'Sleep Song'. It would appear that the Hollies got the short straw here! The stereo and mono mix are virtually the same, but the 'Dear Eloise/King Midas In Reverse' LP features a sped up version of this track, as someone at Epic records must have decided that the original recording must have been played back too slowly! This version also has a clean start as the sound effects are missing throughout the track.

8. CHARLIE AND FRED
Another random, psych-esque track in a similar vein to 'Ye Olde Toffee Shoppe' - 'Charlie And Fred' was written by Graham Nash and Allan Clarke and features those gorgeous acapella harmonies at the end! The stereo mix is the best mix, the mono mix roughly mixes in the walking and whistling sound effects at the beginning and it misses out Bobbys drum rolls in the instrumental section. In the stereo mix, Allan's voice remains in the middle, but the walking and whistling effect "walks" from left to right in the stereo image. The US 'Dear Eloise/King Midas In Reverse' LP has a different stereo mix of the track which excludes this sound effect altogether. 

9. TRY IT
Amazingly, this far out trippy slice of psychedelia was actually written by Allan Clarke, who earlier in 1967 had mused that "the Hollies are about as psychedelic as a pint of beer wi' t' lads" to NME! The track is all about Astral Projection, something that Allan was heavily into at the time. The song also features some of the Hollies' most gorgeous harmonies. it is not clear, however, how the spaced out sound effects were created. The stereo mix is the superior mix, the mono mix has the sound effects coming in at different times and has a rough fade in at the beginning, putting the intro on the off-beat. A rare early version of this track slipped through the net and was issued as the B-side to "Jennifer Eccles" in Australia in early 1968. This features the same instrumental track, with a different vocal take and no sound effects. Well worth tracking down if you can find it. 

10. ELEVATED OBSERVATIONS?
Another psychedelic track, amazingly, again, written by Allan Clarke! Graham Nash helped him finish it off though. The stereo mix is very interesting, with a mono instrumental backing "wandering" left and right in the stereo image over a full stereo vocal. The mono mix is a bit less distracting! The German Hansa version of the LP features a rare "double" version of this track. As it finishes, it starts again! But the second time around, the track does not speed up at the end and there's no whirring wind effects the second time around. The stereo mix is the same otherwise. 

11. STEP INSIDE
The only true Clarke-Hicks-Nash composition on the album! 'Step Inside' is a beautiful piece of bubblegum pop, bursting with harmonies from the very beginning. An early take of this track remains unissued, but nothing has ever been said about why the earlier take was not used. The stereo and mono mixes are virtually the same, with the stereo mix being superior and sonically better sounding. 

12. BUTTERFLY
The dramatic closing track, and Graham's swan-song. Written by him and featuring his solo vocal only, 'Butterfly' was a real departure from anything that the Hollies had ever recorded. The band used to perform this track live - they took the stereo orchestral backing from the session tape, and would play back the tape and Graham would sing his solo vocal. On their American tour of 1968, the song would apparently commend applauses lasting up to five minutes! The stereo mix is cleaner than the mono mix, as the mono has a slight fade at the end, whereas the stereo mix ends cleanly. Both mixes feature different attempts at adding reverb over the last line of the song, which reproduces differently in both mixes. 


The album was released with little or no promotion from EMI. The album failed to chart in the UK, causing the Hollies to lose confidence in the direction that Graham was trying to take them. Elsewhere in the world, it faired better. It was quite a big hit in Germany, Holland and Sweden, where 'Dear Eloise' was lifted from the album and issued as a single. 

Due to the re-interest in the Hollies in 1978 after "20 Golden Greats" was released, a few Hollies studio albums were reissued. 'Butterfly' was one of them but it was given new cover art. It uses the exact same stamper matrix as the 1967/1968 pressings, the -1 on side A and -2 on side B, making this 1978 version identical to the original. If you can't afford an original copy (as this album is the most valuable Hollies album), then the 1978 pressing is a very good alternative. 

The first CD issue of the album was actually on Polydor records (Germany) in the mid-1980s. This CD features the mega rare "double" version of 'Elevated Observations?' and the longer version of 'Dear Eloise' as the original German masters were the source of this CD. The album was released on BGO records in 1988 and EMI in 1999 featuring both the stereo and mono mix for the first time. Magic Records released an expanded version of the CD with bonus tracks from 1968 in 2004 with a rare original stereo mix of 'Do The Best You Can'. Sundazed records released 'Dear Eloise/King Midas In Reverse' in 2006/7 with the original UK tracklist with the extra bonus tracks that were added to the original LP added at the end. This release is the best sounding release, properly remastered and in stereo. It also features an interview with Allan Clarke in the liner notes, although it's a general interview about the Hollies, not specifically 'Butterfly'. 

Attachments:

[cameron]

The original Parlophone reel-to-reel and Parlophone pressed cassette tape

Attachments:

[knut]

Impressive! Big thanks from Knut. I am glad I traced down the Australian EP thanks to your info on Facebook.

[dirtyfaz]

What EP are we talking about here guys?

[malco]

After reading the posts about 'Try It' I dug out my Australian 45 of 'Jennifer Eccles' and had no idea this version of 'Try It' was different.

[Stranger]

Thanks for that, Cameron. First best post of the new board!

[dirtyfaz]

A great post Cameron. It is well presented. Dear Eloise has the most variations of all the tracks. About 10 years ago I self published a book on variations in Hollies recordings. There have been a few additions since then. I am putting together a response to your post with additional information.
We have to wonder about some of the people entrusted with mastering etc these releases. Don't they check to make sure they haven't made a mistake like cutting the first note on Dear Eloise in the mono/stereo CD issue. Track seperators in the wrong place. That shows up the source for the Magic Records "Butterfly" cause they must just have used the UK CD. Some very sloppy work.

[knut]

Hi Dirtyfaz! It would be nice if you update your book! The EP cover is attached.
Best wishes from Knut

[knut]

And here's the back side.

[gee]

Fine detailed post Cameron, however a couple of small points I would query (sorry Mate !) - but if overall we can increase our joint knowledge and understanding...thats how we (ALL of us)  learn !


They were writing 'solo' under the team banner in 1966 before 'Butterfly' - Nash came up with 'Fifi The Flea' ('bloody daft song I refused to sing it...!' Clarke once told us onstage)

I believe 'Clown' was a Nash solo effort too, and 'Stop Right There' (about his failing first marriage) and quite likely 'Everything is Sunshine'

Nash was also songwriting with Kirk Duncan & Nicky James (John Walker's solo hit 'Annabella' which made no.24 in the UK charts in 1967 , and a year later several tracks on John's first solo album)
 
Allan Clarke wrote 'Lullaby To Tim' for his son and we know early in 1967 Hicks & Nash had the bulk of 'Carrie Anne' composed minus Clarke before Allan supplied the vocal bridge section, so 'Butterfly' wasn't their first album of solo songs put under the 'All Titles composed by Clarke-Hicks-Nash' credit..

Clarke largely wrote 'Water on The Brain'

Some points on Butterfly:

Dear Eloise: there is more 'depth' to the vocals during the central vocal part ('ba-ba'ba'ba...'), plus in mono at the end the song fades out totally before Nash's vocal, in stereo Nash comes in faster during mid-fade (that stereo take is on 'Hollies Greatest Vol 2' as well)- while an alternate stereo 'Dear Eloise' with full harmonium (as played on the intro) also put at the ending was on the European Polydor album; 'Pop Heroes: The Hollies' while the old B.G.O. Records CD (BGOCD79) version of the stereo mix seems to be correctly mastered with full intro unlike EMI's later stereo & mono CD which 'chopped' the very start of the harmonium intro....while French Magic records CD (Magic 3930523) managed to 'splice' some tracks intros with 'Away Away Away' totally losing it's drum intro ! 

Where did you hear it was Tony Hicks who played the sitar on 'Maker' ? (do you have any further info on that ?)

- I too had always assumed that Tony played the sitar part but I've since read Tony quoted as saying he'd never touched an Indian sitar in his life, while Bobby Elliott once told me the same Indian musicians who played on The Beatles 'Indian' songs ('Love You Too', 'Within You Without You' & 'The Inner Light') were those who played on 'Maker' which DOES sound very similar (& later on Allan Clarke's song 'Separated') the acoustic guitar receeds fast and is then minus power in stereo (going into the background behind the sitar), but it keeps more prominence in mono

On 'Wishyouawish'  which is a 'Nash-Clarke' song not a Nash solo composition, I think you'll find Allan Clarke was also 'under the hollowed out drum' with Nash....as it's Clarke-Nash who duet on that song, not just Nash singing (I used to think it was just Nash..but on closer listening it's actually Allan Clarke singing deeply at the start, 'Singing...singing in the sunshine...' & Nash then joins in at; 'Trippin down the highway no cares in my mind...') at the end Clarke remains deep voiced singing the first verse again as Nash gets higher in tone repeatedly singing; 'Wish you a wish...' over and over to fade.......

In mono the sound effects are at both intro and outro (birds singing & pouring water in mono, but flowing water only in stereo), while at the end in stereo the song just fades without any further sound effects, the brass is more prominent in mono to stereo.

Note both the 1989 and 1999 BGO & EMI CD's have the vocals correctly placed in centre position, however that French Magic records CD of 2005 (which at least had nine decent bonus tracks of the period) is a quite different mix with vocals placed on the left stereo channel creating an effect as on several of the earlier EMI albums & even 'Evolution' (1967) stereo mix !

On Nash's  'Postcard' (which IS 'Nash & Nash' singing in duet !) stereo and mono mixes notably differ - seagulls are featured briefly in different places between stereo & mono versions during the song...mostly it's just 'waves' heard during the song in the stereo version - for example differing seagull cries open mono and stereo versions with more of a 'full waves' sound in stereo but these come in before the guitars commence while in mono the instruments begin then waves are heard over the instruments, then at approx 1 min 26 secs in mono a lone seagull is heard where as in stereo there is no seagull but a complete wave is heard ! (- and just who said only The Beatles had alternate stereo/mono versions ??)

Clarke was the main writer of 'Charlie And Fred', again the brass sounds different in power from stereo to mono, presumably due to the mix.

'Try it' 'warms up' sound effects wise longer in stereo but in mono comes crashing in with 'zooming & panning' effects sooner which were probably taped effects , note what sounds like the backwards tape sound of a symbol crash repeated throughout - also  remember early synth's were around back then (The Monkees featured a Moog synth' on their 'Pisces Aquarius...' album that year) and Synth' pioneer Ex-Manfred Mike Vickers was a pal of The Hollies, so it could be an early synth' or mellotron etc  - Tony's guitar solo is made more prominent in stereo, very notably at the commencement of the guitar solo, being kept far more apart from the sound effects & backing instrumentation  which again clearly 'warm up' longer in stereo unlike in mono when they just 'resume' and then come crashing in 'zooming' at full pelt, the sound effects in mono actually dominate over Tony's guitar solo and likewise the effects resume at full blast at the conclusion of the song.

'Elevated Observations ?' - the instruments  'go walkabout' in stereo across the channels (while a master tape flaw can be clearly heard in stereo for a few seconds at about 1 minute 40-42 seconds - attempts to 'mix out' this flaw have later been made on some CD versions (the general mix differs a bit from CD to CD I've noticed both here & on a number of songs)   but that flaw is noticeable on vinyl and on early CD versions more, also the instrumentation receeds here and there in stereo in places, while in mono everything remains constant thus has a more direct sound & the old master tape flaw is less obvious.

Step Inside' is pretty similar mono to stereo tho' the backup guitar lines behind Nash during his solo vocal part ('Don't tell your mother about me...') is a bit clearer in the mix in stereo, plus the vocals are more clearly featured in stereo as the mega loud tambourine is put out on the right stereo channel with vocals mostly central and on the left channel, however the 'one overall sound' of the mono mix duly has the tambourine out in front of the vocals !
  

'Butterfly' has differing effects on Nash's voice presumably due to the mixing, most notably at the ending where in stereo his voice sounds more 'robotic' (a poor word but probably accurate) given an electrical effect than in mono...

in mono there are clear divisions between the tracks while in stereo each track comes in immediately after the preceeding song (the mono LP PMC 7039 had clear divisions in between songs but stereo PCS 7039 had one long play' like 'Sgt Pepper')

The CD versions each sound a bit different to the original mono & stereo vinyl versions too !

[cameron]

Thanks for the input Gee, if I'd have known that people would enjoy this post so much then I'd have put a bit more work in to get every last detail accurate - truthfully I did it all from memory!

I didn't mean to word it to make out that the Hollies never wrote tracks on their own prior to 'Butterfly', I was trying to point out that 'Butterfly' was the first non-cohesive effort from the Hollies ie, there were more tracks written by individual members than those written as a trio.

That longer German mix of 'Dear Eloise' in stereo is also on the 1968 Hansa pressed "Hollies Greatest Hits" and it appears on the Polydor CD release of 'Butterfly'.

I heard an interview with Tony that stated that he "fluffed about on a Sitar that I "borrowed" from George Harrison" for 'Maker'. That quote has always stuck in my head because it made me laugh, you can imagine how Tony would say that in his ever so slightly slightly sarcastic manner! I've no idea where or when the interview was from though. It was on the radio once if I remember rightly. I never even knew about the Indian musicians though, perhaps Bobby is right then as he can remember every last detail about the Hollies' career! I've known Tony to mix some details up and tell the same story a different way more than once, so who knows...

A hollowed out drum makes more sense than a bin - that was just a quote from Bernie: "I remember Graham recording a vocal for [Wishyouawish] with a dustbin over his head... I do remember seeing him with this thing on his head and being vaguely amused"

I never knew about the different mix of 'Wishyouawish' on the Magic Records release - I'll give it a listen in more detail!

I did once run 'Try It' backwards and it has backwards guitar loops too - a pedal (to give it the correct musical term) over the verses is reversed with the drum loops. Quite pushing the boat out for the time! I don't even think the Beatles had used instrumental loops at that point! They had on the early versions of 'Tomorrow Never Knows' but the released version only contains sound clip loops that fade in and out. I thought it could be a synthesiser but again, the Beatles were two years away from using one so it seemed unlikely to me that the Hollies would use one. Especially after the Monkees' "Daily Nightly" was the first commercial synthesiser track and had only just been released before 'Butterfly' and was played on one of only three Moog Synths in the world at that time!

I totally forgot about the tape flaw in 'Elevated Observations'! I have noticed that before and you're right, attempts have been made to cover it up on CD releases but it's fairly obvious on the original LP.

All the versions differ - for me the true way to hear 'Butterfly' is the original UK stereo pressing with the bass boosted as that was how I first heard it. 'Dear Eloise' absolutely blows my mind on vinyl, but it is a bit weak on CD.

Thanks for your contributions, I love adding to my knowledge about this album!

[dirtyfaz]

Thanks Knut. Thought that must be the one but was just making sure you guys were talking about something I was not aware of.

[dirtyfaz]

There are many variations in Hollies songs issued around the world in addition to variations in mixes. The most obvious one at the time of the original release in vinyl of “Butterfly” was the difference in placement of effects in the mono and stereo versions. The US “Dear Eloise/King Midas in Reverse” was issued around the same time but their release mostly contained mixes without these effects. I would guess that either the US didn’t like the UK mix or were provided tapes prior to those effect being added for the UK version.

Here is Side 1.

1. Dear Eloise
Stereo variations.
The British cassette/CD “Compacts for Pleasure” and CD “Special Edition” has the stereo reversed.
The German “Butterfly” and several compilations @ 3.13 contain the entire intro as the outro instead of the edited intro with 7 seconds of the harmonium deleted and commencing at the vocals. The main section of the song fades completely before the outro and there is approx 2 second pause before the complete intro starts again.
Canadian LP 20 “Greatest Hits” @ 2.20 is an edited version. Faded earlier than the main section finishing and missing the outro.
German CD “Listen to Me…Hollies Best” @ 2.34 has the entire outro missing.
US CD “Epic Anthology from the Original Master Tapes” has spoken ‘Dear Eloise RS1’ before intro.
The 1991 Ron Furmanek remix “30th Anniversary Collection” has the music track centered and the vocal on the left and right stereo channels. This version also appears on the French Magic Records “French 60s Collection Vol 2”.
The 1999 stereo remaster has 3 seconds in the main section before the bass track? is turned up.
Mono variations
During the middle eight Nash’s vocal are mixed more up front than Clarke’s plus there is more reverb (the 'ba-ba'ba'ba.' bit)
UK mono/stereo CD mono version has a bad at edit start of song and the change from main part of song to outro. This was sloppy and should have been checked before issuing.

2. Away Away Away
As Cameron says the mono and stereo are virtually the same. The mono has a slightly longer fade.
The problem with the clipped start on the Magic Records “Butterfly’ is they just used the UK CD for their source of the track and because the track separator was in the wrong place they got it wrong. They used this version again on the CD “Featuring Graham Nash”.

3. Maker
The original US vinyl LP “Dear Eloise/King Midas In Reverse” in both mono and stereo are the same length but have 10 sec of sitar edited off the intro and have the same fade as the stereo version. The German “Butterfly” stereo version is the same as the US version.
The acoustic guitar recedes fast and is thus minus power in stereo (going into the background behind the sitar), but it keeps more prominence in mono (Thanks Gee).

4. Pegasus
A couple of countries (Germany, Japan) issued on vinyl this track without the horse effects at the end of the track and it fades a little earlier otherwise this track is very similar in mono and stereo. The effects less track appears on The German CD issue of “Butterfly”.
The original mono LP version is slightly shorter due to a poor fade. The stereo version fades nicely.
The track was left of the US “Dear Eloise/King Midas in Reverse” vinyl LP.

5. Would You Believe
Basically the same in mono and stereo.

6. Wishyouawish
The US vinyl “Dear Eloise/King Midas in Reverse” LP has no effects on both the mono and stereo versions. The German “Butterfly” is the same as the US version. They are a little shorter.
The UK mono has running water effects at the start and end of the track but the stereo only has the effect at the start of the track. This makes the mono version longer. The bird sounds on the mono version are missing on the stereo one.

What's this about the different mix of this track on the Magic Records version of "Butterfly"? Seems the same as the UK stereo only faded a couple of seconds earlier.

[dirtyfaz]

Here is side 2.

7. Postcard
The US vinyl “Dear Eloise/King Midas in Reverse” LP has no effects on both the mono and stereo versions. This makes these tracks shorter. This track is sped up.
The UK mono/stereo are different, The mix is the same except for the effects. The stereo has longer effects before the guitars commence making it slightly longer than the mono version. The effects are in different place in each version.

8. Charlie And Fred
The US vinyl “Dear Eloise/King Midas in Reverse” LP has no effects on both the mono and stereo versions. This makes these tracks shorter. The a capella sections at the start and end of the track seem to have more prominent echo.
The UK mono and stereo versions are similar in length and effects.
The original version has an audible 1 at start of the track. This seems to have been removed for the mono/stereo reissues and is missing from the French CD.

9. Try It
There is an alternate mix of this track issued in mono in Australia (45 Bside) Mexico (EP) and possibly a few other countries. I seem to recall that this was issued in the US and Germany as 45 bsides as well but I will have to dig them out and listen.
The mono LP “Butterfly” version is slightly longer than the stereo. The effects are slightly different in each version.

10. Elevated Observations.
The Australia 45 B-side has the wind effect missing that is on the original mono LP version.
The German LP& CD “Butterfly” contains the double version of this song with slight differences. It is actually two mixes of the track with a slight pause between. The 2nd version may be the stereo version of the Australian single as the wind effect is missing here as well. The distortion in the right channel in the first version @ 1.40 is missing from the 2nd version. The vocal seem louder in the second mix. Otherwise both the mono and stereo versions are fairly similar.
The US CD “Dear Eloise/King Midas In Reverse” as attempted to minimise the distortion by fading out the right channel at that spot.

11. Step Inside.
.Both the mono and stereo versions of this track has a similar mix and length.
Some stereo version have an audible 4 as song starts.
I can’t any more than Cameron & Gee have expressed about this track.

12. Butterfly
Again similar in mono and stereo and I can’t add any additional information to what Cameron & Gee have express.

Just a couple of points of interest about the issue of the “Butterfly” LP. EMI certainly did an extremely poor effort with their mono/stere reissue of this album. Track markers in the wrong place and poor attempts to correct some thing.
Sundazed Records in The US did issue “Dear Eloise/King Midas In Reverse” but they got all the tapes from EMI UK and were supplied the correct UK mixes. They should have source the original US tapes from EPIC and used that mix of the album as it is vastly different in mix, track order and even track listing. They did include all the tracks from both the UK and US version of the album.

[gee]

Great posts Guys ! - between us we are getting a much better picture of 'Butterfly' which has to be one of the greatest 'forgotten classics' of the sixties (along with The Four Seasons 'Genuine Imitation Life Gazette' etc)

Quite rightly famous sixties albums like; 'Pet Sounds', 'Revolver', 'Sgt Pepper', Ogdens Nutgone Flake', 'The Who Sell out', 'Something Else By The Kinks', 'Village Green Preservation Society', 'Days of Future Passed', 'Bee Gees First','Horizontal', 'Piper At The Gates of Dawn', 'Mr.Fantasy', 'Headquarters', 'Pices Aquarius Capricorn & Jones Ltd', 'Odyssey & Oracle', 'Music in A Dolls House', 'S.F.Sorrow', even the (then) controversial 'Their Satanic Majesties Request' etc, have all been 're-appraised', had Deluxe CD versions, in depth articles on them etc...yet both 'Evolution' and 'Butterfly' have never been properly appraised or had 'Deluxe' versions

- we STILL have a naff mix of 'Evolution' and EMI's mono & stereo CD of 'Butterfly' has the mis-mastered intro to 'Dear Eloise' !

The Hollies three self composed gems from 1966-67 stand up as much as anyone else's classic albums of that period as Allan Clarke said :
 'I'm very proud of those albums, they are as good as anything from that time...'

EMI never seemed to be that bothered tho' and hardly fell over themselves to promote them much (despite 'Evolution' being Radio Caroline's 'Album of the week' and given a big plug by Kenny Everett)

Re that master 'blip' on 'Elevated Observations ?' I think it may only be on the stereo master as the mono version sounds o.k. - they might have only bothered to fix the more common (then) mono version as with other Hollies & Beatles etc errors or flaws on tracks...


Cameron, I take your point re 'Butterfly' being their first totally 'solo' & 'duo' penned album of songs being put under the team composing banner, as opposed to just the odd solo song earlier included on albums 

I believe Allan Clarke was back under the hollowed out drum again - sounds kinky ! - for 'Marigold' (which does sound like it) and I was told for one of the hits too but I can't think which one....anyone have any ideas re that ?

At a Hollies fan convention in the 90's  a mate of mine offered his copy of 'Butterfly' to Allan Clarke to autograph - 'Oh That's Nash's album !' Allan replied...which seemed rather sad and  self belittling (as he also was in the LTAW DVD interview later !) and the fact Allan later praised all those albums up in the Radio 'They Ain't Heavy...' docu, then the fact that Clarkey penned songs re astral travelling and higher levels etc ('Try it', 'Elevated Observations ?') giving lie to his 'I'm just a beer & skittles man' remarks....suggest a guy with serious self doubts !
  

re the sitar on 'Maker' - I too had always thought it was Tony Hicks (maybe as George Harrison in The Beatles, Brian Jones in The Rolling Stones,  & Justin Hayward in The Moody Blues were all guitarists who played the sitar too) - They do contradict both each other AND themselves at various times !

I've asked Bobby Elliott (& re the sound effects on 'Try it') - IF Bobby has time & he can remember - over 45 years back ! - I'll let you know if he replies...


MY own strange tale re stereo 'Butterfly':
I originally only got 'Butterfly' in mono back in the sixties having a mono record player, and then it never occurred to me there could be mono to stereo variations (Hollies, Beatles, Shadows, even Bee Gees, Traffic etc) thus it was the mono 'Butterfly' I knew & loved for years and never thought about getting it in stereo at the time, and later the UK album was 'deleted' when I got my first stereo record player (much to my annoyance !)

Then one day in 1973 I went into my local HMV shop and was surprised to find a pristine STEREO version of 'Butterfly' in The Hollies section - I bought it & looking at the record was surprised to see it was 'one long LP' unlike the mono version which had twelve distinct tracks - also it was 'yellow/black' old sixties label design (by 1973 the seventies 'silver box' Parlophone label had been featured for about four years)

The manager (a guy I knew well) told me a tale...apparently a few years earlier there had been a break in at an EMI storage plant & Police had recently seized both the villains and found their haul including old records they had nicked over several years - the case had been resolved in court thus the haul was given back to the owners EMI...who duly sent the 'old but pristine' stock out to their shops (typical EMI after any money !) - hence ONE copy only of a then deleted mint 1967 stereo 'Butterfly' with it's notably thicker vinyl and sturdy sleeve (!!) turned up in my local HMV in 1973...!

how odd (& lucky) was that...? (playing it I immediately noticed how much better sixties thicker vinyl albums sounded than the then current thinner vinyl modern albums of the time were....)

[cameron]

Wow Gee, loved reading that story about your discovery of the mint 'Butterfly' LP! My story is far less romantic than that, I bought it on eBay! haha. 'Butterfly' was immediately deleted in 1968 due to its poor sales. It never made it to a 1969 pressing (still Y&B but no KT tax code) or the silver box pressings UNTIL 1978 when EMI repackaged it and re-released it as a silver box pressing but still using the same 1968 stampers! It's quite a thick pressing too. I had a fully autographed copy of this reissue (minus Graham's autograph) but regrettably I sold it when I was a bit strapped for cash. I've still got my completely mint original 1967 stereo pressing though!

About the "blip" on 'Elevated Observations?' - it doesn't sound in mono because with mono it was easier to hide flaws and edits in the recordings. To me, that's why mono is inferior as it's trying to cram too much into once space. If they can hide damaged tape and slices so well in mono, what else is being hidden in the mix? A classic example is the new stereo mix of 'Pet Sounds' - I don't know anyone who prefers to listen to the mono mix (other than nostalgia and on principal because of Brian Wilson preferring mono) now that that wonderful stereo mix completely opened up the album for the second time - it's like discovering the album all over again. It's so clean and beautiful that you can hear every part of the complicated backing tracks and pick out every single vocal harmony - also it has the benefit of being mixed with modern technology, so is more sonically pleasing than a mono mix from 1966 could possibly be! But mono vs. stereo is opening up a whole other can of worms! Perhaps another time...

I think it would be nice to remix 'Evolution' in the same way. It won't be such a wide stereo image as 'Pet Sounds' as that was recorded on eight track, but a new stereo mix of 'Evolution' should be no worse than the remixed 'Help!' and 'Rubber Soul' CDs from 1987. It may even sound as fresh as the stereo remixes for the recent Kinks reissues - they really do sound stunning! The quality is so good that you'd be forgiven for thinking that they were recorded yesterday!

Anyway, I digress.... re the hollowed out drum being used on one of their hits - I believe it to be 'Gasoline Alley Bred'; or at least that's what song sprung to mind as soon as I read your comment. Listen carefully to that 'close' mic effect on the track and you'll see what I'm getting at.

I think Graham Nash is slowly coming around to really appreciate the Hollies. He's said all sorts of horrible things about them in the past to try and distinguish himself from the bubblegum pop world of the Hollies to the "more serious" world of CSN. But I think the 2010 RRHOF induction was a real turning point as Graham has, for the first time in years, he has put a Hollies song back on his live set with David Crosby (usually 'Bus Stop', but 'King Midas In Reverse' has been known too), so Graham's gaining a lot more respect for his old band and I think now that Allan is too. Now Allan has left the Hollies, he's had chance to reflect on their career and appreciate it. I don't believe that Tony and Bobby think in the same way at all. I read an interview with them both in 'Shindig!' magazine a few years back, and Bobby says about releasing unreleased tracks: "there's nothing left worth having". Bobby and Tony are in charge of what gets reissued and released, and they don't think highly enough of themselves to want to push to get better releases out there. But I think Graham and Allan, given their different prospectives, may step in and try to sort this one out for us!

I think EMI should bite the bullet and go for a major reissue project - or the Hollies Ltd. should lease the recordings to another company to do it for them: after all, EMI have no obligation to undertake such a project, which I think is half the problem. People would buy them - to this day Hollies CDs do still fly off the shelves. I've always been lucky that my local HMV stocks as much of the Hollies' back catalogue as EMI still distribute and the albums are all cleared out within a couple of weeks. I also spoke to a guy in a record shop in Manchester and he told me that: "you're lucky if a Hollies album sits on the shelf for a day, people still love them and whenever someone wants to sell me a Hollies record, I'll never say no as I know I will never have trouble selling it". I see that the most recent project, "Radio Fun" had quite decent sales too.

Finally, there's one thing I'd love to know about 'Butterfly' - did Graham have a hand in the stereo mix? I know artists used to sit and help mix into mono, but Graham was always something of an audiophile according to many of the period articles about the Hollies, and I assume he was more into stereo as he insisted that the live backing tracks for their stage shows were in full stereo. He mentions on the LTAW DVD that "once you start selling millions of pieces of plastic, they can't tell you what to do" in reference to touching the mixing desk. I've always assumed, because the stereo mix of 'butterfly' is so good, that Graham helped to create it. Does anyone have any info or ideas about this?

[gee]

Rarities...?

The line 'There's NOTHING left worth releasing....' is a standard bleat - they said that after 'Rarities' in November 1988...!!

...and look how much strong material has surfaced since then...!

Possibly the 'Nash era' has been covered re studio recordings - Tim Chacksfield for EMI told me at the time of 'Clarke, Hicks, Nash Years' CD set that nothing else was left of the studio recordings that was in a releasable state - tho' whether this meant EVER or just at that time is not clear

I still would like to know what 'state' the 1968 Nash version of 'Survival of The Fittest' is...? (it's listed as being completed in the session listing)

re Live material we know the December 1966 Stockholm Sweden concert and the full May 1968 Lewisham Odeon plus TV performances of that era  DO exist...thus a sixties Nash era set, and indeed also a later Sylvester era Live and TV soundtracks  set OUGHT to be possible...yes ?

plenty of Sylvester era unissued tracks are in their back catalogue too - 'Wings' (1970 version), 'Father Machine', 'Salvation Band', 'Is it True ?', an unnamed song, 'Get Up', 'I'd Like To Be that Man', 'Harlequin' (Gary Brooker vocal), 'No More Snow on Heather Moor' (Bernie Calvert Instrumental), 'Born To Run' (possibly only with a 'guide vocal')...add on a few 'Non UK' tracks like; 'Nothing Else But Love', 'Your Eyes', the 1991 Live 'Another Night'(issued by EMI Germany), plus 1982 Mainz Germany & Magnum Centre Irvine, Scotland concerts etc.... and a later 'rarities 2' set with Clarke, plus Nash/Sylvester/Coates ought to be possible...

I'm told no other 'Rickfors era' tracks are useable but again COULD these be made releasable if studio time (& money) were spent on them...?

'Butterfly':
Graham Nash might well have got involved in the mixing part, especially on his own songs, but details are so scarce & sadly figures such as Ron Richards, Peter Bown etc are no longer with us...(we really DO need a proper Hollies book !)


Gasoline Alley Bred:
re 'Gasoline Alley Bred' - yes Cameron I agree that is possibly a contender for the 'hit sung in the hollow drum' (!) as Clarke's voice does seem a bit 'treated' (I assume LCW wasn't it & that just 'echo' was put on Clarke's voice ?)

I do know that Bobby Elliott wasn't too happy re GAB final 'mix' as he felt the drums were made far too lightweight & devoid of power on it, and were put too low in the mix (he had a valid point even tho' we can hear everything he's playing on it), plus it's very 'tinny' sounding I think with a notable 'buzz' on the sound early on a few times as Tony or Terry (or both) strum their backup guitars (as if one or two of them were stood too near a microphone etc) , while I always felt vocally it wasn't quite mixed as clearly re the vocal harmonies as it could have been, (notably when Clarke-Hicks-Sylvester vocally combine), yet curiously the ending harmony of just Tony & Terry repeating 'Gasoline Alley...' over & over together sounded fine, but the three part harmonies (to me) sound a bit 'distant' & I BET they actually sang it far more powerfully in the studio than we hear on record (??) - bear in mind it was the first stereo single in 1970 which might be relevant...?


Pet Sounds:

Brian Wilson being deaf in one ear is why he mixed it in mono back in 1966 (incredible that he could aurally 'imagine' that sonic landscape in his head & write those arrangements, then get them performed to perfection under his direction...when he could NOT hear true stereo - shades of the deaf Beethoven !!)

In stereo Brian sings the vocal bridge on 'Wouldn't it Be Nice ?' that Mike Love sang on the mono version

while I believe - without checking my CD - Carl sang all of 'God Only Knows' in the stereo mix, while on the original mono (& hit) version after singing the beautiful Lead vocal a totally fatigued Carl was 'sent home' by Brian thus is absent at the conclusion, and Brian suddenly takes over the Lead vocal - where the song pauses at the conclusion  then Brian sings; 'God only knows what I'd be without you...' with Bruce  backing behind repeating; 'God only knows what I be...etc' and behind Bruce's voice a falsetto Brian slowly echoing; 'What I'd be without you...' - just those three voices feature on the vocal climax & fadeout....The Beach Boys in full only appear harmonising on the central vocal part ('Ah Ah'...Ba Ba Ba Ba...' etc)

[cameron]

I'll make this perfectly clear (so no one gets too upset!) - when EMI says that a song is "not releasable" they mean that it is not mixed down from the session multi-tracks. Today, this costs EMI an awful lot of money as the reel-to-reel tape machines cost an awful lot to maintain and need a qualified operator to use them. They are completely on another level compared to any consumer reel-to-reel recorder that you'll ever come across. Abbey Road has an amazing selection of vintage machines still in use today that would cost even more to mix down on. I believe on all modern tape mixdowns, they import each track of the master to Protools to mix it down digitally, which again, is time and money. But yes, all these unreleased tracks, unless otherwise specified, are complete - just not mixed down.

Definitely yes to a live set. There's plenty of stuff still to come out of the woodwork and goodness knows what else there is out there that we don't even know about! The Yugoslavia concert that came out a few years back was a real surprise! Who knows what else there is?

Back to 'Butterfly', I think we do nned a book... or at least new CDs with liner notes. I find that Hollies CDs generally have no liner notes to speak of. The best we've had was the book in the 'Long Road Home' boxset. I'd love to know if Graham mixed 'Butterfly'. So many things that have been intimated make me think that he did. Even Allan's comment: "that's Nash's album" makes me think this too.

I think that it's Gasoline Alley Bred. LCW is just echo, but a lot more echo than you'd normally put on a track. Apparently there were clashes with Ron Richards over that. I can understand why Bobby wasn't happy, I've always thought that his drums were mixed well back. It's got quite a weak stereo mix. I think they should have stuck with "less is more" - too many effects, compressors and odd balancing with the track. I like how Tony's vocal is quite forward in the mix though - it rarely is and I don't know why because he can sing and his voice does really add to the harmonies of Nash and Clarke. Listen to Ron Furmanek's mix of "Man With No Expression" and the difference between this mix and Tony's 1997 mix 9among other things) is that towards the end of the track, Tony's lower harmony is really brought forward in the mix and I think it sounds great. It's completely buried on Tony's mix.

Re 'Pet Sounds',
It's common misconception that Brian mixed to mono purely because he was deaf in one ear - he's stated many times that this has nothing to do with it (he also sat in on the stereo remixes and approved them), but his idea with mono was that he could accurately get across his vision without it being altered as, of course, you can quite easily not set up a stereo reproducer correctly to alter the sound of the recordings. And also he felt that radio was hugely important (he idolised Spector, who was a pioneer of great sounding mono mixes), and of course all radio back in the 1960s was mono.

There was a CD release of Pet Sounds in 2003 or something (after the initial CD release in the late 1990s) which extracted Mike Love's vocal from the mono mix and put it back in to 'Wouldn't It Be Nice', but Carls vocal is still missing from 'Wouldn't It Be Nice'.

Could talk about Pet Sounds all day though! Such an interesting album! Thanks for your thoughts

[dirtyfaz]

Had a listen to the German Hanse "Try It". It is the same as the original mono version. I can't find my copy of the US version but I seem to recall it is the same as the Australian one. If someone has the US copy maybe they could listen and confirm this for me. I found a NZ Parlophone copy of "Jennifer Eccles/Try It" when looking for the US copy. I played it and it is the same version as the alternate issued in Australia. That makes sence as Oz and NZ release were very similar back in the day.

[gee]

Going a bit off thread topic re Cameron's point on Brian Wilson's hearing & his true ability to 'mix' into stereo - I've read various contraditory things (as is the case in most Group's stories !) about how much Brian could (or would) do etc...

It's noticeable that after the mono only first album 'Surfin Safari' (1962) the next few; 'Surfin' USA', 'Surfer Girl', 'Little Deuce Coupe' (all 1963) plus 'Shut Down Vol Two' and most songs on 'All Summer Long' (both 1964) TRUE stereo versions were issued with vocals & instruments on stereo channels albeit very basic stereo on occasions - these were albums that after 'Surfin' USA' (credited as produced by Nick Venet) that Brian Wilson himself produced....presumably with Capitol records top recording engineers able to help Brian mix into stereo if he did have any  problems (bearing in mind by 1964 they were probably the biggest group in the USA and had by then broken big in The UK too)

However as his music becomes more complex from 'Beach Boys Today', then the very musically imaginative if still set to teen fun lifestyle lyrics  'Summer Days (And Summer Nights)' (both 1965) into the more mature & complex  'Pet Sounds' (1966), 'Smiley Smile' (1967), 'Wild Honey' (1967) none of those five studio albums had a 'proper' true stereo version at the time - Capitol's ghastly 'Duophonic' fake stereo being utilised on the 'stereo' versions besides the mono versions.

'Friends' (1968) by which time Carl Wilson had became more involved behind the scenes (having taken over as mainman/anchorman for the band after Brian's 'breakdown' & retreat from public eye) & a sudden notable increase of the rest of the group as songwriters saw a true stereo version of a latter period sixties Beach Boys album appear...

so it begs the question WHY that 1965-67 period of key albums we only got a proper mono version of Beach Boys albums...? (during a seminal mid-sixties period when bands like The Beatles, Moody Blues, Bee Gees, Stones, Pink Floyd, Traffic, The Byrds, etc ...and The Hollies of course were first beginning to properly explore and utilise stereo more on their albums, often having 'alternate stereo mixes'or even totally different versions in mono to stereo )

If Brian preferred 'working in mono' (and not due to his hearing problem, which I've read renders him unable to hear true stereo) how come the more simplistic earlier 1963-64 albums did have 'true stereo' versions...yet the more complex 1965-67 albums never did ? (they had a major American record company in Capitol Records behind them, and were not working in a cheapo studio like The Rolling Stones were early on etc...)

the 'fake stereo' sound of those key Beach Boys hits on '20 Golden Greats' didn't do them any favours, and it makes you wonder if the others just let Brian get on with doing what he wanted in the studio...until Mike Love objected to the Van Dyke Parks material for 'Smile' and to a large extent the band fragmented as a proper recording entity in the studio

I always felt 'Sunflower' (1970) was one of their strongest albums, as a songwriting & seemingly more united true band, while 'Surfs Up' (with an original portion of the older 1966 title track featuring Brian in mono) was a excellent more mature beach Boys album, these had true stereo sound and are two of their finest albums in my opinion, even if Brian's role was cut back by his retreat from the limelight, the albums were still full of strong songs & glorious vocals.

Any thoughts on this Cameron....? (or anyone else )

note - there's an in depth interview with the surviving Beach Boys in the latest - September- issue of 'Record Collector' magazine out now, presumably to tie in with the forthcoming 'Made in California' box set..

[Stranger]

Aug 15, 2013 23:26:39 GMT cameron said:

I think that it's Gasoline Alley Bred. LCW is just echo, but a lot more echo than you'd normally put on a track. Apparently there were clashes with Ron Richards over that. I can understand why Bobby wasn't happy, I've always thought that his drums were mixed well back. It's got quite a weak stereo mix. I think they should have stuck with "less is more" - too many effects, compressors and odd balancing with the track. I like how Tony's vocal is quite forward in the mix though - it rarely is and I don't know why because he can sing and his voice does really add to the harmonies of Nash and Clarke. Listen to Ron Furmanek's mix of "Man With No Expression" and the difference between this mix and Tony's 1997 mix 9among other things) is that towards the end of the track, Tony's lower harmony is really brought forward in the mix and I think it sounds great. It's completely buried on Tony's mix.

On Gasoline Alley Bred I was just noticing yesterday how terribly the lead guitar is recorded. It is so weak.

I wasn't aware that Furmanek had done a mix of Man With No Expression. I would love to hear it. What release did it appear on or was it released?

[roots66]

Aug 16, 2013 19:03:41 GMT Stranger said:

Aug 15, 2013 23:26:39 GMT cameron said:

I think that it's Gasoline Alley Bred. LCW is just echo, but a lot more echo than you'd normally put on a track. Apparently there were clashes with Ron Richards over that. I can understand why Bobby wasn't happy, I've always thought that his drums were mixed well back. It's got quite a weak stereo mix. I think they should have stuck with "less is more" - too many effects, compressors and odd balancing with the track. I like how Tony's vocal is quite forward in the mix though - it rarely is and I don't know why because he can sing and his voice does really add to the harmonies of Nash and Clarke. Listen to Ron Furmanek's mix of "Man With No Expression" and the difference between this mix and Tony's 1997 mix 9among other things) is that towards the end of the track, Tony's lower harmony is really brought forward in the mix and I think it sounds great. It's completely buried on Tony's mix.

On Gasoline Alley Bred I was just noticing yesterday how terribly the lead guitar is recorded. It is so weak.

I wasn't aware that Furmanek had done a mix of Man With No Expression. I would love to hear it. What release did it appear on or was it released?

It's on the U.S. "30th Anniversary Collection."

[cameron]

Yes, Furmanek's mix was the first official mix. IMO, better than the 1997 mix created by Paul and Tony Hicks and, with the greatest of respect to him, I don't reckon much to the work that Paul Hicks has done for the Hollies - too much clipping and distortion on most of it.

With two very different versions of 'Try It' floating about, I wonder what other songs from 'Butterfly' had early takes and alternative versions. We think of the unreleased songs as being what's left to release that we've never heard, but like with the Beatles' Anthology, the bulk of the rarities of any artist usually take the form of alternative and early versions. I know the Beatles started from scratch in the studio, so there's endless takes available whereas the Hollies were "one take specialists" because they were so well rehearsed, but listen to the differences in those two mixes of 'Try It' - surely there must be some more studio tracks from around that time that could be compiled in an Anthology style compilation? Just a thought...

I think the fact that Brian Wilson liked working in mono is the definitive answer as to why so many Beach Boys albums never got proper stereo mixes. Not only were some of them (such as Pet Sounds and SMiLE) too complex to mix to stereo (because he often synced up two four track tape recorders to make an eight track - another pioneering technique) but he also bounced a lot of tracks down to mono to make more space on the tape. With most of 'Pet Sounds', he recorded the instrumental backing on a four track tape, then mixed this down to mono to track one of an eight track tape to free up seven tracks for vocals alone! Back in those days, especially in America, stereo was being really pushed by Capitol to overtake mono (as producing two mixes for everything as well as different covers was becoming a real headache for them), and "proper" stereo mixes had to have a lot of separation between parts to get a "full dynamic stereo effect", so using a mono instrumental track and panning seven vocal tracks left and right would not have created a satisfactory mix anyway. It would sound duophonic like the stereo mixes for some of the Herman's Hermits albums do which have a mono instrumental track and double tracked vocals separated left and right. It is a proper stereo mix, but to casual listener sounds duophonic, and the idea was quickly abandoned. Luckily, with modern technology, the four track and eight track tapes can be synced together to create a proper stereo mix.

Interesting that you mention 'Sunflower' - if you read the sleeve notes on the original LP, the album was recorded in stereo - ie, two microphones on every instrument and voice panned to the extreme left and right to get a more ''natural'' sound. If you listen, there's not a lot of left and right separation between the instruments, but it is obviously in full stereo and makes for a quite ambient mix I think. I think the idea of recording in this was was eventually dropped because it was significantly more difficult to record like that and used twice as much tape as recording using only one microphone did. I should imagine that it was an absolute nightmare to balance and mix down too. Modern stereo mixes follow this principal now though, natural stereo mixing I think is what it's known as. It creates a more ambient mix than panning left and right to the extreme, which is totally unrealistic of how a band would sound if you saw them live or even watched them record in the studio. As novel as those extreme separation stereo mixes are, and as much as I don't mind them, I'm glad that times have moved on!

Thanks for the info about the Beach Boys interview, I'll look forward to that. Not sure about the Made In California set though, I don't think I like the Beach Boys that much to spend £200 on a boxset! Also, I'm absolutely devastated that the new long awaited Small Faces Boxset is not being released in England due to contractual issues. It's also about £140 to import it too. With these prices, you can see why so much illegal downloading takes place!

[Stranger]

Aug 17, 2013 13:23:40 GMT cameron said:

Thanks for the info about the Beach Boys interview, I'll look forward to that. Not sure about the Made In California set though, I don't think I like the Beach Boys that much to spend £200 on a boxset! Also, I'm absolutely devastated that the new long awaited Small Faces Boxset is not being released in England due to contractual issues. It's also about £140 to import it too. With these prices, you can see why so much illegal downloading takes place!

To be fair it is currently 80 something pounds on Amazon.co.uk, I managed to preorder it for 67. It's not cheap but it's not that bad either.

Interesting on Man With No Expression, I was sure it wasn't released until Tony "completed" it for At Abbey Road.

[cameron]

Wow, that has come down in price! Although when I found out about it, it was long before it was on Amazon. Maybe I might invest in it then, plenty of new material. I desperately wanted the Small Faces boxset, it has the first official release of their Newcastle gig in 1968 on it. Butchered versions of the recordings were released on 'The Autumn Stone' LP in 1969 but they were heavily enhanced and edited. The new release has the concert in its original form. But still, £140 for four CDs?!

The track that Tony completed at Abbey Road in 1997 was 'Schoolgirl'. He added the lead guitar part. You can hear which parts he added because the song itself is in mono and his overdubs are in stereo. 'Man With No Expression' was completed in 1968 (strangely, in the same session as the 1968 remake of 'A Taste Of Honey'!) but was never even mixed down from the session tape because it was for the infamous follow up LP to 'Butterfly', which of course never materialised. The Hollies were recording using 8-track by this point too. Tony and son Paul mixed it down to stereo in 1997 as EMI has an issue with using Ron Furmanek's remixes. I don't know why, most of them sound great to me. His original mix of 'Man With No Expression' is different from the 1997 "official" mix in a few ways: there's a tambourine part which was mixed out in the 1997 mix, also an organ part over the bit where Nash sings "But I've never, seen, this man laughing..." which again was mixed out in the 1997 mix and Tony's lower harmony vocal is much more prominent throughout the song in Furmanek's mix. Worth seeking out if you can, it's on '30th Anniversary Collection'.